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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone know anyone with chronic pain who has managed to take a full course load of college courses? Matriculate, or whatever it is called?

Or does the pain prevent one from doing such a thing? From concentrating on 5 courses, with classes and homework for each? Or is it possible to do such a thing despite daily pain? Is it my lack of intellegence that prevents me from doing this, so that iif I got rid of the pain, I still wouldn't be able to expect to be able to carry a full course load?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
"I've had students with chronic conditions (I don't know specifically about their pain levels) who go to school full time. It sounds to me like you feel you need to get your pain under control before you can concentrate on classes, so if that's how you feel, that's what you need to do. What help have you gotten for your pain?"

I want to know if (1) it is possible to concentrate on that many classes, whilst having chronic pain, that is not being treated. (2) Is it possible to do well in all the courses despite being being treated for pain with strong pain relievers? Do the pain relievers themselves make it harder to concentrate, whilst ameliorating the pain? Is it possible to read and listen and undertand while in pain, assuming there is not enough eye pain to make reading difficult. Can you pass all these courses if you have chronic back pain? Chronic dental pain?

What kind of chronic conditions did your students have? Did they experience pain many hours each day on most days, and still take a full course load? Are they able to carry their course load despite the pain.

Can people with a painful disability take a full course load, or is it only people with non-painful disabilities? Locomotion disabilities that don't hurt?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't want to go thru the trouble of relieving my pain, and take the physical risk of taking powerful opioids, only to find that I still can't take a full course load, because I have a basic learning disability.

My teeth hurt. But I will have to go to 4 years of college, get a degree, and then get a job, before I can get them fixed.

If you want to address how I am going to get my teeth fixed, please address this in the topic for that. This topic is the how am I going to get an education topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
"How do you plan on paying for four years of school if you can't afford to fix your teeth?"

NYS will gladly pay schools to give anyone on social security disability an education. The cover the complte costs of tuition and books. The give you stnadard tests to see wht subjects they think you will do better at, and may not be willing pay for other subjects. Also, they want to make sure its gola is eductional that is valuable to list on a resume to get a job. But they WILL pay for education. They wll pay for most medical care too. If I were to injure or get an illness in any part of my body, they would pay for any medical care necessary to keep the injured or sick appendage -- except for teeth. That, they view more like fingernails -- even tho in realit they are more like fingers.

They will pay for a haircut, clothing, even cosmetic eyes to replace a lost eye, or cosmetic testicle implants to replace lost testicles. They just won't pay for teeth. Not even dentures. They will pay to amputate a tooth, but not to save it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Please do not discuss how i might deal with my teeth in this thread. Move it to the tooth thread I started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
"It is easy to get a grant for tuition if you are disadvantaged, less fortunate. i.e. those that can't afford dental expenses."

Yup. That's what I just said.

" full-time students receive insurance regardless of their financial situation."

Huh? When I was a fulltime student back in 1965-1967 I did NOT have any insurance coverage from the school. None whatsoever. When I got even the slightest illness, the school infirmary took care of only the most emergency problems, and then said get your own doctor with your own or your family's money or insurance. Again, the insurance I have now covers everything but dental care. I already took care of my hernias, and my stomach ulcers and am taking care of my prostate and my pain, with this insuarance. But all the dental insurance will cover is emergency extraction of teeth and leaving me with dangerously shifting other teeth.

" I am sure you would do great in school."

I am not. I am articulate. The kind of ability required to do well in school is very different. I am not sure that I am not "learning-disabled" in that regard. I find it confusing to try and take more than 1 course at once, and often find that I have to do 12 times as much homework, for one course, as the amount the instructors suggest is needed. I timed it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am not sure if I take 12 hours to do 1 hour of homework because of the pain, or because I am slow, or because of the medicine I take for pain. I think all 3. I remember taking 4 hours to do one hour of homework, before the pain started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
" but in MA insurance is mandatory"

prob in 1967 my parents had me on their policy and the school accepted that -- and that explains why they said they couldn't treat me at the infirmiry except for emergency, and to see my family MD.

