Choosing celibacy

evilvegan · Sep 19, 2006

This is a bit of a rant, I suppose, about my recent choice for my spiritual health. 
I have always felt that being intimate before marriage wasn't quite right, but have always gone along with it for fear of being rejected, but it's not like I've "been around the block"; only with the guy I intend to marry. Well, due to some recent soul-searching, I've decided that the best thing for my self esteem and spirituality is to become celibate until that great day arrives. This was all fine and dandy, at least until the time came to prove to my SO that I meant to stick to my moral code. He tried everything he could think of, and it didn't work. Now I am being bombarded with things like "I was taught not to buy things till I tried em out," "You never had a problem before, what's wrong now?," and "We didn't even *have* to get married before you lost interest in me." I think that I made a wonderful and safe choice for myself and for our relationship, but he obviously thinks otherwise. 
Anyone with similar experiences? Please share.

bstutzma · Sep 19, 2006

So wait, you were sleeping with him first, and now you aren't? Is it for "purity" reasons, or for prevention of pregnancy? Either way, obviously it IS your choice, but I can definitely see how he would feel confused and rejected if you changed all of a sudden, and he didn't want to. So, of course, you have the right to be celibate, if you want, and he has the right to leave you, if he wants. 
But if, in fact, you slept with him, and then changed your mind, and he leaves: don't feel like his leaving is some huge rejection of you, or that celibacy won't work in any relationship. I know a couple who were celibate before marriage (christians) and they are perfectly happy as far as I can tell.

Thalia · Sep 19, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by evilvegan <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
"You never had a problem before, what's wrong now?," and "We didn't even *have* to get married before you lost interest in me."</div>
</div>
 
Can you explain this a little more? 
Do you think that part of why your self-esteem and spiritual health felt lacking was because you do not feel respected by your current SO? Did you feel disrespected when you had sex before? If not, then it's good you stopped. Does he show genuine interest or respect for your feelings? Does he genuinely care about your concern that your self-esteem and spiritual health are in need? 
Is it possible that he is reacting this way because of the way you presented your decision? For example, do you have a history of making sweeping changes or taking sudden stands about things without follow-through or having a reasonable motivation? (not saying you do, just something to consider).

jeneticallymodified · Sep 19, 2006

i think he's probably a bit peeved, worried, concerned, and frustrated, cos the rules and boundaries have changed, and he probably was happy with how things were before. he might also be questioning your motives- i know i would in his shoes- if my bf suddenly declared himself celibate- i'd have a million thoughts and fears and questions around it, including 'do i not turn him on?', 'is there something wrong with how i've been doing it?', 'are we ever going to do it again?', 'do i want to commit to continuing a relationship with him, with such a substantial change in effect?', 'what else is going to change down the road that affects me?', 'if i hold out and we eventually get married, will things be back to how they were before, or has his whole veiw on sex changed perminantly?' etc. 
did you discuss your choice with him, in depth, and talk about why you'd decided to make the choice, discussing your feelings and his feelings around it, both of your hopes and expectations for your intimate relations in the future, where your relationship was headed in this respect, how you veiw sex generally, how your choice wouldd ffect your relationship, etc, and make sure you were both on the same page about it (ie that he was clear and happy about, and in understanding of the change too)? 
or did he just suddenly hear something more the lines of 'ok, no more nookie, sorry'. cos if it was the latter, whether or not your choice is right for you, if i was him, i'd feel a bit peeved and put out- a relationship is after all, about relating to each other. 
if you did go through it all with him already, perhaps its worth having another chat about it. discussing his feelings, how he's coping with it, your feelings, your concerns, how you can support each other, and what is or is not ok in terms of behaviour, how you feel when he speaks to you like that and tries to push your boundaries, and whats underneath it for him (why he does it- frustration, fear, lust?) etc. 
perhaps together you can work out a way to fill a need he might still have that you don't, or fill a gap that your change has created for him- if its the physical intimacy he misses, you could look for ways to express yourself together that don't offend your morals/ethics. i dunno, perhaps do an active sport like squash, together (to get all tired and out of breath and full of endorphins and have fun?), and hold hands and hug lots, so he knows you're still commited and close to him, perhaps. 
i think it'd be important to also discuss what sort of things its ok for him to still do with or without you, sexually. think about whether you would you be ok to watch him do some things, or if you'd find it acceptable for him to do them himself in private, for example. if its the emotional closeness he's missing, find ways to redevelop this too- the last thing he'll need right now is to feel shut out of a choice that you made, that affects you both. 
good luck! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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Skylark · Sep 19, 2006

Evil vegan, I fully support your choice not to be intimate with your intended until marriage. I'm going down a similar road myself, though I don't currently have an SO. I was taught not to buy things until I tried 'em out. It's not an arranged marriagehe knows who you are. If you withhold a part of you that you consider to be special, he should be honored that you are willing to give it to him later. We never had a problem before, what's wrong now? Did you, um, "switch rules" midstream on him? Had you been intimate before, and now you won't, or he was expecting to go to bed with you, and now you tell him that's a no-no? I can see why he might be annoyed if you told him before this you would sleep with him, but he should respect your choice now. 
People change, and sometimes that affects their partners in ways the partners may not like. I'm assuming by your username you're a vegan. Have you been vegan the entire time you've known him? This kind of reminds me of what SOs go through when their sweetie announces s/he is going vegetarian. It's a big adjustment. 
Did you decide this today? How far off is the wedding? I'd give your SO a week or so to calm down, and if he decides he can respect you and your choice, then you're probably good to go. If he is still fuming about it a month from now, I might take a step back and re-evaluate. Please try your best to clearly communicate to him what went into making this decision, and emphasize that it's not about him being a bad lover or libido levels. (Your post indicated it was about your morals and spirituality.) 
Buck upliving without sex for a time isn't the worst thing in the world. He needs to know that, too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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However, I am curious what exactly caused you to decide this. That might be a topic for PMs if you feel more comfortable not spilling your entire guts to all of VB.

