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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK as a newbi to the vegan world I would like to point out the myths/flawed arguments that we should avoid when appealing to the non-vegan crowd, I will explain why they should be avoided, and give effective replacement arguments.
1:The human body cannot digest meat, if we were ment to eat it we would be able to eat it raw like the anamals........ Truth be told the human body digests most raw meats quite well, and many meat eaters (like my former self) perfer to eat raw meats such as raw oysters, raw beef, raw vinison and about twenty different kinds of fish. People know this. If you want to appeal to the unnatural element in eating meat you need look no further then the junk humans taint meat with and the fact that the vast majority of those anamals were fed an artificail diet to bulk them up to unnatural levels of fat. Their caveman ancestors were not eating artifical growth hormones, antiboidics, dyes, preservatives, or injected solutions to inflate the meat like some kind of baloon.
2:All life forms are equal so to cause the death of any anamal is the same as killing a human......This one should not EVER be the first thing a meat eater hears because I promise you any normal adult will instantly take offence, and anything you say afterward is pointless because in his (or her) eyes you just called him (or her) a mass murder and yourself a hypocrite. I have never met the person that would not swat a stinging wasp and neither have they I can assure you. If you want to appeal to their sence of humanity just show them what actualy happens in those meat factories, let them see the pointless long term torture of countless anamals at the hands of a few wicked individuals and I promise you will have the attention of most people, the rest just don't want to know, but even with them you planted a seed of doubt about what they do.
3: Vegans don't have any LDL cholesterol in thier bodies........This myth was told to me by a vegan who claimed to be in medical school, anyone who passed 9th grade biology should know the human body produces it and would in fact die without it. The wounderful truth is that vegans have virtualy no LDL intake so the body makes and maintains it's own natural low LDL level which are almost half that of people who gorge themselves on fatty meat products. No need to fib about this one guys and gals this is the strongest argument out there for a vegan diet.
4: Meat starves the world because we could feed those grains to humans and nobody would go hungry........Ok this one is true and false at the same time. Yes those grains could feed millions of people, but that is not the issue, we as the western world just don't care enough to feed the world. Want proof? Ask anyone who has worked in agraculture (myself included) about the millions of acres that the Government is paying farmers NOT TO FARM!! This is because big buisness wants to keep grain prices high to maximize their profits. So the real issue is not feeding anamals it is corporate greed, linking the meat industry to this corporate greed is no strech of the imagination they have been hand in hand for years. One of those rare occasions where the truth is more evil then the myth.
5: #^@* you! You #&@*ing corpse munching piece of $#(@........Yes the angry vegan approach, nothing screams vegans are all fracking crazy quite like a propaganda fueled zelot cursing you, your mother, and your dog all because you had the nerve to question something he confronted you with. Often information is presented to envoke an emotional responce, but nobody should ever turn that into anger against people with questions and those who just don't know any better. This has happend to me several of times! Never once did I do anything to envoke such a reaction. If you want to sway the oppinion of someone with questions know your material, vegans have more then enough reserch supporting their cause to debate any group.
 

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Well, yeah. Those arguments make me think of new, emotionally charged people who watched a documentary and need as many reasons to stay away from meat as they can get! It's a pretty slippery slope when you make arguments that don't really apply. Not only don't you win anyone over, it makes it harder for yourself.
Getting over that gives you more leverage.
I've never heard the "vegans don't have LDL cholestrol", though. Vegans can have total cholestrol as low as 115. Won't find that from an animal eater.
People need to realize you can be healthy as an vegan as well as an omni. We have evolved quite a bit from cavemen however, so the idea that we digest meat and dairy as well as our ancestors really is a factor. One commonality becoming vegan is the lightness felt in the lower abdomen, as is the quality and quantity of poop!

We don't have the adrenaline. We don't come near having or needing the physical endurance. We don't pound grains with rocks, or need to follow herds. We don't have constantly interrupted sleep mostly exposed to the elements. We have so alienated ourselves from the other animals, we've stepped outside the "circle of life".
To me, the best arguments for being vegan come straight from omnivores arguments against it.
 

