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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As an ex-smoker recently unplugged from the nicotine addiction matrix, I am getting increasingly furious about the ciggarette industry. I am as repulsed and disgusted by it as I am by factory farms and the dairy industry.<br><br><br><ul><li>Ciggarettes are murder: 1 in every 2 smokers will die from a smoking related disease. In developing countries, ciggarette smoking has taken over as the leading cause of death in adults. Passive smoking causes diseases in non smokers and in children, and I asume in animals who live with smokers too.<br></li>
</ul><br><br><ul><li>Countless animals have suffered and died from animal testing by cigarrette companies. Animal ingredients such as animal fat, and ingredients which have have been tested on animals are used to make cigarettes.<br></li>
</ul><br><br><ul><li>If we stoped growing tobacco crops and grew food crops instead, we could significantly reduce world hunger.<br></li>
</ul><br><br><ul><li>Smoking is a major source of pollution, and the biggest indoor pollutant.<br></li>
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Being vegan, for me, is about taking a stand aggainst animal cruelty AND every other destructive and harmful practice that human beings participate in, because if we don't take care of the earth there will be no point saving the earth's animals. Environmentalism is part of my veganism; I don't believe one can exist without the other.<br><br><br><br>
And therefore, I don't think that cigarrettes can be considered vegan.<br><br><br><br>
I would love to hear other people's points of view.
 

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Well I don't believe environmentalism or human rights are a part of veganism. I believe environmentalism is a part of animal rights, and you cannot consistently have animal rights without human rights, but they're not included in the definition of veganism.
 

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I have yet to see anything REMOTELY factual about the animal fat thing. People always say "I HEARD there was animal fat", but no-one is ever able to come up with any proof. I've looked myself, and found nothing...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well I don't believe environmentalism or human rights are a part of veganism. I believe environmentalism is a part of animal rights, and you cannot consistently have animal rights without human rights, but they're not included in the definition of veganism.</div>
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Is there an agreed definition of veganism? I'd be interested to see it.<br><br><br><br>
It has suprised me to learn since joining these boards that there are people who become vegan for reasons that aren't to do with animal rights... I can't get my head around that.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nutella</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Is there an agreed definition of veganism? I'd be interested to see it.</div>
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Well, sort of. If we review the way that most vegan societies and AW and AR groups define 'vegan', we can get a generalized approximation of a definition, and I'd say it is something like "avoid using animal products in your life".<br><br><br><br>
I don't think that someone can be and remain a complete vegan without having AW or AR as a reason, but veganism and AR aren't the same thing IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>WonderRandy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have yet to see anything REMOTELY factual about the animal fat thing. People always say "I HEARD there was animal fat", but no-one is ever able to come up with any proof. I've looked myself, and found nothing...</div>
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I don't have any hard proof either.... but what I heard and read about it rings true, and I trust the sources I have found out about it from.
 

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Never heard of animal fat in cigarettes. And it wouldn't make sense. For what purpose would animal fat be used? And burning animal fat would have a very particular smell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I smoke American Spirits. They're the best tasting in my opinion anyhow. No additives..just tobacco, paper, filter, and methol. No animal testing either.
 

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If the tabacco industry tests on animals then I would say that they are not vegan.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I smoke American Spirits. They're the best tasting in my opinion anyhow. No additives..just tobacco, paper, filter, and methol. No animal testing either.</div>
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I didn't know the US actually had cigarettes like that, lol. I think that's how they're made in some parts of Europe. I think.
 

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I'm not a smoker, but would rolling your own be a good way to get around this whole 'cigarettes are not vegan (possibly)' deal? Then you choose exactly what goes in. Obviously you would still have to check out the papers and tobacco. I'm having a difficult time deciding exactly what in them would not be vegan, though (the glue on the papers? IIRC they have gum kinda like an envelope?).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
American Spirits do add carbon monoxide though.</div>
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This isn't correct. Tobacco creates carbon monoxide when burned. It's not added to the cigs I smoke..of which I'm down to about 5 a day smoking Spirits.
 

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TotallySober: Your information is incorrect. The carbon monoxide is added to the tobacco to sort of "fluff it up". It would not burn properly if this was not the case. Of this I am absolutely sure.<br><br><br><br>
In Switzerland, where rules are pretty strict about what is written on the packets of tobacco, on the American Spirits they even mention that their cigarettes have carbon monoxide added to them.<br><br><br><br>
American Spirits are probably the most healthy cigarettes one can smoke. If my memory serves me well, there are even some that use organic tobacco. People who smoke them also tend to smoke less.<br><br><br><br>
Due to an illness I have, the nicotine in cigarettes helps me control it, and I smoke two American Spirits a day. They are most enjoyable.
 

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But American Spirit is owned by RJ Reynolds, so I'm not sure how that makes it a lot better.<br><br><br><br>
And if you smoke for a while, I'd guess the drugs to treat health complications from it (emphysema, heart attack, chronic bronchitis, asthma, stroke, cancer, etc) aren't vegan, and/or were tested on animals.
 

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I think the thing that many people find counter-intuitive about veganism is that it does not require comporting to any standard of least harm.
 

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American Spirits is probably the best choice for smoking - of course thats like saying the best way to kill yourself is by putting a hose to your exhaust pipe -<br><br><br><br>
a friend of mine smokes a pack/week - i showed him the offer for a free case of spirits and he got them - but once the pack ran out he started up the 'ol marlboros again. he said they just tasted funny *shrug*
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
TotallySober: Your information is incorrect. The carbon monoxide is added to the tobacco to sort of "fluff it up". It would not burn properly if this was not the case. Of this I am absolutely sure.<br><br><br><br>
In Switzerland, where rules are pretty strict about what is written on the packets of tobacco, on the American Spirits they even mention that their cigarettes have carbon monoxide added to them.<br><br><br><br>
American Spirits are probably the most healthy cigarettes one can smoke. If my memory serves me well, there are even some that use organic tobacco. People who smoke them also tend to smoke less.<br><br><br><br>
Due to an illness I have, the nicotine in cigarettes helps me control it, and I smoke two American Spirits a day. They are most enjoyable.</div>
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Do you have a source for this info? I couldn't find anything on their site or with Google, etc. A couple of places in fact, cited a study showing that exhaled carbon monoxide levels were lower in American Spirits than other cigarettes, which would be odd if CO were added to them.
 

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IamJen: The mention on my packets of American Spirits (and I've tried all the different coloured boxes) says: Warning: Contains Carbon Monoxide.<br><br><br><br>
And I know some who are in the tobacco industry so I know a little about how cigarettes are made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well, sort of. If we review the way that most vegan societies and AW and AR groups define 'vegan', we can get a generalized approximation of a definition, and I'd say it is something like "avoid using animal products in your life".<br><br><br><br>
I don't think that someone can be and remain a complete vegan without having AW or AR as a reason, but veganism and AR aren't the same thing IMO.</div>
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I guess that's an accurate definitation. And certainly, if we go by that and trust the company who makes the American Spirit company cigarrettes - then that brand could be considered vegan.<br><br><br><br>
But, that definition doesn't explain <i>why</i> anyone would avoid using animal products.... when you get into the whys of veganism, which I think for the majority of us are about animal welfare and ethical beliefs, then I don't think there is any way of justifying cigarettes as vegan.<br><br><br><br>
I think that if someone is aggainst the murder and exploitation of animals on the one hand, they surely can't support an industry which has caused the murder of millions of people and animals, and exploitation of the environment on the other. Its a contradiction.
 
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