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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So in school we recently covered the civil rights (CR) movement in U.S. History, and I was thinking about the whole MLK Jr. vs. Malcomb X (I hope I'm spelling that right, and have the right name in mind) thing over violence vs. peaceful protests.<br><br><br><br>
While I am against violence, it seems to me that if all that was ever done about the misstreatment of african americans was sighn holding and letters to the editer, the US would have much larger racism problems then it does now, I mean, how many CR would their be for African Americans? Would their still be lynching (and while I know that it does happen on occasion, I'm talking about lynching on a daily basis)?<br><br><br><br>
But African Americans got violent to some degree, and to a greater degree, did shocking things to get peoples attention.<br><br><br><br>
And then there was the womans rights movement in the US. A few woman (can't remember their names) went on a hungar strike while in jail b/c of peaceful protesting. They suddenly did something so shocking that the nation began to relise how important womans rights was. As a result of refusing food, the woman were forse fead, which lead to greater questions and problems. If it wasn't for this radical strike, would woman have their civil rights?<br><br><br><br>
So all of this to come to animal rights. If all we do is hold sighns and wright letters to the editer, what will be done? I was recently told that in the past 20 years, the average of vegetarians/vegans has barely changed. So what are we accomplishing? I know that radical AR demenstrations are happening, but I also know that their arn't many of them. Should we change our ideas on nonviolent, forgotten-about-in-a-few-days demenstrations and focus on radical i'll-remember-this-for-a-long-time demenstrations?<br><br><br><br>
And if you agree with me that we should, how should we do this? How could a hungar strike, for example, support AR?<br><br><br><br>
(See my answer to this in the next post, below).
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
So, my answer (and I really want yours!) is that we should start more radical demenstrations to support the AR movement.<br><br><br><br>
One thing that I've thought of a hunger strike. Though this would not be pleasent for the people involved, it may be very succesful. Say that a few people chose to not eat/drink anything except for water until KFC adopted PETA's animal welfare acts. PETA and other AR organizations then worked with the media and the strikers to get American's attention. For two weeks before the strike, KFC would be warned and the media would be airing details. Once the strike started, KFC would be getting a bad reputation, and what could they do? They could let the people die, and be seen as a company against human welfar for years and years to come, or they talk to PETA and agree on some animal welfare, and get a better reputation. In the process, people would be interested to find out why the strikers are so determined to reform KFC, and they would find info that would many times lead them to choose a veg*n lifestyle.<br><br><br><br>
I'm still cooking up some more ideas, so hang with me and let me know if what I'm saying sounds good or just plane stupid. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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I have become frustrated with PETA lately. Their ties to the ALF and ELF is having terrible consequences. On another MB that was not AR oriented, the rest of what PETA has to offer is being complelty lost. The message that is getting arcoss is PETA is a terrorist group so whatever else that they have to say isn't worth hearing.<br><br><br><br>
It's difficult enough getting the average person to be open towards AR issues without this. I have offered info on the ALF so that people can understand why people engage in these activities which are not hate driven.<br><br>
Unfortunatly ( I think?), the ALF has gone to new measures of vandalism since the book was written.<br><br><br><br>
I cannot support arson tactics for any reason. This is not animal rescue and may result in people being killed since you can't control fire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Eclipse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have become frustrated with PETA lately. Their ties to the ALF and ELF is having terrible consequences. On another MB that was not AR oriented, the rest of what PETA has to offer is being complelty lost. The message that is getting arcoss is PETA is a terrorist group so whatever else that they have to say isn't worth hearing.<br><br><br><br>
It's difficult enough getting the average person to be open towards AR issues without this. I have offered info on the ALF so that people can understand why people engage in these activities which are not hate driven.<br><br>
Unfortunatly ( I think?), the ALF has gone to new measures of vandalism since the book was written.<br><br><br><br>
I cannot support arson tactics for any reason. This is not animal rescue and may result in people being killed since you can't control fire.</div>
</div>
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I wasn't talking about vandalism, but I guess it kinda relates. Let me make it clear that I am not talking about demenstrations that would kill or physically cause harm to people not involved. The only harm that I am talking about it that which is done to the self or to the bussiness being boycotted etc. And to be even more clear, please don't go burn down a bunch of KFC's, b/c most KFC workers arn't even aware of the whole AR problem. Instead, do something radical that would win over the hearts of omnivores and that would cause reform. If your plan would make more omni's mad then sympathetic, it won't help the AR movement.<br><br><br><br>
I do understand what you are saying though.<br><br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jennifer89</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
So, my answer (and I really want yours!) is that we should start more radical demenstrations to support the AR movement.<br><br><br><br>
One thing that I've thought of a hunger strike. Though this would not be pleasent for the people involved, it may be very succesful. Say that a few people chose to not eat/drink anything except for water until KFC adopted PETA's animal welfare acts. PETA and other AR organizations then worked with the media and the strikers to get American's attention. For two weeks before the strike, KFC would be warned and the media would be airing details. Once the strike started, KFC would be getting a bad reputation, and what could they do? They could let the people die, and be seen as a company against human welfar for years and years to come, or they talk to PETA and agree on some animal welfare, and get a better reputation. In the process, people would be interested to find out why the strikers are so determined to reform KFC, and they would find info that would many times lead them to choose a veg*n lifestyle.<br><br><br><br>
I'm still cooking up some more ideas, so hang with me and let me know if what I'm saying sounds good or just plane stupid. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"></div>
</div>
<br>
Wow, that is the EXACT same plan me and my friend mitch came up with a month ago.
 