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Well, I've heard a few vegans say things like those myths but the people out there doing real vegan education and animal advocacy tend to be better informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oh no doubt, but those trained educators are not the ones that get in your face between classes and tell you what a horrable person you are, that was my first run in with a vegan about 17 years ago. Believe it or not I heard every one of those arguments that I listed just in the past few days, I had one guy a few days ago tell me that anyone who ate raw meat would die from infection. I promtly corrected him and told him that it was common practice especaly with fish and beef, he outright called me a lair. I cannot help but think how shelterd one would have to be to never have seen a sushi bar or ever seen steak tartare before. This would have been uneducated for a child or teen to say but from a biochem major that is just sad.
 

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I think new vegans/vegetarians are most guilty of the in your face thing. I know I was. I was very disturbed about what I found out about factory farms and I really wanted to share it with everyone...it did not go over well. I then became angry that nobody seemed to care and perhaps I became a bit confrontational. I got over it and have actually influenced several omni's to go veg*n. I gave info when asked, went out out of my way to avoid judgemental tones, and provided lots of tasty veg*n treats. I eventually realized you catch more flies with agave nectar..not that I am in favour of enslaving flies.
The only time I become "the angry veg*n now is when I get pushed into a corner and someone won't leave me alone or they spew outrageous lies about meat and they aren't open to a conversation. Oh and if you wave your cheeseburger in my face making dumb noises and laughing after I've already told you it isn't funny.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisMTL View Post

Kachok, sup?
Nothing much, attempting my first vegan soup. I have never in my life tried making a soup without any kind of meat in it, smells good I'll know shortly how it tastes.
 

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^ You've never had miso soup?!
 

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minestrone? tomato? lentil stew? pumpkin? butternut squash? corn and potato chowder? Moroccan chickpea? gazpacho? beet? hot and sour? carrot ginger? sweet potato chipotle?

never?

(and these are yummy ideas BTW
)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Come to think of it I did try Mizo before, but I don't think that is vegan. My soup turned out OK. It did not set the world on fire but for a first attempt I call that a sucess, much like the salad yesterday I ended up eating until I could not eat any more and still felt hungery. I never thought cutting out all anamal products would effect your brains reaction to food like that, really weird. I am going to have to find what else can function as a trigger for that. I know meats and oils are more energy rich per volume, I guess my stomach is not adjusted to vegan volume yet.
 

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^Try quinoa. It's a seed. Cook it the same way you'd cook rice. Then add whatever you want to it (I put Vegenaise, nutritional yeast, and curry in mine). It fills you up, keeps you full, and is a "complete" protein. Yay!
 

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Miso soup, commercially bought, is generally not veg*n. It is usually made with a fish-based dashi, though you can find kelp or mushroom based dashi. Ypu're correct, Kachok, if you got it in a restaurant, it probably wasn't veg*n. Fortunately, you can get straight miso paste in your local Asian market and make your own soup base.
 

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Kachok, I wonder if you realize how limited your knowledge is of what vegans eat! Much more than salads!
Miso is sometimes made with fish stock-dashi. You can get it in many varities at Asian groceries and natural food stores (nfs) Most I've encountered are just fermented soy with either barley, or rice. You can even get a chickpea miso without soy. There is even chickpea tofu.
I've never added meat broth to veg soups when I ate meat. I've always made bean, lentil, split pea, and all vegetable soup without any animal stuff.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post

there is even chickpea tofu.
chickpea tofu?! Where can i find this magical substance?
 

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It's at Mustard Seed Market-a local N.E. Ohio nfs. I've never looked for it, just happened to notice it. I would think Whole Foods would carry it if Mustard Seed does.
I don't even get how it's made. Tofu is coagulated soymilk-could you add the nigiri, or whatever coagulant, to chickpea "milk"? Like soak and grind chickpeas, and simmer and strain, then add coagulant to remaining "milk"? I assumed only soy would form curds.
Next time I cook garbanzos I'm adding a bit of lemon to the cooking liquid to see if that responds like lemon to soymilk.
 

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Kachok, I wish I could give you the cookbook I just bought. It has recipes for vegan cornbread, stroganoff, lemon garlic seitan, and more. Vegans eat way more than salads and soups. You can veganize any dish that you enjoyed as an omni
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post

Kachok, I wonder if you realize how limited your knowledge is of what vegans eat! Much more than salads!
.
yeah, i think somebody will discover lots of pleasant surprises on this challange
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post

It's at Mustard Seed Market-a local N.E. Ohio nfs. I
Sounds yummy. And I live in N.E. Ohio!! I have heard about Mustard Seed but haven't made it there yet.

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