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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>halo_zero</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have heard (mind you, <i>heard</i>) that meat matter can stay in your colon for up to 7 years after going vegetarian.</div>
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Untrue. Your small intestine replaces its cells every 5 days, and the old cells slough off into your waste. Same goes for food - your body doesn't hang on to food for 7 years. If it was in there any longer than it was supposed to be, you'd be in a LOT of pain.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp" target="_blank">http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp</a>
 

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>rainforests1</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have a lot of respect for doctors, but there is a lot of dishonesty where they'd rather have people take trips to the doctor rather than use alternative means that won't make them any money.</div>
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Do you have any proof that this is a common/widespread problem, or are you just watching too much 60 Minutes?<br><br><br><br>
And how does a doctor recommending a diet rich in whole foods mean more money for them? Wouldn't a healthy diet result in FEWER trips to the doctor? If your statement above is true, why aren't doctors recommending high-calorie diets full of refined carbohydrates like doritos, white bread, saltines, and fruit loops?
 

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sf.girl</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Google the Master Cleanser by Stanley Burroughs. I think its a better way to get rid of exactly what you mentioned above! I did 5 days and I cant believe what came out of my body...</div>
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I just looked up Master Cleanse. It calls for TWO TEASPOONS of salt per day. It seems like that would make your blood pressure go through the roof. I really don't want a stroke. Is that actually healthy?
 

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Do you have any proof that this is a common/widespread problem, or are you just watching too much 60 Minutes?<br><br><br><br>
And how does a doctor recommending a diet rich in whole foods mean more money for them? Wouldn't a healthy diet result in FEWER trips to the doctor? If your statement above is true, why aren't doctors recommending high-calorie diets full of refined carbohydrates like doritos, white bread, saltines, and fruit loops?</div>
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I've read books about natural medicine, and my brother is interested in that too. My understanding is that they will recommend a drug that cures one problem and will lead to other problems. The person will go back to the doctor, and that's an ongoing cycle for some people. That's a big part of how they make their money. There is natural medicine that can cure problems much better than drugs, so that should be the solution.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>chocsoymilk</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I just looked up Master Cleanse. It calls for TWO TEASPOONS of salt per day. It seems like that would make your blood pressure go through the roof. I really don't want a stroke. Is that actually healthy?</div>
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Even Beyonce has recommended it, so there are many people who have had great success with it. As long as it's done for a short time, it shouldn't be a problem.
 

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Ah yes, Beyonce. The shining beacon of proper nutritional advice.<br><br><br><br>
You didn't answer my questions about doctors' advice. As for doctors prescribing drugs, many do <i>because</i> their patients don't (won't) follow their advice about a natural remedy for many ailments: eating healthy, whole foods and getting regular exercise.
 

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Hi guys. New here.<br><br><br><br>
Either way.<br><br><br><br>
My GP suggested I try a cleanse. She sent me to a Naturopath, who recommended the particular one I am going to try, starting tomorrow.<br><br><br><br>
She's no pill-pusher, has always recommended natural treatments before synthetic medicines, and I appreciate that from her. She's always completely honest with me, which I appreciate.<br><br><br><br>
I'll let you know what I think in 15 days.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Ah yes, Beyonce. The shining beacon of proper nutritional advice.<br><br><br><br>
You didn't answer my questions about doctors' advice. As for doctors prescribing drugs, many do <i>because</i> their patients don't (won't) follow their advice about a natural remedy for many ailments: eating healthy, whole foods and getting regular exercise.</div>
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LOL I don't feel most doctors do promote health. They also endorse people to eat dairy products for the most part, and those are very, very unhealthy. One issue about exercise is walking at a slower pace doesn't do much good. You have to walk where you break a sweat in order for it to have the benefits. I never knew this until I read a health book.
 