Now, they would accept my medicare and medicaid which I already have -- but which of course doesn't cover dental. So we are back to square 1. Someone before said that the school provides insurance. The reality is that they require that you be insured -- pay for your own insurance.. If you have an accident or get sick on campus, you have coverage. Unless you break your teeth on campus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
" why do you have to (to school) go full-time?"

I don't. I don't have to go to school at all. I was just trying to get some self-knowledge about my mental abilities, both general and relative to success in formal education, compared to that of other people. Am I really a fast learner but pain is slowing me down? Or am I a slow learner anyway? Or How much of each? I find it annoying that people keep saying I seem so intelligent, but at the same time I have such a difficult time succeeding in getting decent grades in courses, that other people don't seem to have such a difficult time succeeding at. If I want to succeed, should I concentrate my efforts, priortize, improving my learning ability, identifying any learning disabilities, or should I put lessening my pain first. If it isn't the pain, I don't want to put my body and risk by taking opioids, or risk becoming physically dependent on them, if even after they help me with the pain, I still have trouble learning.

I sense myself that I am brilliantly perceptive, and extraordinarly able to articulate things from a fresh point of view that illuminates thing. But I think that people assume that therefore I must be a fast learner, and that this may or may not be a mistaken assumption. They also jump to the conclusion that if I am very intelligent, but I don't do well in formal education, that the reason must be "psychological problems" and they seem to think that that isis all that is left as an alternative explanation. But I don't think I have a psychological problem in that regard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
"Have you been formally tested for learning disabilities?"

Yes I think so. I'm not sure.

I don't really think of what I have as a disability, just as a noticable difference. For example if I want to learn a dance step, or a swimming stroke, or to properly hold and fire a rifle, I have to break it down into its smallest positions and movements, make notes, make drawings, then slowly build them all together into a unitized position or movement. I've noticed that other people can learn the same thing by looking and copying. However once I've learned the basic swimming whole-stroke, I seem to more rapidly find how to maximize its efficiency, than other people learn this; they often seem to need people observing them and coaching them to tweak their movements. I however, just do the stroke, and while I am doing it I notice that if I keep my elbow a bit up, or a bit down, or my hands at one angle or another, or lift my head a bit earlier, or a bit later, I can get more speed and distance with less effort. So to go from not knowing how to do the stroke, to doing it approximately right, it takes me about 45 minutes, then another hour to go from there to doing it smoothly and efficiently. While someone else will be able to approximate the stroke after about 2 minutes, but take another 2 hours before they can do it smoothly and efficiently.

My son once got real angry at me when showing me how to do some kind of kneeling stance with a rifle. He kept on saying "just do this" and showed me the position for about 5 seconds. Here, here's the gun, you do it. Wrong. I was doing it wrong. I needed to very slowly put together exaclty where the arm was, exactly where the leg was, exactly where the other arm was, how was the leg in relation to the arm, how was it in relation to the other leg. He said that everyone else, he just showed them once, then stood up, then after a period of a few seconds, they did it themselves. He thought I was being obtuse, about not being able to get into the correct position. He thought I was pretending not to be able to do it, just to get on his nerves. But I really just couldn't do it. But he really didn't believe me. He got really angry because I "refused" to copy him correctly. When in fact I was entirely unable, without having him maintain the pose for about 20 minutes, while I move each of my limbs into the same position.

I remember the same thing with dancing. However once I get the whole thing, I very rapidly learn how to give it nuance and charactor. Same thing with playing a musical instrument.

The very REASON I am so good at articulating things, is I spent a great deal of time learning the thing to begin with. Once I learn the swimming stroke, I can describe it to someone in words while most people can't do that at all, and depend on their ability to show people the stroke, in order to communicate it.. A picture is not worth a thousand words to me. To learn something, I need a thousand little pictures, or 1000 words. This doesn't seem to show up on any kind of IQ test. None of these are tests of how you learned; they are all tests of whatyou have learned, in addition to your ability to deduce -- which I do perfectly normally.

