VeggieBoards banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So one big point veg*ns like to make is that meat production is a waste of time, money, land and overall effort because of the fact that you're wasting food on feeding another animals (which in turn won't provide the same amount of food with their bodies). Have you ever actually heard any points against this, other than "we need meat so it has to be done"?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,664 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>GK420</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2941748"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
So one big point veg*ns like to make is that meat production is a waste of time, money, land and overall effort because of the fact that you're wasting food on feeding another animals (which in turn won't provide the same amount of food with their bodies). Have you ever actually heard any points against this, other than "we need meat so it has to be done"?</div>
</div>
<br>
Nope.<br><br>
I've heard hunters say the argument doesn't apply to them since they kill animals that eat wild plants, but that's about it. And since hunters generally do it for sport and also buy animal products at the store as well the argument falls apart pretty quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,342 Posts
Youre expecting a rational counterargument from an omni?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,722 Posts
I'm currently having this debate on a political message board that I frequent. I'm the only vegetarian and there are no vegans. It's been going on for about a week and the biggest critic (a hunter) just recently posted some random bull**** he found on the internet:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">"It is possible that some animal rights activists have taken up their cause because they are emotionally immature and are acting out repressed rage and hatred from emotional wounds from parental abuse or from failed love affairs, seeing the plight of "defenseless animals" as symbolically similar to how they may feel they have been personally treated by a dominating human..."</div>
</div>
<br>
Also:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">"Vegetarianism can be an act of spiritual devotion and greater health, and it can also be an early symptom of guilt-driven suicide."</div>
</div>
<br>
There's also the sudden compassion for plants argument, among others. Good times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I've heard arguments that seem to be to the effect of, "Well, producing your veg'n food isn't much better. Just look at soybeans, and how destructive the agricultural system is for that. So, don't be so high and mighty about how you're saving the earth." And my rebuttal would be pretty straightforward: "Yes, you're right that I'm not outside of that destruction. Nobody can be completely outside of it. But, to the extent that feeding soybeans/grain to animals requires producing more soybeans/grain than if we were vegetarian, eating animals just multiplies that damage several-fold."<br><br>
But, then if I was talking to anybody who knew more than me about agriculture or environmentalism/sustainability (which is a lot of people), I'd expect to get a barrage of questions about, "Well, if you really care about the environment or sustainable agriculture, why aren't you doing XYZ? You're such a hypocrite." And they'd say this even though they obviously don't care about the environment at all. Just because they want to trip me up. People just like to point out other people's inconsistencies and dismantle any unconventional positions, without any regard for the fact that the conventional/default position is usually much worse than the adventurous/uncommon alternative being proposed. It's just like the "but you eat plants" argument. If you care about plants so much, and you think I'm so barbaric for eating them...how come YOU'RE eating them? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br><br>
So, in short...no, I haven't seen anything that rationally/convincingly opposes your argument. But I'm not too familiar with the debates around that. I don't usually toss around environmental arguments too much, just because I'm pretty inconsistent on that front. I don't eat a lot of organic/local food, for instance. And my car only gets 30 mpg--lol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,664 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Spang</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2941821"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm currently having this debate on a political message board that I frequent. I'm the only vegetarian and there are no vegans. It's been going on for about a week and the biggest critic (a hunter) just recently posted some random bull**** he found on the internet:<br><br><br><br>
Also:<br><br><br><br>
There's also the sudden compassion for plants argument, among others. Good times.</div>
</div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br><br>
Sounds like fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,026 Posts
Some omnis argue that pastured animals can be raised on land that can't be used to grow food for humans.<br>
That's true, but practically speaking it rarely happens. Most of the time the land used for grazing animals could be used in other better ways: grow food, provide housing, parks and preserves, etc.<br><br>
Some omnis argue that the food fed to farmed animals is the inedible part of grains (and other plants). They say it can't feed humans.<br>
This is partially true. But lots of the food fed to farmed animals could feed humans instead. Moreover, that material could be used as bio fuel or building materials. Feeding it to animals isn't it's only possible use.<br><br>
Some omnis argue that raising small animals - like rabbits or chickens - in industrial settings is so energy and space efficient that it makes up for any feed inefficiency.<br>
Again, this may be true. But most of the time it ignores the externalities of factory farming: pollution, cruelty, human health risks, etc.<br><br>
I've heard the hunter argument too. There's a point in that. But hunting is not really a practical or desirable option for most people. Furthermore hunting has it's own inefficiencies: time, production of hunting equipment, travel to hunting spots, competition with other predators, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just as I expected, no real valid points from the omnis. Reason I asked this is because I was watching this: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU</a> and some idiot said in response to a supposed vegetarian:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">We're ominvores, thats why. Our bodies process meat and vegetation, and it's preferable for us to eat both. We can survive off of vegetation alone but... damn I would not give up meat unless I was absolutely forced to on pain of survival. humans have raised animals for slaughter for centuries, millenia even - why change a habit that gives us such gloriously tasty food?</div>
</div>
<br>
I mentioned how counter productive this whole process is, and wondered if he might actually bring up any valid arguments against that point. Oh, and of course, you knew at least one cretin told the veg*n to "go hug a tree" and actually said he doesn't care about anything other than what tastes good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Spang</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2941821"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm currently having this debate on a political message board that I frequent. I'm the only vegetarian and there are no vegans. It's been going on for about a week and the biggest critic (a hunter) just recently posted some random bull**** he found on the internet</div>
</div>
<br>
Tell him to cite his sources! How ridiculous! I hate it when people spout nonsense like that, and even worse, some people are also stupid enough to believe it!
 

·
Riot Nrrrd
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
Everything Elaine said.<br><br>
I'd just add that (in the US at least) 'grass fed' beef can legally be fed dry forage (usually alfalfa hay). And raised in confinement.<br><br>
From a post by a grass-fed beef supporter worried about the public's understanding of the term:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">While the new standards don't allow grain feeding, they do still allow feeding of dry forage product (usually alfalfa hay) in confinement, which allows producers to use the same old industrial confinement model, simply with different inputs (organic alfalfa, corn stalks, or other forage).<br><br>
Most of the grass fed, organic beef sold in health <a href="http://www.squidoo.com/definition_of_grass_fed_beef#" target="_blank"><span>food</span></a> stores was finished in confinement and fed hay for months on end, but their advertising still conjurs up images of green grass and open range, so don't be fooled. Check out the producers so you know what you are getting when you buy grass fed!</div>
</div>
<br>
Source: <a href="http://www.squidoo.com/definition_of_grass_fed_beef" target="_blank">http://www.squidoo.com/definition_of_grass_fed_beef</a><br><br>
And here are the standards: <a href="http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fetchTemplateData.do?template=TemplateN&navID=GrassFedMarketingClaimStandards&rightNav1=GrassFedMarketingClaimStandards&topNav=&leftNav=GradingCertificationandVerfication&page=GrassFedMarketingClaims&resultType=&acct=lss" target="_blank">http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams....Type=&acct=lss</a>
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top