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i don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to question the objectivity of western medicine, which is increasingly dominated by pharma companies, when it comes to their assessments of "alternative therapies".... and it's completely legitimate to explore traditional, homeopathic remedies without being crazy or stupid. people have been doing colon cleanses for hundreds of years.<br><br><br><br>
and i do believe that some colon cleanse regimens do not include any sorts of pills or supplements but are based on a diet of raw foods and juices, which speaks to many of the comments already made here.. that a healthy colon can be achieved by a healthy diet.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>rainforests1</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
LOL I don't feel most doctors do promote health. They also endorse people to eat dairy products for the most part, and those are very, very unhealthy. One issue about exercise is walking at a slower pace doesn't do much good. You have to walk where you break a sweat in order for it to have the benefits. I never knew this until I read a health book.</div>
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What has caused you to believe that most doctors do not promote health? Do you have research to support this fact, or is this just your opinion based on articles you've read? Are you getting this information from naturopaths? Do you suppose naturopaths have a reason to get you to distrust conventional doctors?<br><br><br><br>
Do you have proof that dairy products are unhealthy? Why are they unhealthy? Fat?<br><br><br><br>
I've been reading a lot about how our nutritional guidelines were developed over the past ~100 years and it's amazing how there has never been a credible study to actually demonstrate that saturated fat leads to heart disease or increased cholesterol. It's all still a <i>hypothesis</i> called the Lipid Hypothesis. Meaning it's never been proven.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_hypothesis</a><br><br><br><br>
You might want to read more health books. Good Calories, Bad Calories is one I'd recommend.<br><br><br><br>
As for exercise, it's pretty well known that vigorous exercise is the best. However, just getting people off their asses and walking at a 3mph pace is better than nothing.
 

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Anyway, point being, your black & white perspective of modern medicine could use a bit of exploration. I'm sure there are some doctors who don't care about their patients and just prescribe pills. However, I've always had pretty good doctors who took time to talk to me and learn about my medical history and who praise me for my good diet and my exercise. And who have been understanding of vegetarianism and give me good advice. Even when I was obese I never had doctors telling me to go on pills. My cholesterol and BP were high and my DR talked to me about my diet.<br><br><br><br>
And my mom's current doctor is getting her OFF her pills, because he wants her to adopt dietary & lifestyle changes rather than continue to take meds.<br><br><br><br>
I think your distrust of doctors is largely fueled by anecdotes you've read by people with an agenda, financial or otherwise.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Anyway, point being, your black & white perspective of modern medicine could use a bit of exploration. I'm sure there are some doctors who don't care about their patients and just prescribe pills. However, I've always had pretty good doctors who took time to talk to me and learn about my medical history and who praise me for my good diet and my exercise. And who have been understanding of vegetarianism and give me good advice. Even when I was obese I never had doctors telling me to go on pills. My cholesterol and BP were high and my DR talked to me about my diet.<br><br><br><br>
And my mom's current doctor is getting her OFF her pills, because he wants her to adopt dietary & lifestyle changes rather than continue to take meds.<br><br><br><br>
I think your distrust of doctors is largely fueled by anecdotes you've read by people with an agenda, financial or otherwise.</div>
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It's not that I don't trust doctors, but it's more an issue of them being taught in medical school a lot of the same stuff the pharmaceutical industry tells them rather than the truth. Coconut oil is a good example. It's considered by many as one of the healthiest foods you can eat, yet there are many doctors who tell people it's "bad" for you. It's more an issue of medical school teaching people some things which are false than anything. The life expectancy has increased a lot, but people could be much healthier than they are.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Do you have proof that dairy products are unhealthy? Why are they unhealthy? Fat?</div>
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Organic dairy products aren't supposed to be that bad for you, but everything I've ever read that is not statements from the dairy industry has said the same thing. It wouldn't be too bad in small amounts but unfortunately that's not what happens. Cancer, heart disease, and most other illnesses are in some way linked to dairy products.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>rainforests1</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Organic dairy products aren't supposed to be that bad for you, but everything I've ever read that is not statements from the dairy industry has said the same thing. It wouldn't be too bad in small amounts but unfortunately that's not what happens. Cancer, heart disease, and most other illnesses are in some way linked to dairy products.</div>
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And again, I will ask you for some kind of study that demonstrates this association. Controlled studies show that diets high in saturated fat do not increase the risk of heart disease. And as for the "other illnesses", what are they and what research proves a corellation?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
And again, I will ask you for some kind of study that demonstrates this association. Controlled studies show that diets high in saturated fat do not increase the risk of heart disease. And as for the "other illnesses", what are they and what research proves a corellation?</div>
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I'm currently at my library's computer without a lot of time, so I'll try to look it up sometime during the weekend. I see these pictures of children many, many years ago, and there was little to no obesity. Even the adults appeared much thinner back then. If it's not the increase in dairy and meat products that has caused this problem, what do you think the problem is that has caused obesity to increase the way it has?
 

