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mikie: I have heard (from my linguistics prof) that there is a sort of social "taboo" (that's not the right word) against wearing helmets in holland. It's like if you wear a helmet, that's showing that you're really incompetent at riding a bike...did you find this to be the case?<br><br><br><br>
>>This also doesn't change the fact that you chose the Holland picture specifically because it showed a lot of bikes (but again, no more than I could get in a shot 100 meters from my home any day school is in session) and the San Francisco picture, in residential area with downtown barely visible in the background, because it showed no bikes.>><br><br><br><br>
I think the picture is illustrative rather than part of an empirical argument, per se. And, yes, the US and Holland are different countries. Isn't that what we're talking about?<br><br><br><br>
ebola
 

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Discussion Starter #22
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This doesn't change the fact that Holland and the United States are very different countries and you chose the city to make comparisons too.</div>
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The point is that the two countries are different. That's why I called this thread "compare / contrast." I think it's quite logical that the city I chose for a simple two picture comparison is the one that I live in. I just haven't had the time to compile a report that compares all cities in Holland and the United States that have populations of over 50,000 people. My deepest apologies! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This also doesn't change the fact that you chose the Holland picture specifically because it showed a lot of bikes (but again, no more than I could get in a shot 100 meters from my home any day school is in session) and the San Francisco picture, in residential area with downtown barely visible in the background, because it showed no bikes.</div>
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That's False (read on.)<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Pasta>Cruelty</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The SF one shows a place/time where there are many cars...</div>
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If you look again, you'll note that there actually <i>aren't</i> that many cars (unless you're counting the parked ones.) Having too much space for too little cars is also a problem. It takes large amounts of money to pay for such large amounts of unnecessary construction and upkeep. In the picture, the area is strictly residential, and a street size that would be better for the area would be a two-way two lane street, when in fact, you could probably park six or seven cars side by side inbetween the parked ones!<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Pasta>Cruelty</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
...the Holland one shows a place/time when there are many bikes, but the areas aren't always exactly like that.</div>
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In Holland, it actually is always like that. The photo, if I must be so picky (and I didn't want to go here in this thread, as it was really about walkable neighborhoods), actually shows relatively <i>few</i> bikes for the country if I were to choose the picture for such subvertive bike propaganda. If I really wanted to demonstrate the number of bikes in Holland, I'd show some of the many other photos I took. The photos I've attached further demonstrate that I had no such original sinister plan to plant into the minds of VB members that Holland his "lots of bikes." But since I've been forced to this measure, I really don't mind. Holland, afterall, does have "lots of bikes," and I, as a biker, quite enjoyed it.<br><a href="http://cdn.veggieboards.com/b/b8/b8a72669_vbattach3525.jpeg"><img alt="LL" src="http://cdn.veggieboards.com/b/b8/525x525px-LL-b8a72669_vbattach3525.jpeg" style="width:500px;height:375px;"></a><br><a href="http://cdn.veggieboards.com/c/ce/ce6aa814_vbattach3526.jpeg"><img alt="LL" src="http://cdn.veggieboards.com/c/ce/525x525px-LL-ce6aa814_vbattach3526.jpeg" style="width:500px;height:375px;"></a><br><a href="http://cdn.veggieboards.com/2/24/247d4ce2_vbattach3527.jpeg"><img alt="LL" src="http://cdn.veggieboards.com/2/24/525x525px-LL-247d4ce2_vbattach3527.jpeg" style="width:500px;height:375px;"></a>
 

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Discussion Starter #23
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gnome Chomsky</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
mikie: I have heard (from my linguistics prof) that there is a sort of social "taboo" (that's not the right word) against wearing helmets in holland. It's like if you wear a helmet, that's showing that you're really incompetent at riding a bike...did you find this to be the case?</div>
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It might fall under the taboo category. The whole time I was there, I saw thousands of bikers, but only once did I see someone wearing a helmet. My friend told me that only children do there. I told her that many people wear them in San Francisco because we like to keep our brains inside our heads. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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Discussion Starter #24
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mikie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
In the picture, the area is strictly residential, and a street size that would be better for the area would be a two-way two lane street, when in fact, you could probably park six or seven cars side by side inbetween the parked ones!</div>
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The picture I'm loading shows what I mean to say. I took it in New Orleans where the street sizes, for the most part, are exactly what they need to be. I'm going to point out, so that remilard does not have to, that the photo in New Orleans is light residential, and that of San Francisco in the original post, is medium residential, so it's not as perfect a match as I might lead on.<br><br><br><br>
It does however stress my point.
 

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It is not yet common practice in Europe for bikers to wear helmets. Sport cyclists wear them, and most children though.<br><br><br><br>
There is no law yet which makes people wear them. But there are more and more people doing it voluntarily. The same goes for the ski-slopes. Up to a couple of years ago, only children would be seen wearing helmets. Now one can see some adults wearing them as well.
 