I also can't remember a phone number, not even for a few seconds. The only way I can remember it more than a second or so is to continuously sing it in my head, over and over, the whole time. If I stop singing for a minute, I will forget it. I can only remember 3 digits. If I read 3 digits from a page, then turn in the direction of the telephone keypad -- I can dial the 3 digits. If I read 7 digits, I can't. I need to dial 3 digits, then turn back to the page, then look at 3 more digits, then dial those 3, then go back and look at the last digit, then dial it. However if you read me a long string of digits, say 15 or 16 digits, I can say them right back to you -- as long as I don't pause at all, between the time you stop speaking and the time I start speaking. The psychologist that tested me at this remarked that no-one else had ever remembered anywhere near such long strings of numbers, or spoke them back so fast. The only problem is, if I speak them back slowly, I can't do it. I had to speak them back as fast as was humanly possible. I actually was not remembering them consciously. I was more like automatically playing back a sound-recording of the numbers.

When adding a column of numbers using the carry method, I have to write down the carry number. If I don't, I will forget it, if interrupted for even a moment. Once I see or hear another number, the carry number would disappear from my memory. Most people are able to remember the carry number, there are only 10 numbers that it could be.

I absolutely love electronic spread sheets because I don't have to remember numbers. I create variables with long names, then plug the numbers in the variable. That is why I hate programming languages that use very short symbols to represent functions. I just can't remember what the symbols mean. I also don't see the point, since remembering things for you, instead of forcing you to use your own memory, is EXACTLY what we have computers for. So why name a variable t, for time, when you can name it time? Why say d/t=v when you can say distance/time = velocity? I'll forget what the t stands for, if you name it t. The only short things I can remember, are unique things, like a single symbol for PI makes more sense to me than writing out PI, or writing out 3.14. And yes, I can only remember the value to 3 places. Why remember more places, anyway, if you can alway just say "pi."

So I can't stand using C, but I love using BASIC. I find assembly language easier to learn, than C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Oh, yea, if I seel a sequence of numbers more than 4 or 5 numbers across, I can't tell you what the number is. I can't read off the sequences of digits, to you. I lose my place. this is no big deal if the numbers are on paper -- I simply mark up long numbers by putting commas between every 3 digits. then I can easily read off 3 digits at a time. But if the numbers are on a computer screen, I can't read them off. I have to copy and paste -- paste the numbers somewhere else; then i put spaces between every 3 numbers, then I can tell you what the number is. More than 4 or 5 numbers -- they all run together into one unitized thing. It makes certain tasks just take a hair longer.

I have no problem reading of the letters in actual words to you. That is because I recognize the words as a whole, a whole word, plus I know how the word is spelled, so I can read the letters off to you from my knowledge of how it is spelled (as opposed to reading them from the actual letters on the page) -- however that is the same thing -- so there is no problem there. But a random sequence of letters -- I have the same problem as with numbers, only it it not quite as bad because I can see them "naturally" grouping up into recognizable groups. So I could read off etynhytuio -- I see et, then yn, then hy, then tuio. When I read yn, I haven't yet forgotten et, so I can go on to hy without losing my place. But 5646895356 -- I can't even tell you how many digits there are -- without putting in commas or spaces or whatever, to break them up into more assimilable groups. By time I get to the 8 or 9, I have forgotten how many digits along I am and if I try to read the next digit, I may tend to skip one or go back one or 2. Now if I hear the numbers, I can recite them back as I explained above. But if I try to read them off from the page I lose my place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
" It gets sticky because some abbreviations (like v) can mean different things depending on what you are doing."

Ezzactly.

