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Reasons not to eat sea creatures:<br>
- Most sea creatures feel pain. Read <i>Do Fish Feel Pain?</i> by Victoria Braithwaite for more info on that.<br>
- Regaring the few sea creatures that we're not sure if they feel pain or not: It's likely that they feel pain and it's certainly <i>more</i> likely that they feel pain than that a plant feels pain.<br>
- Eating sea creatures contributes to environmental problems (overfishing, pollution from fish farms, etc).<br>
- The most common methods of capturing sea creatures tends to cause suffering to other animals (aka bicatch).<br>
- We don't need to eat sea creatures to obtain proper nutrition. We can opt for vegan foods instead.
 

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I don't eat oysters, but I do remember the article by the man who said vegans should feel free to eat farmed ones (which is most oysters on the market in the US). I thought the article made some valid points. To his credit, he did <b><i>not</i></b> refer to himself as vegetarian or vegan.<br><br>
Farmed oysters benefit the environment, cleansing the waters they are farmed in. They do not become an invasive species because they can't get out of their enclosures and would-be nonhuman predators can't get in. There is no bycatch, and they do not compete with indigenous sea life for what they eat.<br><br>
I don't eat oysters on principle because they are animals, but I would never try to argue that they suffer, or that eating them causes environmental harm. The known facts just don't support either argument. For me, not eating them is mostly symbolic, with a small dash of just-in-case.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Joan Kennedy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2817994"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't eat oysters, but I do remember the article by the man who said vegans should feel free to eat farmed ones (which is most oysters on the market in the US). I thought the article made some valid points. To his credit, he did <b><i>not</i></b> refer to himself as vegetarian or vegan.<br><br>
Farmed oysters benefit the environment, cleansing the waters they are farmed in. They do not become an invasive species because they can't get out of their enclosures and would-be nonhuman predators can't get in. There is no bycatch, and they do not compete with indigenous sea life for what they eat.<br><br>
I don't eat oysters on principle because they are animals, but I would never try to argue that they suffer, or that eating them causes environmental harm. The known facts just don't support either argument. For me, not eating them is mostly symbolic, with a small dash of just-in-case.</div>
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But oysters from other regions can spread disease. The Chesapeake Bay oysters and suffering from disease problems that were introduced by oysters from asia.
 

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Can you cite your source, please? I live in Virginia and followed the story of Asian oysters being considered and rejected as a way to regrow the ChesBay oyster population. They've been desperate to get some kind of oyster going here since the local population was decimated from pollution and loss of habitat. Are you saying they were used anyway and that they did spread disease to the local oysters?<br><br>
Early on, there were some limited trials of introducing Asian oysters, which are hardier and more disease-resistant than the native ones. But when more far-reaching trials were petitioned for, they were rejected. I think this was not because any disease was introduced, but because they didn't want to risk the unknown. They might have been concerned about any possible disease spreading, but mostly I think they didn't want to risk the new species interbreeding and crowding out the old one if any stray Asian ones escaped the farms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Josh James xVx</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2817940"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
What's more important to you - being a few pounds thinner, or choosing to boycott an industry which causes suffering and massive environmental damage? That's a question, not an attack. I'm tired of being warned and having my posts deleted for "attacking" people. How can a question be an attack? This question serves a serious purpose. It's not about me or the person I'm questioning. It's about issues that affect us all - all of us, including the fish.</div>
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In answer to your question, I'm not sure.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kibbleforlola</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2817952"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Sarah! *glomps* <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hi.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hi:"> Welcome back! Lots of love from Lola, too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"></div>
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Heeeeey <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br>
Give Lola some love for me.<br>
Cindy would give her love, but she's too busy licking her butt as I type. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>CindyLennyCleo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2817783"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'd rather not get into that, that's not what I'm asking and it's a really complicated matter.</div>
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Isn't that kinda central to this whole topic?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Joan Kennedy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818003"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Can you cite your source, please? I live in Virginia and followed the story of Asian oysters being considered and rejected as a way to regrow the ChesBay oyster population. They've been desperate to get some kind of oyster going here since the local population was decimated from pollution and loss of habitat. Are you saying they were used anyway and that they did spread disease to the local oysters?<br><br>
Early on, there were some limited trials of introducing Asian oysters, which are hardier and more disease-resistant than the native ones. But when more far-reaching trials were petitioned for, they were rejected. I think this was not because any disease was introduced, but because they didn't want to risk the unknown. They might have been concerned about any possible disease spreading, but mostly I think they didn't want to risk the new species interbreeding and crowding out the old one if any stray Asian ones escaped the farms.</div>
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<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplosporidium_nelsoni" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplosporidium_nelsoni</a><br><br>
Perkinsis is also a problem, but I don't know that it was introduced by non-native oysters.<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkinsus_marinus" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkinsus_marinus</a><br><br>
ETA: I'll consent that it is not 100% certain that Haplosporidium nelsoni (MSX) was introduced by asian oysters. I just took a class on diseases in the Chesapeake last term and the head of my department does extensive oyster research in the Chesapeake. They believe MSX was brought over by either bilge water or non-native oysters in the Delaware Bay (it later spread to the Chesapeake). However, there is much more evidence for it having been spread by the non-native oysters.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>CindyLennyCleo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2817780"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm asking why I should <i>not</i> eat fish</div>
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<br><a href="http:" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuxl1ogZVqk</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AddieB</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818236"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplosporidium_nelsoni" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplosporidium_nelsoni</a><br><br>
Perkinsis is also a problem, but I don't know that it was introduced by non-native oysters.<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkinsus_marinus" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkinsus_marinus</a><br><br>
ETA: I'll consent that it is not 100% certain that Haplosporidium nelsoni (MSX) was introduced by asian oysters. I just took a class on diseases in the Chesapeake last term and the head of my department does extensive oyster research in the Chesapeake. They believe MSX was brought over by either bilge water or non-native oysters in the Delaware Bay (it later spread to the Chesapeake). However, there is much more evidence for it having been spread by the non-native oysters.</div>
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AddieB -- Good to hear about the research, thank you for the links. I thought you were talking about the more recent (21st Century) proposals to introduce Asian oysters to the bay. It sounds like there are many reasons to be wary. These days it's a wonder anything survives in there, with all the fertilizer runoff and chicken crap.
 

