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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

milk is unhealthy, there is no good reason to consume it at all.
Now, that's an unreasonable argument. Milk is definitely healthy; just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk.
 

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Originally Posted by Envy View Post

Compassionate?

Maybe.

Ethical?

Slightly less of a chance.

Cows make more milk than the baby can drink, don't they?
Cows only produce as much milk as is needed for their calf. No more, no less. There is no extra. The same happens with human moms. We produce enough for our infant. It is a biological system of supply and demand, or rather, as much as baby demands, that is how much mom supplies.
 

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Originally Posted by followguru View Post

Now, that's an unreasonable argument. Milk is definitely healthy; just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk.
Milk is healthy for babies of the appropriate species. There are quite a few reasons not to drink it if you are not a baby of the appropriate species. I stick to the ethical reasons, but the health reasons are out there if you research them (though I'm sure some were already mentioned in this thread).
 

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Originally Posted by followguru View Post

Now, that's an unreasonable argument. Milk is definitely healthy; just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk.
Considering that 40-60% of adults are lactose intolerant to some degree or another, this sort of puts the lie to milk being healthy.http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...olerance_N.htm If something makes a large percentage of people have an adverse reaction, can it really be a healthy product? Or does this simply indicate that the balance of people have a 'stomach of iron'.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by followguru View Post

Milk is definitely healthy; just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk.
Thanks for deciding that for me.
 

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Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Considering that 40-60% of adults are lactose intolerant...
This. That's the reason I originally gave up milk. If I had some, within an hour I would be making some very uncomfortable noises in the bathroom. Milk was most definitely unhealthy for me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by followguru View Post

Now, that's an unreasonable argument. Milk is definitely healthy; just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk.
please explain how cow milk is healthy for humans to consume.

also, do you know the connection between dairy production and veal production? something to research if you haven't already.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Cows only produce as much milk as is needed for their calf. No more, no less. There is no extra. The same happens with human moms. We produce enough for our infant. It is a biological system of supply and demand, or rather, as much as baby demands, that is how much mom supplies.
Quote:
The average for a single dairy cow in the US in 2007 was 9164.4 kg (20,204 lbs) per year, excluding milk consumed by her calves.[1]
[1]http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/nass/SB988/sb1022.pdf
 

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Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

also, do you know the connection between dairy production and veal production? something to research if you haven't already.
That has little to do with healthiness though.
 

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A cow will give as much milk as is 'demanded', whether it be ,her calf suckling or a machine that is designed to 'suck' the milk out of her. Most calves these days, are fed a milk replacement because the milk that the baby's mother is making is being taken to feed people. http://www.merricks.com/tech_milkreplacerguide.htm That is, she will continue giving milk until her body requires a rest before the next calf is born (probably a two month rest).

As long as something, calf or machine, is 'encouraging' production' from the cow, she will provide as much as is needed. However, what someone else said here, that cows have been bred for certain traits and giving huge amounts of milk is one of them is also true. And then too in the US, there is the question of the government allowing bovine growth hormone for the purpose of increasing milk production. But obviously those are not 'normal' situations. In a normal situation, an average cow gives as much milk as is needed by her baby and if the human came along (like in the olden days) and took some in a bucket, there was just enough for all.
 

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First:
"
\t\t\t\t\t
Originally Posted by luvourmother \t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t
\t\t\t\talso, do you know the connection between dairy production and veal production? something to research if you haven't already." and then.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

That has little to do with healthiness though.
I guess that depends on whose health one doesn't care about, like the cow's and the calf's. This is so far from a healthy experience for either of them.
 

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Originally Posted by mollycakes View Post

The whole taking baby cows away from momma cow all the time is what gets to me the most. No OP, I'm sorry, but it is cruel.
This.

To keep the supply of milk constant, the cows must be continually impregnated. What to do with all the offspring? What to do with the male dairy cows?

I can see how someone having a pet cow in the backyard and going out to milk it being ethical on an animal welfare level, just the same as having pet chickens and taking their eggs or having a pet dog and milking it when its pregnant. Animal rights, especially an abolitionists approach would argue differently, however.
 