When I first started learning elementry algebra, i was taught that simply writing a formula, without including a statement of what the variables stood for, would get us points off on a test. We had to say "given v=velocity, t=time, and d=distance, v=d/t. Or given v=voltage, I= current and Z equals complex impedence, v=IZ. Of course, sometimes E was used for voltage (E standing for "electromotive force" or "electrical potential") So you needed to declare your variables or nothing would make sense.

I don't mind using single letters when doing calcuations with pencil and paper. Yea, it saves time. but I always declare my variable at least once, in a conspicuous place where I can find them, in case I need to look up what a letter stands for. But this doesn't explain why sometimes single letters are used for computer-program variables. The advantage of having a computer is that the computer can do the time-saving things for you, freeing you to do the deeper thinking. So why spend time memorizing that E stands for electromotive force, or trying to find the declatiron if you have forgotten it, when you can have the computer say show you the word or similar word (such as emf), each time it needs to be said?

If I am working with pencia and paper I use E=IZ. If I am working with a computer spread sheet or a computer program, I will use something like emf=current*impedence. I assume "impedence" to mean complex impedence. If I want to indicate capacitive reactance i will write capreactnc or something like that. You don't want to make them too long. Then you could lose track of the fact that they are variables and start to think you are reading novels. to make things easy, I won't make one variable capreactnce, and another inductreactnc. I will try and keep the 2 similar looking and similar in length. This makes these 2 easier to display since they are so often found together. So I will do either capreactnc and indreactnce, or capac-rctnc and induc-rctnc.

Yes I don't like to use A1, A2, B2 on spreadsheets. I like to give the cells names.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
For 35 years I had assumed that my thing where I needed to put commas between every 3 numerals, before I could read off a number, to be normal. After all, why would this be a convention when writing numbers, if it wasn't hard for everone to read off numbers that weren't demarcated this way? The fact that I could actually read 4 numerals, instead of 3, I took as evidence me being slightly more capable in this area, than the average person whom I believe could only read 3. That's right, if I see 100 I can tell you it is one hundred. If I see 1000 I can tell you it is 1000. I figured most people couldn't. I knew I certainly couldn't tell you what 10000 was. All I knew was that it was either 100,000 or 10,000. I couldn't tell you which, unless I demarcated it.

However one day while working in the accounting department of a company as a bookkeeper, someone asked me to look at a cell on a spread sheet, and read off the 10-digit number that was there, with closely spaced numerals and no demarcations between them. I couldn't do it. I'd known for 30 years that I couldn't do it, but I thought neither could anyone else. He refused to believe me. He thought I was just trying to be difficult. Then I asked him to read off the number, and I saw that he was able to (I added commas, and checked to see if he was right).
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
" I focuss on the first three and then the next three and then the next, kind of like mental commas."

Interesting. I just don't seem to be able to do that. Even while continuously staring at a long series of digits, and not looking away at what I am writing, I cant read off 3 digits, then 3 more digits, then 3 more. I slip "off track." I read off 3 digits, then 3 more, then I can't see where the next 3 start. I'll fall back a digit, or 2, or slip ahead one -- I can't be sure if I am at digit 7, or I have slipped back to 5 or 6, or 8 or 9.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
"I take an arthritis drug, not narcotics"

I took NSAID's for many years for facial pain. I can't take them any longer because they engendered stomach ulcers. If I were to take any more I could get a bleed and die.

"My pain has not often been so severe as to be distracting."

Mine is often severe enough to be distracting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
OK gaya. i see what you are doing. And I can sort of do that with the number you supplied above -- but I think it is only because of the fact that 20 is repeated twice. All I can remember now, without looking back, about 30 seconds after looking at the number, is forty-eight-twenty, thirty-eight twenty, something, something. although it might be thirty-eight twenty, forty-eight twenty. I don't feel confident about which.

If it were forty-eight twenty-one, ninety-seven sixty-three, 4 more, and then 2 more, it would be more of a challenge. There is a big differnce between a number with repeated twenties, and ones that don't have things like that, which I could use to help me remember them.

