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Originally Posted by Joan Kennedy View Post

AddieB -- Good to hear about the research, thank you for the links. I thought you were talking about the more recent (21st Century) proposals to introduce Asian oysters to the bay. It sounds like there are many reasons to be wary. These days it's a wonder anything survives in there, with all the fertilizer runoff and chicken crap.
Yeah it's a shame, the poor oysters just can't win. The diseases introduced really decimated their populations in a very quick time and all the harm we're now doing to the Bay really prevents them from making a come-back.
 

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"I might be able to lose more weight if I go back to eating fish..."

Can you give evidence? It sounds like you're already trying to rationalize it, because that statement makes no sense. Want to lose more weight? eat cleaner, and jog (cardio), the basics of healthy living.

Don't eat fish Sarah! YOU CAN DO IT!
 

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Originally Posted by Kjesta View Post

awesome sea creatures? Looked at photos and videos of coral reefs, whale sharks, mimic octopuses and underwater caves?
Thanks for informing me about mimic octopuses. I had not heard of them before. Wow are they awesome!


Oh, look at this, you can have one of these awesome creatures all for yourself; a mimic octopus that is all your own; fill a glass box with water, put the Octopus in the box, and show your friends. You own it; you can do whatever you want with it. It's up to you.

It doesn't seem to be appetizing-looking as a snack though.

I think that they are really really awesome. However something about them gives me the creeps though. Same goes for ordinary octopusses. Don't know why. Maybe I was eaten by an octopus in a past life.
 

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Kjesta
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Are they [fish]a bit stupid? Sure!
They may look stupid, but they are not as stupid as they look. Just the fact that they are able to fool you, and make you think they are stupid, even though they are not - that shows how clever they are.

Did you ever see a school of fish swimming. They all turn at exactly the same time. Try to get a herd of humans to do that. Humans can't do that unless they practice and practice. And still, they depend on a single leader saying "face right" or whatever, to cue them in about when to face right. Fish don't have to practice. They get it right away. And they get it without a leader-fish shouting out commands, telling them when to turn, and in what direction. They just all know when it is time to turn, and what direction to turn. Plus unlike human herds, which can only turn simulataneously, at right angles, or at 180 degrees, fish schools can turn at any angle. 10 degrees, 25 degrees - anything. Plus up and down angles as well.
 

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Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Thanks for informing me about mimic octopuses. I had not heard of them before. Wow are they awesome!


Oh, look at this, you can have one of these awesome creatures all for yourself; a mimic octopus that is all your own; fill a glass box with water, put the Octopus in the box, and show your friends. You own it; you can do whatever you want with it. It's up to you.

It doesn't seem to be appetizing-looking as a snack though.

I think that they are really really awesome. However something about them gives me the creeps though. Same goes for ordinary octopusses. Don't know why. Maybe I was eaten by an octopus in a past life.
Octopodes are among my most favourite animals! And mimic octopodes rock my socks. Love them! That poor guy in the glass box looks so sad though, I feel sorry for him
Octopodes really aren't cut out for keeping as pets.

I feel the same about spiders! I think tarantulas are great and they're really beautiful - in a creepy, goosebumps-y, stay-the-fudge-away-from-me kind of way
Like with tigers! Wouldn't want a tiger too close either.

I know fish aren't completely dumb
I just wanted to make the point that even though they're not swarms of little Einsteins swimming in the sea, they're still awesome and deserve our compassion.
 

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This image is amazing.

Here is a video. At 1:48 you can see the cover has been removed by the octopus, and is hanging over the side of the jar, a moment after the octopus has grabbed the crab. Having extracted and eaten the crab, the octopus then decides to explore the inside of the jar.
 

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Fish poop:



Need I say more?


And if you're wondering about weight loss, I didn't lose a single pound when still eating fish. It wasn't until I went full vegetarian that I could lose weight. Fish isn't a weight loss secret, despite what the fishing industry says
I ended up going back to fish for a few months and I ended up regretting my decision, but I had to do it to be committed again to vegetarianism. That's not telling you to do it, but it made me feel nothing but guilt and made my convictions stronger.
 

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Originally Posted by CindyLennyCleo View Post

I haven't been on in a while, I've been dealing with a lot of really difficult stuff in my life lately, but I'm turning to you guys because I really need help!