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It is not yet common practice in Europe for bikers to wear helmets. Sport cyclists wear them, and most children though.<br><br><br><br>
There is no law yet which makes people wear them. But there are more and more people doing it voluntarily. The same goes for the ski-slopes. Up to a couple of years ago, only children would be seen wearing helmets. Now one can see some adults wearing them as well.
 

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This thread was about walkable neighborhoods?<br><br><br><br>
Where is a mod to correct the non informative or misleading thread title when you need one?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mikie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br><br><br>
In Holland, it actually is always like that. The photo, if I must be so picky (and I didn't want to go here in this thread, as it was really about walkable neighborhoods), actually shows relatively <i>few</i> bikes for the country if I were to choose the picture for such subvertive bike propaganda. If I really wanted to demonstrate the number of bikes in Holland, I'd show some of the many other photos I took. The photos I've attached further demonstrate that I had no such original sinister plan to plant into the minds of VB members that Holland his "lots of bikes." But since I've been forced to this measure, I really don't mind. Holland, afterall, does have "lots of bikes," and I, as a biker, quite enjoyed it.</div>
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Okay, thanks for pointing that out to me. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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>>The same goes for the ski-slopes.>><br><br><br><br>
Heh...I ski sans helmet (yes, I'm that petite bourgeois, I do ski). Prolly pretty stupid. My dad got a concussion once that way.<br><br>
...<br><br>
I never knew that this thread would be quite this pedantic.<br><br><br><br>
ebola
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gnome Chomsky</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
And, yes, the US and Holland are different countries. Isn't that what we're talking about?<br><br><br><br>
ebola</div>
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Well we were talking about how they were different in an unknown specific way, due to the vague thread title. Most of us assumed it was biking, it is apparently walkable neighborhoods. I would argue that the US and Holland have some stark geographic differences. Why not compare Holland with Connecticut or something?
 

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Discussion Starter #31
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Why not compare Holland with Connecticut or something?</div>
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Because I started the thread and I don't live in Connecticut. Why must you be so difficult?
 

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Discussion Starter #32
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This thread was about walkable neighborhoods?</div>
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It's about more than walkable neighborhoods. It's also about community and atmosphere. Doesn't it become obviously clear when one looks at the pictures, that that particular San Francisco neighborhood lacks both and the Dutch one does not? And, before you say it again, I think that both pictures are quite representative of their respective areas.
 

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When I was in the UK, I was personally quite amazed (though not surprised) by the small number of cyclists there. What further astounded me was their treating cycling as a life-threatening adventure which somehow has to involve body armor. I mean, safety is a good thing, I agree, but helmets, for leisurely riding through the city? Also, I think this has to do with elevations (or at least I hope so), I found it rather odd that everyone I saw was riding sports-type bicycles. Just look at some of the posted pictures to see what I mean.<br><br><br><br>
I think the best point to be made about the Dutch and the Americans and bicycles is that when a member or head of the Dutch government is portrayed while riding a bicycle, he is doing so because he wants to be seen as an ordinary Dutchman, using his bicycle to get from one place to another, while president Bush recently wanted to be seen as a man who manages to stay in shape in spite of a very busy job (this is admirable in its own right).<br><br><br><br>
Mikie: when was IMG_6373 taken? I think I can see my bike (it was parked there for some time when I was on vacation).<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.nos.nl/archief/nieuws/images/binnenland/165/donner_fiets.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.nos.nl/archief/nieuws/ima...nner_fiets.jpg</a><br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.sdbc.org/photos/albums/userpics/10002/bush_bike.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.sdbc.org/photos/albums/us.../bush_bike.jpg</a>
 

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Discussion Starter #34
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Finlay</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Mikie: when was IMG_6373 taken? I think I can see my bike (it was parked there for some time when I was on vacation).</div>
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No way! All the bikes in Holland look the same! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br><br><br><br>
It was about July 20th of this year.
 

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I'm lucky enough to have never broken a bone before. *knocks on wood* According to my mother and my earliest memories, I've always been extremely cautious. I've never engaged in any activity more dangerous than bunny slope skiing.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>remilard</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The countries in general or the two spots where you chose to take pictures? I can walk across the street any day school is in session and get a shot with about that many bikes, if that is what you are getting at.</div>
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I don't think you'll find spots like this in many other countries <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">: <a href="http://dannyman.toldme.com/images/IMG_2854.JPG" target="_blank">http://dannyman.toldme.com/images/IMG_2854.JPG</a> (Amsterdam)
 

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^^^<br><br><br><br>
pfft<br><br><br><br>
we have to stack the bikes on top of one another in Portland.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2003/09/271965.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.portland.indymedia.org/.../09/271965.jpg</a>
 

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Discussion Starter #39
^^^<br><br><br><br>
pfft<br><br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 
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