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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there I am a wannabe vegan and I have spoken to the seminarians at my college about it and they said that in the Bible it says its ok to eat meat and that we are encouraged to as nothing of Gods is unclean. Though after watching films like earthlings I really question whether all this evil behavior towards animals is accepted and encouraged by God..... I kind of think not but what are you supposed to say in regards to the scripture that tells of eating of all things as nothing is unclean... I'm confused about what to say and also personally what to believe. I would love to think that the God I am so in love with would condemn all of this. Please help if you can.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:">
 

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The issue of the clean/unclean is separate from the ethical problems that we individually may have with eating meat. To my knowledge, the Bible doesn't say we MUST eat meat, only that there is no clean vs. unclean under the new covenant we have with God through Jesus Christ. Being a good steward of the Earth and the creatures in it means that I won't support the torture of animals in factory farms.<br><br>
If you are really struggling with this, I would encourage you to read the passages in the Bible that deal with animals and meat eating specifically. Your interpretation of the scriptures is just as valid as the seminarians' at your college.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for replying... I suppose theres a part of me that wants a concrete Biblical response I can give to these people that says God is against the whole meat thing. But perhaps he isnt. Maybe if people are in the kind of situations where they live in remote areas or whatever its acceptable, I dont know. I just think with the fast food industry and all that other stuff its taken into excess. To a point of imbalance.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ChristineG</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2906808"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Thanks for replying... I suppose theres a part of me that wants a concrete Biblical response I can give to these people that says God is against the whole meat thing. But perhaps he isnt. Maybe if people are in the kind of situations where they live in remote areas or whatever its acceptable, I dont know. I just think with the fast food industry and all that other stuff its taken into excess. To a point of imbalance.</div>
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This may help you: <a href="http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/WJEMT-Jan10.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/WJEMT-Jan10.pdf</a><br><br>
Also, if you find it does help you and you would like to distribute them to others, they are available here: <a href="http://www.veganoutreach.org/catalog/" target="_blank">http://www.veganoutreach.org/catalog/</a>
 

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In the new testament one person is told that it is acceptable for him to eat meat. He was avoiding certain kinds of meat because within the Jewish faith those specific items were considered unclean. He was told that they were no longer to be considered unclean, refraining from those items would have hindered his ability to socialize with gentiles. There are also places in the bible where it is said that all food is considered clean but if someone is offended by it than it is better to refrain from eating meat. In the book of genesis God tells us that man has dominion over the earth and the creatures in it, people have taken the word dominion to mean we are the "boss" "ruler" "authority" but a more accurate translation would be caretaker, protector. Just has a parent has "dominion" over their children it means that the parent has a responsibility to take care of and provide for their children. In the days that the bible was written factory farms did not yet exsist and the animals were, generally, well taken care of. Their are places in the world where people farm because it provides their family with a source of food where money is tight, that is not the case in most western cultures and I believe that God is appalled at the way animals and the environment are treated these days, they are not cared for in a sustainable/ethical way.<br><br>
By the way, I am a Christian and have put a lot of thought into my dietary choices.
 

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That is a difficult thing, dear. Faith sometimes makes things more complicated, doesn't it? I believe that everyone, regardless of faith, should be kind to the earth and all of its people - human and non-human. But then, I am also one of those who believes that all living things have souls. As such, I cannot condone killing a life in order to sustain mine. That is how I look at it. I am no more important than a cow, or a chicken, or a dog. All life is precious. Sometimes it is hard to get others to understand that position. But darling, in all reality, your beliefs are your own - they belong to no one else. And no one else has the right to tell you what to believe, or what to put in your body. Keep that in mind.
 