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my comment about learning about veal production was in response to this statement: "just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

That has little to do with healthiness though.
whether you realize it or not, milk is standardly considered a food high in saturated animals fats and sugars, those 2 facts alone show that milk is unhealthy to consume. factor in lactose intolerance and how prevalent it is worldwide (most people are lactose intolerant!), that casein is addictive as well as linked to cancer. drinking milk increases risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer, what's healthy about that????
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

my comment about learning about veal production was in response to this statement: "just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk."

whether you realize it or not, milk is standardly considered a food high in saturated animals fats and sugars, those 2 facts alone show that milk is unhealthy to consume. factor in lactose intolerance and how prevalent it is worldwide (most people are lactose intolerant!), that casein is addictive as well as linked to cancer. drinking milk increases risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer, what's healthy about that????
Not to mention the fact that cows milk is 'designed' to raise a little cutsie baby calf to a hulking bruiser of an animal in a matter of months. It's no wonder North Americans with their high milk product consumption are fat.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Not to mention the fact that cows milk is 'designed' to raise a little cutsie baby calf to a hulking bruiser of an animal in a matter of months. It's no wonder North Americans with their high milk product consumption are fat.
So true! also unusually high prevalence of osteoporosis despite consuming more dairy, milk = not good for bone health.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

Not to mention the fact that cows milk is 'designed' to raise a little cutsie baby calf to a hulking bruiser of an animal in a matter of months. It's no wonder North Americans with their high milk product consumption are fat.
The USA actually has quite a low milk consumption per capita

http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/intro.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselsmom View Post

I guess that depends on whose health one doesn't care about, like the cow's and the calf's. This is so far from a healthy experience for either of them.
No, being dead is far from being healthy.

But we have discussed the effect of milk on the human body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

my comment about learning about veal production was in response to this statement: "just that we've agreed to not harm the cows or any animal for that matter by consuming their milk."
Hmm, didn't he mean that he did not consume milk at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

whether you realize it or not, milk is standardly considered a food high in saturated animals fats and sugars, those 2 facts alone show that milk is unhealthy to consume. factor in lactose intolerance and how prevalent it is worldwide (most people are lactose intolerant!), that casein is addictive as well as linked to cancer. drinking milk increases risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer, what's healthy about that????
Did you even read my posts?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

The USA actually has quite a low milk consumption per capita

http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/intro.html
83.9 USA compared to 8.8 China is a pretty gosh darn huge difference!

Quote:
Hmm, didn't he mean that he did not consume milk at all?
no.

I read your posts and replied to them in detail already.

and im still puzzled as to why you are defending milk (other than just trying to argue)? sure you may not have come out and said flat out that milk is healthy, but disagreeing with me saying it is unhealthy implies that you think milk is healthy. your trying to say milk is not unhealthy, but the not and un cancel out each other.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

83.9 USA compared to 8.8 China is a pretty gosh darn huge difference!
14 countries above.

Including those that which has little problem with obesity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvourmother View Post

no.

I read your posts and replied to them in detail already.

and im still puzzled as to why you are defending milk (other than just trying to argue)? sure you may not have come out and said flat out that milk is healthy, but disagreeing with me saying it is unhealthy implies that you think milk is healthy. your trying to say milk is not unhealthy, but the not and un cancel out each other.
You missed my last post on page 3.

And there are things that is neither healthy nor unhealthy.

Milk has some positive qualities, but as I said, I'm not going to list them on a vegan forum.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envy View Post

That has little to do with healthiness though.
this one?

or this one?
Quote:
i replied to both, maybe go back and re-read the thread.

im really curious to know what is positive about about drinking cow milk and consuming dairy products, too bad you are afraid to tell us, maybe we will learn something new?

as for the list of countries and milk consumption, of course dairy is not the main reason US has an obesity epidemic, it certainly contributes to it but i never claimed it was the main reason. i also did not see any info in that link about osteoporosis, which is the point i made originally.

http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/
http://www.tcolincampbell.org/course...ash=f19269ebbe
 
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