There is also something about zero that helps me sort things out, since I think of zero as something I don't have to remember, because it, err, isn't anything.

Hold on a minute: I am going to generate some random numbers to 14 places.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
29451639837520

Ok, if I say to myself, the number twenty-nine forty-five, instead of seeing 2, 9, 4, 5, I can remember my place, between 2945 and 1639, because I can then see the 4 digits 2945. I just keep saying to myself twenty-nine forty-five, and then I can locate the 1 in 1639.

But if I say to myself twenty-nine forty-five, sixteen thirty-nine, I think I am lost. Let me try another one.

65687544286859

Yea. If I just say sixty-five sixty-eight (which for some reason I misread as sixty-five eighty-six, the first time I looked at it), and then sevetny-five forty four, by time I get to the twenty-eight sixty eight, I have forgotton the first 4-digit sequence, so I can't find the second 4-digit sequence any longer. The only way I can find it again is to do what I am doing here -- repeat the sixty-five sixty-eight and seventy-five forty-four sounds, in my head, several times.

38505141240395

Yea. Several times indeed. Just sounding it out in my head, 3 times, does not help me remember thirty-eight fifty, fifty-one forty one. I sitll can't remember it, even after I just wrote it. I have to look at it again. Thirty-eight fifty. Whoops, I looked at all eight, and sounded out all eight in my head, but I can only remember the first 4. And now I can't remember that anymore; I have to look at it again. Thirty-eight fifty, fifty-something. I'm remembering 6 digits now. Thirty-eight fifty, fifty-one forty one -- it is taking me awhile.

Can I remember it? thirty-eight fifty, fifty-one forty one. Did I remember it? I'm not sure. I'd better check. OK, I got it right.

But somehow I think it would take less time to simply pencil-in commas between groups of 3 or 4.

Whoops, re-read that. I rememberd only 5 digits. Thirty-eight fifty, fifty-something is 5 digits, not six.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
80124821914846

OK, even after remembering eighty-twelve, forty-eight twenty-one, comitting the sound to memory, I still can't find my place in this number. The hardest part is finding the end of the forty-eight twelve string. Whoops. It is forty eight twenty one. Sorry. It was eighty-twelve, but the forty eight -- it was followed by a twenty-one, not by a twelve. I thought I had rememberd it correctly, but by time I tried to find my place in the sequence, I was saying forty-eight twelve to myself, instead of forty-eight twenty-one.

with the mistake now corrected in my sounding-out memory, I'm still having trouble with this one. I tend to skip over the one in forty-eight twenty one, and jump right to the nine. Why? Because I'm using sound, and nine sounds a lot like one. Both have an n-sound, at the end. And even tho one does not have an initial consonant, the process of opening one's mouth before saying the vowel-sound represented by the "o", causes an inaudible n-sound. That is, I don't actually hear the n-sound if I say "one", because I don't use my vocal cord when i change from closed-mouth to opened-mouth. But the movement is there, and that is enough to make me sort of hear "one" as "mone" (the m-sound being produced when one opens one's lip, if one vibrate one's cords while opening them, instead of waiting until one is finished opening, before starting vibrating). And mone is close enough to mone, to make me thing none, that is, nine.

Yes, I know it is really pronounced "won" but when you write it you start with the vowel sound being written down. And that is enough to make me think of one as sounding like the beginning of "onion" rather than sounding like "won." So I get it confused with nine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Gaya, without my yet figuring out why, I can say that doing it the way you said above doesn't seem to help me remember the numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Unless I do it the same way all the time, I can't remember which way I just did it. That is, unless I always use the same number of digits per group, every time I try to remember a number, I won't remember how long the first group is, that I decide to create, and how long the next group is, etcetera.

29451639837520

If I say to myself two ninety-four, five one six (nearby telephone area code) write that down, then I go back to the number and try to find my place, I can't find it. By time I get back to the number, I don't remember that 294 is three places. I look in the 5th spot for 516, and don't find it there.
 
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