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The Holy Bible was written by humans, and as such, represents the prevailing attitutes of humans at the time it was written. It has been edited and re-written countless times throughout history to suit those who were doing the editing. The Bible has nothing to do with what should be 'expected' of us by God or Jesus. It is nothing more than a literary work that depicts the various attitudes of the time. That's my opinion anyway, for what it is worth, as a born-and-raised Catholic who attended 16 years of Catholic school. For which I will never forgive my parents. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Digger</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2906985"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The Holy Bible was written by humans, and as such, represents the prevailing attitutes of humans at the time it was written. It has been edited and re-written countless times throughout history to suit those who were doing the editing. The Bible has nothing to do with what should be 'expected' of us by God or Jesus. It is nothing more than a literary work that depicts the various attitudes of the time. That's my opinion anyway, for what it is worth, as a born-and-raised Catholic who attended 16 years of Catholic school. For which I will never forgive my parents. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"></div>
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XD I'm in the same boat, but Christian school rather than Catholic. While I don't consider myself Christian anymore, I do remember the bible saying it was okay to eat meat (in someones (peter???) dream?), I doubt he'd be okay with what is being done to animals now.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ChristineG</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2906784"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm confused about what to say and also personally what to believe. I would love to think that the God I am so in love with would condemn all of this. Please help if you can.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:"></div>
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Genesis 1:29<br><br>
"And God said, "Behold, I have given you every <b>plant yielding seed</b> that is on the face of all the earth, and every <b>tree with seed in its fruit</b>. You shall have them for food."<br><br>
There it is in black and white from the Old Testament. Everything after that is just an accommodation for human weakness.<br><br><a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A29&version=ESV" target="_blank">http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...29&version=ESV</a>
 

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Riot Nrrrd
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Prior to the 1960s (roughly - the 40s is also very defendable) much of the writing on vegetarianism (and other issues - public health and so on) was explicitly Christian. Not all by any means, but quite a bit. Thanks to google books (<a href="http://books.google.com/" target="_blank">http://books.google.com</a>) a good chunk of this writing is easily accessible today.<br><br>
For more modern material (not 19th century!) see the writings of Andrew Linzey (Amazon's Andrew Linzey page: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=veggieboards.com-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FAndrew-Linzey%2Fe%2FB001ITTH4C" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Andrew-Linzey/e/B001ITTH4C</a>). Linzey is a clergyman (Anglican pastor, I believe) and a founder of what became the modern animal rights movement.<br><br>
The material on the Christian Vegetarian Society website might be useful as well (<a href="http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/default.htm</a>). I don't agree with everything they say but as always use what seems right to you and throw away what doesn't. Wikipedia has an entry on Christian vegetarianism. Some of the links might be useful.<br><br>
EDIT: Forgot to mention Christian Vegetarianism Archive (<a href="http://christianvegetarianarchive.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://christianvegetarianarchive.blogspot.com/</a>) - a blog I follow.
 

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I'm not Christian, nor have I read the bible, but one thing you can bring up with them is that fact that cruel factory farms did not exist when the bible was created.<br><br>
This doesn't argue the "shouldn't KILL animals" part, just the "shouldn't be extremely cruel" part, which they might be able to agree with (I.E "God may be fine with us eating meat, but he surely wouldn't approve of unnecessary cruelty and suffering right?")
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Digger</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2906985"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The Holy Bible was written by humans,</div>
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At a standstill right there until God goes on Charlie Rose and confirms/denies contents of that "manual" to end all manuals.
 

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These links might (or might not) be helpful.<br><br><a href="http://www.midnightcryministries.com/seven_reasons_christians_should_be_vegetarian.htm" target="_blank">http://www.midnightcryministries.com...vegetarian.htm</a><br><br><a href="http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/default.htm</a> I think this one was already given, but I can't check from here.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>VenomousX</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2907157"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm not Christian, nor have I read the bible, but one thing you can bring up with them is that fact that cruel factory farms did not exist when the bible was created.<br><br>
This doesn't argue the "shouldn't KILL animals" part, just the "shouldn't be extremely cruel" part, which they might be able to agree with (I.E "God may be fine with us eating meat, but he surely wouldn't approve of unnecessary cruelty and suffering right?")</div>
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I'm not Christian anymore, but I still considered myself one when I went vegetarian a few years ago. The fact that factory farms didn't exist in Biblical times was part of the reasoning I used against eating meat. Almost all meat in the US comes from factory farms, and I just didn't want to have anything to do with that horrible cruelty. I also used to reason that there's no way God would <i>want</i> me to hurt animals. It makes more sense to believe he'd want his followers to treat animals as kindly as possible. (and veg*nism is very possible)<br><br>
I now think it's wrong to kill animals (when it isn't necessary) even humanely, but that's not really important. Like the OP, I was rather confused in the beginning.
 