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I'm concerned that if someone went on a hunger strike to try to get KFC to change their ways, KFC would just ignore them and let them starve. After all, they don't seem like a very ethical company and their disdain for animal advoactes is fairly clear.
 

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I have the same concern, peace. It's hard to imagine a corporation like that actually caring if a few people starve to death.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Peace and Ludi, perhaps I'm overly optimistic (spelling?) but if the public gets in on it and starts to complain a lot to KFC, wouldn't they have to do something to avoid a mass boycott from the meat eating community? Even though non of them love animal rights activists, they won't just let them die and do nothing about it. Lets face it, veg*ns boycotting KFC does nothing: we wouldn't eat anything their even if they did treat their animals ethically. What matters is getting the omnivoris community on our side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>animallover7249</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Wow, that is the EXACT same plan me and my friend mitch came up with a month ago.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Think we can find a few volunteers? Think we could make something happen?<br><br><br><br>
What are some of the other things that you and mitch the friend have come up with?
 

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I don't think a hunger strike would work at all.<br><br><br><br>
Open rescues seem to be pretty effective PR-wise.
 

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Jennifer - I feel your frustration about this. It's very disheartening - even infuriating - to know that the vast majority of Americans are actively supporting an abusive animal industry every single day, and don't give a second thought to it. When I was sitting at the dinner table yesterday (Christmas) and everyone was passing around the turkey, I just wanted to scream - don't you realize how much this poor animal suffered? And for what?! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/undecided.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":-/"><br><br><br><br>
I have had a difficult time being the politically correct, silent and unobtrusive vegan lately. I'm so angry about what is happening to countless animals every single day, every minute... I am truly at a loss for what we can do to help. On one hand, I try to be the kind, sweet, vegan who makes it look easy and delicious, and who gives vegetarians a good name. Yet on the other hand, sometimes I think we make it TOO easy by trying to be so politically correct, quietly munching on our beans while everyone else is chowing on turkey, not expressing out loud any of the sadness and rage that we feel because we know the kind of life that turkey must have led. And then the omnivores don't have to think about it, they can just go on without anybody standing in their way.<br><br><br><br>
I'm not sure whether the hunger strike would work or not. Too many of us wouldn't be willing to do it. I wouldn't. I have two kids and I'm not going to risk them losing their mommy. Then again, I guess Gandhi had kids and he accomplished things using hunger strikes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Colorful, I understand completely. I don't know if I would be willing to do the hunger strike myself, if asked to, I would have to think through it a lot. But there is sher to be someone out their that is willing to do it. Maybe not on veggieboards, even.<br><br><br><br>
So, what else could be done? Having a hunger strike isn't the onley radical way for us to get out their and do something that'll cause change, and I know that I'm not the only one on these boards creative enough to come up with a radical idea.
 