So, I've been a vegetarian for a year and a half now, and lately I've been tempted to go back to fish.

My reasons against are:
-fish are living too
-The environment (inefficiency of energy transfer between trophic levels)
-The idea of eating a dead animal is, quite frankly, gross

I know that eating fish is bad... but I keep thinking that I might be able to lose more weight if I go back to eating fish...
I'm just really worried I'll go back to fish, and the rational part of my brain knows it's bad, but still...
Do you guys have any advice or ideas?
Thanks, much appreciated,
Sarah
I'd like to give you the perspective of someone who's been through this before. I was a vegetarian from Oct. 2007 to March 2009 -- so about as long as you've been one now. In March 2009, I stupidly, regrettably returned to eating fish. I just last month (January 2011) returned to vegetarianism, and very much wish I had never left. I'll never get back that time period of almost two years, and neither will any of the fish I ate.

I agree with all of the arguments that have been presented, and especially with Werewolf Girl's recommendation to read Eating Animals -- it's got some great sections on fish that will convince you for sure. I just finished it myself actually.

I have the same BMI as you -- I'd like to lose a few pounds myself but eating fish did not help me do so. I felt weird and hypocritical eating them as well and missed being a true vegetarian. I guess the only reason I waited so long to come back was that I thought my friends and family would think I was weird for waffling back and forth on the issue. I know, that's a dumb reason.

The point of this post is not to beat myself up but just to try to communicate to YOU some of the regret I feel having gone over to that other side and come back again. I don't know what's right for you, but it sounds to me like you're a pretty committed vegetarian and if there's any chance you would feel the same regret after going back to eating fish, then I would really recommend that you not do it.
 

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This is a tough decision and one that I've struggled with as well. Keep in mind that most fish have high fat contents (especially salmon and seabass). I am also someone who is very weight conscious and the one thing I've learned over the years of stressing about my weight is that it's not about eating or not eating one thing, it's what you eat overall. If you eat junk (and only you can answer that honestly) then you will continue to have added pounds, regardless if you're consuming even the leanest fish. It's also about quantity. If you eat too much, you will not loose weight.

If you're really taking this seriously, and struggling with the decision, try altering your existing eating habits a little more before you bring fish back in. Look at your food intake and consider how you can reduce or modify. Are you eating mostly wholefoods? Soy products can be full of weird non-food items.

Also, consider upping your protein. Look at vegan powders that offer 20 grams per serving and make a smoothie once a day (add a big fistful of raw spinach to it!).

Your issue with loosing weight is not fish related... it's you related.

Hope that helps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjesta View Post

You can do it! Have you ever gone browsing through the sealife section at wikipedia or just those top ten lists of the most awesome sea creatures? Looked at photos and videos of coral reefs, whale sharks, mimic octopuses and underwater caves? If you haven't, go and do it! And you'll know exactly the beauty of what it is you're protecting by not eating fish. Seriously, I love all animals (even though some I prefer not to come too close to me, thank you very much), but the sea is just this huge, beautiful, fascinating and scary thing that I never would want to see harmed. We understand so little of it, less than of outer space.

Have you watched the video AspireToInspire posted? I knew pretty much everything in it already, but it drove home again just how important it is not to support the destruction of the sea.
thank you for the tips
I am sure I can do it. I can feel progress in not wanting it as much anymore

and yes, the sea world is definitely fascinating! We also know so little about it, which makes it even more interesting
 

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Originally Posted by keishari View Post

I use to have pet fish. I was sad that they died so fast. Even if you want to get a fish pet it wouldn't be worth it anyway, short lived little guys.
It depends on which kind you get. One of my South American Cichlids (close relatives to tilapia, a commonly eaten fish) is six years old. Goldfish can easily live 20 years, sometimes much more.
 