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I am a but struggling with leaving pescaterianism and becoming vegetarian. what helps me is some things that i heard, about fish feeling pain. that their intelligence is higher than i would have thought. also people care about hurting them even less than they care about farm animals so their death has more suffering than that of other animals
 

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I read <i>World Peace Diet</i> and there's a lot in there about the fish industry that I didn't know. Not to mention all of the toxins that are in fish from the water.
 

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Do a little research and get some pet fish. And every time you look at them, you'll realize how wrong it would be to eat their kin.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ira</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818282"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I am a but struggling with leaving pescaterianism and becoming vegetarian. what helps me is some things that i heard, about fish feeling pain. that their intelligence is higher than i would have thought. also people care about hurting them even less than they care about farm animals so their death has more suffering than that of other animals</div>
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You can do it! Have you ever gone browsing through the sealife section at wikipedia or just those top ten lists of the most awesome sea creatures? Looked at photos and videos of coral reefs, whale sharks, mimic octopuses and underwater caves? If you haven't, go and do it! And you'll know exactly the beauty of what it is you're protecting by not eating fish. Seriously, I love all animals (even though some I prefer not to come too close to me, thank you very much), but the sea is just this huge, beautiful, fascinating and scary thing that I never would want to see harmed. We understand so little of it, less than of outer space.<br><br>
Have you watched the video AspireToInspire posted? I knew pretty much everything in it already, but it drove home again just how important it is not to support the destruction of the sea.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vegkid</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818327"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Do a little research and get some pet fish. And every time you look at them, you'll realize how wrong it would be to eat their kin.</div>
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I think people should get companion animals out of a desire to care for them or help them, not for some other reason.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mlp</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818367"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
And buying fish just perpetuates the pet trade, which results in a lot of fish dying prematurely.</div>
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I use to have pet fish. I was sad that they died so fast. Even if you want to get a fish pet it wouldn't be worth it anyway, short lived little guys.
 

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The reason to not eat sea life is so simple, really. Why cause suffering and pain and death when we don't have to and can easily avoid it? We can't ask or even really hope that the world be kind to us, when we knowingly and unnecessarily do something to directly cause so much harm to another creature who is less powerful than we are.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Why should man expect his prayer for mercy to be heard by what is above him when he shows no mercy to what is under him?</div>
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-Pierre Troubetzkoy<br><br>
Also, I really don't see how it would help you to lose weight. There are other ways to get protein.<br><br>
Sorry you're having a hard time <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("><br><br>
You're not fat, but it wouldn't matter to anyone who would care about you even if you were - and I'd much rather be friends or partners with a compassionate fat person than a more self-centered thin one anyway!
 

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I have to ask. Are you a vegetarian just for weight loss or primarily for weight loss? I know I don't know you but what I do know is that obsessing about weight loss when you aren't in need of it seems to me like you have a disorder. I'm not saying this as a mean thing, I'm serious. Maybe you should make peace with food. Read intuitive Eating: A Recovery Book For The Chronic Dieter; Rediscover The Pleasures Of Eating And Rebuild Your Body Image by<br>
Evelyn Tribole & Elyse Resch
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>keishari</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818415"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have to ask. Are you a vegetarian just for weight loss or primarily for weight loss? I know I don't know you but what I do know is that obsessing about weight loss when you aren't in need of it seems to me like you have a disorder. I'm not saying this as a mean thing, I'm serious. Maybe you should make peace with food. Read intuitive Eating: A Recovery Book For The Chronic Dieter; Rediscover The Pleasures Of Eating And Rebuild Your Body Image by<br>
Evelyn Tribole & Elyse Resch</div>
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I've been a vegetarian for maybe 16 months...<br>
I've had an eating disorder for about 6 months. I know I have an eating disorder.<br>
That is not why I'm vegetarian though, I'm vegetarian for the animals.<br>
I realize that eating fish hurts the animals, I just needed a reality check on that.<br>
So, I will not be eating fish.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>CindyLennyCleo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2818435"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I've been a vegetarian for maybe 16 months...<br>
I've had an eating disorder for about 6 months. I know I have an eating disorder.<br>
That is not why I'm vegetarian though, I'm vegetarian for the animals.<br>
I realize that eating fish hurts the animals, I just needed a reality check on that.<br>
So, I will not be eating fish.</div>
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That's good :) I just hope you find peace with food. I can understand that people with eating disorders have a complicated relationship with food and it takes time to find peace of mind with it all but I hope you're taking steps to recover from it.<br><br>
I am an overweight person with a BMI of 38.6 and I'm 5'3" I have yo-yoed all my life and recently going into vegetarianism I have found peace. I feel like food and I are on good terms because I'm giving my body great, healthy food. Even though I'm overweight I feel fantastic and being healthy is more important to me.<br><br>
Hang in there. I hope to see you in a healing process.
 
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