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How about raising the points in the same way people raise money for charity, i.e. sponsored run, walks, mushy pea baths, etc, but instead of donating money people agree not to eat meat for that one meal, or boycott KFC etc for so many days, if we all make small waves then maybe we can rock the boat enough to overturn it.<br><br>
Some one at work made a good point, she said to me 'I don't want my daughter talking to you, she might realise where her meat come from.' we need more open honesty about meat, the good and the bad. Maybe even to the point of supporting suppliers that are 100% cruelty free. A friend of the family was a beef farmer, and he used to have a small herd that he had out in the pasture and they had a nice comfy barn and he monitored their feed and his vet bill was huge, and when the time came he loaded them up into a nice comfy trailer and drove them to a tiny slaughter house he knew, and he walked them through (and cried buckets as every one was shot). He said that every cow he got on the market was one in the eye for those companies that treated their cows cruelly.<br><br>
He went out of bussiness there was no call for cruelty free meat, this was 40 years ago. Now I couldn't eat meat, but maybe I'd be happier seeing it go round the table if I knew it had had a name and a happy life.
 

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I just don't know that you can have "cruelty free meat" unless the meat animals died of old age under pleasant circumstances. To kill, even suddenly and painlessly, could certainly be considered cruel to some extent, don't you think? Maybe I'm splitting semantic hairs. Certainly the death you depict for the cattle is less cruel than the death of a wild animal being killed by a predator. "Less cruel meat" maybe?
 

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I think it's also important to support the mainstream efforts that are making some progress. Movies like "supersize me" and the upcoming "Fast Food Nation" reach a broad population and have a profound effect. I'll bet that the effort of Morgan Spurlock has done more to reduce meat consumption in the US than any other individual.<br><br><br><br>
I'm not saying that civil disobedience isn't also necessary, as SevenSeas points out. I think it is. I look at it this way - If Martin Luther King was the most progressive civil rights leader in his day, people would have seen him as the extremist. Fortunately, we also had Malcolm X, Huey P. Newton, Bobby Seal, and others who were more "radical," and subsequently made King a more acceptable voice of reason from a general perspective. And now, many more people embrace the ideals of some of those who had been considered extremists.<br><br><br><br>
"Extremist" activism is important in animal rights issues for the same reason.
 

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I am sure that anything big to be done for Animal Rights will help through time to eventually stop the inhumane treatment they receive. In time, it will come along, though it may be quite a while from now, I just know that it will.<br><br><br><br>
This doesn't really have to do exactly with what you have brought up, but I wanted to mention that the elimination of all fast food restaurants would make a <i>tremendous</i> difference and give help for animals in so many ways/numbers.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ludi</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
How would one encourage the elimination of fast food? I deplore fast food, personally.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I don't have any numbers, but among the people I know, the movies I cited above have had a profound effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I like the idea of getting people to not eat meat for X amount of times or X many meals. The problem would be finding people who would be willing to give up there meat meals in return for you running 3 miles. The point of most of these runs/walks/etc is to raise money for a charity or organization, such as funding research to find a cure for breast cancer. The only people who I could see who would be willing to do this would be people who are allready veg*n or thinking about being veg*n. Maybe some die hard animal lover or something would be willing, but that's it.<br><br><br><br>
But how about next time you get asked what you want for birthday/christmas/whatever, you say "Promise me that you'll be vegetarian for X amount of time"? You could also make it like a contest amongst your friends, by putting into your birthday invantations, for example: "For a present, please bring your promise to go vegetarian for a few days. The person who promises the most days/meals and carries through, will recieve a special prize." Or something to that extent.<br><br><br><br>
We could also, as mentioned about the coworker's daughter, stop living the "We all make our own choices" life, and start living the "You are hurting animals by eating them" life. For example, I made my dad mad yesturday by refering to meat as "dead body," because I think that most people don't mind the word meat, but if you discribe it... (I won't use that term around my dad again though, he did get mad)<br><br><br><br>
But these are still small things... I think that your extreme activists can play a big role as well, and while it may turn some people off at the begining, it may also turn a lot of peole on over time.
 
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