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Excess calories in the form of sugar.<br><br><br><br>
People have been eating meat & dairy for centuries and childhood obesity hasn't been a problem. Why would you think dairy would be the culprit if childhood obesity is recent?<br><br><br><br>
Only in the past few decades have we been pushed to eat high-sugar diets - and largely by our government. Whether you eat sugar directly (soda, candy, juice, etc) or via foods that your body immediately converts to sugar (chips, white/processed bread (not counting stuff like Ezekiel), processed crackers like Wheat Thins & Ritz, rice, spaghetti, rolls, burger buns, cookies, etc), we're eating more than ever before. A tiny bit is ok because your body can burn off small amounts. But cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, penne with salad for dinner, and a couple servings of wheat thins for snacks is likely more than your body can burn off.<br><br><br><br>
Just think about what kids these days eat and how much is sugar. On top of the overabundance of processed grains kids already eat, there's added sugar in everything - cereal, rolls, chicken nuggets (in both the breading and the processed chicken), graham (and other) crackers, granola bars, applesauce, mac & cheese, spaghetti sauce, peanut butter, juices... it's crazy.<br><br><br><br>
Sugar causes your blood sugar to spike which causes a sharp increase in insulin production (which prompts your body to store the energy as fat). The insulin carries the sugar out of your blood, causing a drop in blood sugar, which initiates hunger cravings to get teh blood sugar back up. Doing this to kids means that they're frequently hungry ... when you're giving them nutritionally-void, calorie-dense food over & over again, what else is going to happen but obesity?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Excess calories in the form of sugar.<br><br><br><br>
People have been eating meat & dairy for centuries and childhood obesity hasn't been a problem. Why would you think dairy would be the culprit if childhood obesity is recent?<br><br><br><br>
Only in the past few decades have we been pushed to eat high-sugar diets - and largely by our government. Whether you eat sugar directly (soda, candy, juice, etc) or via foods that your body immediately converts to sugar (chips, white/processed bread (not counting stuff like Ezekiel), processed crackers like Wheat Thins & Ritz, rice, spaghetti, rolls, burger buns, cookies, etc), we're eating more than ever before. A tiny bit is ok because your body can burn off small amounts. But cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, penne with salad for dinner, and a couple servings of wheat thins for snacks is likely more than your body can burn off.<br><br><br><br>
Just think about what kids these days eat and how much is sugar. On top of the overabundance of processed grains kids already eat, there's added sugar in everything - cereal, rolls, chicken nuggets (in both the breading and the processed chicken), graham (and other) crackers, granola bars, applesauce, mac & cheese, spaghetti sauce, peanut butter, juices... it's crazy.<br><br><br><br>
Sugar causes your blood sugar to spike which causes a sharp increase in insulin production (which prompts your body to store the energy as fat). The insulin carries the sugar out of your blood, causing a drop in blood sugar, which initiates hunger cravings to get teh blood sugar back up. Doing this to kids means that they're frequently hungry ... when you're giving them nutritionally-void, calorie-dense food over & over again, what else is going to happen but obesity?</div>
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Hasn't the amount of meat and dairy consumed skyrocketed in recent years as well? According to books I've read, that's the case. Obviously there are many factors and the lack of exercise is certainly one factor, but you have to consider the increase in meat and dairy as a factor as well.
 