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Caren_in_LA
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This is a tough decision and one that I've struggled with as well. Keep in mind that most fish have high fat contents (especially salmon and seabass). I am also someone who is very weight conscious and the one thing I've learned over the years of stressing about my weight is that it's not about eating or not eating one thing, it's what you eat overall. If you eat junk (and only you can answer that honestly) then you will continue to have added pounds, regardless if you're consuming even the leanest fish. It's also about quantity. If you eat too much, you will not loose weight.
Actually there is no significant evidence that it is about anything else except calories. Makes no difference whether the calories come from fat, protein, or carbohydrates, or from good food, or junk food. Should you eat nothing but junk, or nothing but the best fruits and vegetables, if the junk has the same amount of calories as the good food, then it will have the same effect on your weight. While it may be that some foods may influence your appetite, one way or another, scientific evidence for such effects is lacking. Only you know what you tend to eat too much of, or too little of. As long as you eat the same number of calories, it will have the same effect on your weight, no matter where the calories come from. There are only a few known exceptions. One is, that if you have insufficient quantities of certain nutrients, it may cause a deficiency diesease, which prevents you adequate metabolizing the other nutrients you take in. While this could cause you to lose weight, or cause you to fail to gain weight despite large numbers of calories - it will also cause you to feel terribly ill. The other exception is, if you have a metabolic disorder. For example a thyroid disorder. In this case, you may gain despite moderate calories, or lose despite high calories - but will also feel terribly ill. Another exception is a disorder that prevents you from digesting your food, a genetic disease, a gastro-intestinal order, or a parasite infection that prevents you from digesting and utilizing your food properly, and such a disorder can cause you to lose weight, despite eating an amount of calories that would normally be adequate to maintain your weight. Again - you will lose weight - and feel sick.
 

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Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

I strongly recommend reading Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer. The parts about overfishing and bycatch will put you off for life, we are literally destroying our oceans and killing everything in them. Even tuna and oysters are going extinct. There's one especially disturbing part where he asks you to imagine getting a plate of sushi, if you were to include all the animals that were killed for it it would have to be at least 5 feet across. Also fish can feel pain as much as a cow or a chicken can.

I've never heard any evidence to support that eating fish would help you lose weight anyway, I lost more weight cutting out eggs and dairy than I ever did when I used to eat tuna and salmon.

http://overfishing.org/
Not saying eating fish is ok but you can get fish that is caught/raised sustainably.
 

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You would also lose more weight if you ate more fruit as snacks. You don't really say what you are eating, which makes it hard to see what the real culprit is, and it you are really overeating or having other perception issues about food. Why not make a post of EXACTLY what you ate yesterday, not a made up day of what you typically eat - those tend to be idealized and don't really happen that way. A REAL DAY, would shed light on what problem you might be having.
 

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I think I can understand what you're thinking right now. But I would advise you to consider the reason why you want to go back to eating fish. If it's because it's good, it's a bad reason. It's not a good enough reason to justify death of any animals. Even if, yes, fishes are less cute, don't seem to enjoy our company much and don't make any effort to communicate with us (lol). But this is a completely discriminatory factor. Obviously. Now if it's because you're afraid of not having enough protein, forget it. Beans and lentils give you more proteins than you need.

The choice you made is a very important one. And yes, it's a tough one. But it has an impact and it makes you someone who acts on your convictions.

Hope this helps a lil'. I'm not judging you at all but I think you would feel really bad if you go back to eating fish. I mean, I know now that I would personally feel very guilty and it's a feeling I definitely do not want in my life.

All your efforts are worth it.
 

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Originally Posted by itsveggietime! View Post

You would also lose more weight if you ate more fruit as snacks. You don't really say what you are eating, which makes it hard to see what the real culprit is, and it you are really overeating or having other perception issues about food. Why not make a post of EXACTLY what you ate yesterday, not a made up day of what you typically eat - those tend to be idealized and don't really happen that way. A REAL DAY, would shed light on what problem you might be having.
That would be a pretty short list.
It's not that I'm not losing weight. It's that I would like to lose more. I have an eating disorder. I don't need weight loss advice.
 

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I think the problem is that it's hard to help you across the internet. Eating disorders are really vile things and it's so hard to get rid of them, I think it's difficult to give you the right kind of advice without personally knowing you, y'know
At least I don't know what exact advice to give you, but I'm holding my thumbs for you!

I know this is probably not helpful because I have no eating disorder (or if anything, it's more in the overeating scale of things) but: food is your friend. It really is. It's what makes your body work, it has all those beautiful little amino acids, calcium and iron and whatnot that keep you alive. And no matter how badly you treat it and no matter what kind of **** you're going through at any point in your life, your body will always do its utmost to get you through and it will never complain to you. I hope that you will be able to help it do all of that in the future too!
 
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