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Riot Nrrrd
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Just want to clarify that in:<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Prior to the 1960s (roughly - the 40s is also very defendable) much of the writing on vegetarianism (and other issues - public health and so on) was explicitly Christian.</div>
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I was referring to writings in the UK and US (and to an extent France and other European countries). Important to remember there's a whole wide world out there!
 

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How about Leviticus 3:17 "It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that you eat neither fat nor blood."<br>
The eliminates a lot of animal products (and a lot of other stuff)<br><br>
Romans 14:21 "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak."<br><br>
Of course this could all be settled with Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged."<br><br>
Honestly, the Bible says a lot of complete ridiculous things and we shouldn't be basing modern "law" on specific biblical details. The broad overtones I think are solid, be good to other people, help other people, etc.. but there's also a lot of things that are completely irrelevant to modern life and we need to just make our own decisions based on what we know is the right thing to do. We know it's wrong to torture animals for our own pleasures, regardless of whether the bible tells you you can have a steak or not.
 

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You could just as easily find a Bible verse that explicitly promotes rape as one that encourages you to be kind to your neighbor. In fact the atrocities of the Bible are far, far more common than the morals applicable to modern men.<br><br>
Here's what you should really be asking yourself. Would a God who is good or kind or worthy of worship <a href="http://ar.vegnews.org/vegan.html" target="_blank">approve of this</a>?<br><br>
Would a person who is kind, gentle and thoughtful worship a God who does?<br><br>
Would that same good person choose to do what's <i>right</i>, even if the religion of their upbringing was against it?<br><br>
Are you brave enough to be that person?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Josh James xVx</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2907365"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You could just as easily find a Bible verse that explicitly promotes rape as one that encourages you to be kind to your neighbor. In fact the atrocities of the Bible are far, far more common than the morals applicable to modern men.<br><br>
Here's what you should really be asking yourself. Would a God who is good or kind or worthy of worship <a href="http://ar.vegnews.org/vegan.html" target="_blank">approve of this</a>?<br><br>
Would a person who is kind, gentle and thoughtful worship a God who does?<br><br>
Would that same good person choose to do what's <i>right</i>, even if the religion of their upbringing was against it?<br><br>
Are you brave enough to be that person?</div>
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Sorry, off-topic, but isn't that Alec Baldwin's voice in that video? Is he a veg*n? ::Goes a-googling::
 

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Here are some links about Christianity and veg*nism, in addition to the ones previously mentioned.<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion#Christianity" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetar...n#Christianity</a><br><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/larika0/index1.html" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/larika0/index1.html</a><br><a href="http://ivu.org/religion/" target="_blank">http://ivu.org/religion/</a><br><a href="http://vegetarian.vg/VEGETARIANSRELIGION.aspx" target="_blank">http://vegetarian.vg/VEGETARIANSRELIGION.aspx</a>
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Josh James xVx</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2907365"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You could just as easily find a Bible verse that explicitly promotes rape as one that encourages you to be kind to your neighbor. In fact the atrocities of the Bible are far, far more common than the morals applicable to modern men.<br><br>
Here's what you should really be asking yourself. Would a God who is good or kind or worthy of worship <a href="http://ar.vegnews.org/vegan.html" target="_blank">approve of this</a>?<br><br>
Would a person who is kind, gentle and thoughtful worship a God who does?<br><br>
Would that same good person choose to do what's <i>right</i>, even if the religion of their upbringing was against it?<br><br>
Are you brave enough to be that person?</div>
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I love this!!!!! Yes I am BRAVE ENOUGH!!!!!
 
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