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I guarantee you, consumption of flax seed and tofu and brown rice and soymilk and kale and chard have increased as well. Does that mean that those cause cancer & obesity?<br><br><br><br>
You've got to look at changes in total % of calories people are consuming, like 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbohydrates (typical american breakdown is more along the lines of 60% carbs, which includes sugar, 25% fat, 15% protein). In the recent decades, the % of calories from sugar has multiplied. Until the past 50 years or so, most americans ate meat & vegetables and limited their sugars and starches. Then in the 70s, the dietary guidelines changed due to government funding & targeted research, and encouraged high-carbohydrate, low-fat diets.<br><br><br><br>
You can see how well that did.<br><br><br><br>
And, how much has consumption of junk food increased in the past 40 years? Donuts? Sugary cereals? Pop Tarts? Potato chips and Doritos and cookies and pop and candy bars? Consumption of those food items (if you want to call them food) has increased significantly more quickly than other food categories.<br><br><br><br>
This might address your question:<br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet.fitness/09/18/kd.liquid.calories/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....ies/index.html</a><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">The rise in soft drink consumption mirrors the national march toward obesity. At the midpoint of the 20th century, Americans drank four times as much milk as soda pop. <b>Today, the ratio is almost completely reversed</b>, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Meanwhile, in the past 30 years the national obesity rate has more than doubled, and among teenagers, more than tripled, reports the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.</div>
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emphasis mine.<br><br><br><br>
This is a fascinating read, and the author has written an entire book ("Good Calories, Bad Calories") about how our nutritional guidelines came about.<br><br><a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63" target="_blank">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A9649C8B63</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dirty Martini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I guarantee you, consumption of flax seed and tofu and brown rice and soymilk and kale and chard have increased as well. Does that mean that those cause cancer & obesity?<br><br><br><br>
You've got to look at changes in total % of calories people are consuming, like 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbohydrates (typical american breakdown is more along the lines of 60% carbs, which includes sugar, 25% fat, 15% protein). In the recent decades, the % of calories from sugar has multiplied. Until the past 50 years or so, most americans ate meat & vegetables and limited their sugars and starches. Then in the 70s, the dietary guidelines changed due to government funding & targeted research, and encouraged high-carbohydrate, low-fat diets.<br><br><br><br>
You can see how well that did.<br><br><br><br>
And, how much has consumption of junk food increased in the past 40 years? Donuts? Sugary cereals? Pop Tarts? Potato chips and Doritos and cookies and pop and candy bars? Consumption of those food items (if you want to call them food) has increased significantly more quickly than other food categories.<br><br><br><br>
This might address your question:<br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet.fitness/09/18/kd.liquid.calories/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/diet....ies/index.html</a><br><br>
emphasis mine.<br><br><br><br>
This is a fascinating read, and the author has written an entire book ("Good Calories, Bad Calories") about how our nutritional guidelines came about.<br><br><a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63" target="_blank">http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A9649C8B63</a></div>
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You can read so many conflicting reports, so that doesn't do anything for me. The reality is that it is the garbage they put in dairy and meat products that makes it so bad for you. It sounds like you're trying to claim meat and dairy of today are the same it used to be, but you can't possibly make that argument. Eating dairy and meat products without any of the additives is not bad for you but eating the products with all of the garbage is very bad for you. I'd love to hear about all of these non-organic meat and dairy products which aren't fattening in the modern society.
 

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I agree with you to the extent that the antibiotics & hormones put into animals is far from health-promoting.<br><br><br><br>
IGF-1 and antibiotics, however, do not cause obesity. They may lead to other health problems (such as early puberty, accelerated tumor growth, or increased antibiotic resistance), but obesity isn't one of them.<br><br><br><br>
I'm curious why you don't consider the massive consumption of junk food to be a major cause. In the first half of the 1900s, people mostly ate meat, vegetables, and dairy. In the mid-century, along came TV dinners, packaged processed food (rice-a-roni, hamburger helper, etc) and junk food. And with it, dramatic increases in obesity.
 
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