evilvegan · Sep 19, 2006

It is for my spiritual purity, I guess. 
We have been intimate for 2 years previous to this, and yes, I do understand his confusion, but not the comments. I have always felt guilty and generally bad after intercourse, and after lots of meditation, I have finally decided to let go of that darkness in my life. 
He has always had a concern that he didn't know how to please someone in bed, so that is one of his fears in this also. He won't tell me though, his mother has trained him to not have an opinion on anything, basically. We have been engaged for a year, and honestly, he says that he never planned to actually get married. Just put a ring on my finger to warn guys off of me. He isn't against actually getting hitched, but he is not excited about it. I've asked for his input numerous times, each time only to be told that he was "waiting on me to do what I have to do."

Ophelia · Sep 19, 2006

did you explain to him what you just did to us? telling him that you had meditated on it and still affirming his abilities and reassuring him that it's not over for now, but you have decided to take your faith more seriously might help. offer to include him- ask him to pray with you or to meditate with you about what you want in a relationship- spell out that you want to get married (if you do) and tell him that you want him to make up his mind about this. my fiance has a hard time making decisions as well- he started having issues with it when he formed opinions that conflicted with the ones he was raised with, so he kind of shut up to stave off arguments. when he shrugs off an 'i dont know' i tell him 'thats not a good enough answer- think about it...what do you want?'. getting married should be something that is fun- something about your relationship that makes you excited...a big step in telling the world that you are a permanent couple- talk to him about how you feel. if, after pouring your soul to him, he can't understand...you may need to re-assess your relationship- is he really someone who can understand you and fill your needs? will he be able to deal with all the **** life dumps on people when it hits and will he be supportive of your future decisions, like what happens when/if you get pregnant, or if you have to make a life-altering decision if a loved one is in the hospital.... think on it- try to get him on your side, but if he won't...is that what you need? 
and what is he waiting for you to do? are you going to do some magical transformation that signals you are ready to be married? 
i guess what i am trying to say is that you need to try to keep his worries comforted while asserting yourself- you dont want to give in, dont give in. 
fight the good fight, love- my joshua and i are both virgins and have been engaged for year this 11.october. we have known each other for four years as of that date and will have been dating/committed for a year and a half...and we are celibate for the same reason you are. 
blessed be- 
~<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dancingbanana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":nana:">

astro · Sep 19, 2006

So can you clarify a point for me, I"m a bit confused? 
You're doing this because of your religious beliefs and not because of any negative sexual experiences that happened to you? Is that right?

evilvegan · Sep 19, 2006

Yah, thats right.

zoebird · Sep 19, 2006

i think that asserting that you're utilizing this for your own spiritual development, and not out of any deficiency on his part would be a good idea. 
i understand his comments--he's scared. bottom line is he's questioning whether or not you want him or like him, whether or not marriage is going to work if you don't want him or like him now, and related. he's taking your assertion as a commentary or reflection on him. 
as always, i recommend councelling. good for anyone really. (premarital couples councelling)

Thalia · Sep 19, 2006

It's also not clear to me what you what and what he wants out of this relationship long term, if you've talked about it, and if you are both on the same page. I'm not saying to break up, just that I'm wondering if you could improve communication of each of your values, needs, wants, and goals.

bstutzma · Sep 19, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by evilvegan <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Yah, thats right.</div>
</div>
 
I know this is going to sound very simplistic, and I don't mean it in a derrogatory way at all, I just want to get this straight: 
You've been sleeping with him for 2 years, hating it, and now you want to stop. 
He gave you a ring, but has no intention to marry you. 
Why are you dating this guy, exactly?

astro · Sep 19, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by evilvegan <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Yah, thats right.</div>
</div>
 
So it is only your religious beliefs then that are making you feel guilty about sex? So much so that you needed medication in order to cope?

zoebird · Sep 19, 2006

i think she said 'meditation' not 'medication.' or maybe i'm misreading things. . .

astro · Sep 19, 2006

*books appointment at Optician"s* <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

">

GhostUser · Sep 19, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by evilvegan <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
We have been intimate for 2 years previous to this, and yes, I do understand his confusion, but not the comments.</div>
</div>
 
I wouldn't be comfortable with the comments he made, if I were you. Saying that you have a "problem" is disrespectful and rude. And you don't have a "problem;" that's just his way of showing he's insecure about himself. You also said he was bombarding you with statements/questions, and that sounds like he's being aggressive and negative about the situation. I'm sorry that he's acting this way. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hug:"> 
If he can't respect the decision you made, tough luck for him. There's nothing wrong with deciding after the fact (of being intimate with someone) that you wish to wait until marriage to continue being intimate. It is unfortunate that he is being so unaccepting of your new spiritual decision. You have to do what's right for you. Not him, and not your relationship. Do what is right for YOU. 
If he didn't have plans to marry you, but proposed and gave you a ring anyway, that's a red flag. Engagement is a serious committment, and if he doesn't see you in his future as a wife and life-long partner, then I'd seriously consider if it's in your best interest to stay in a relationship with him. 
Please PM me if you'd like to talk about any of this in detail or need some more personal advice. I'd be happy to talk. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

">

Thalia · Sep 19, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by veggiejanie <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I wouldn't be comfortable with the comments he made, if I were you. Saying that you have a "problem" is disrespectful and rude. And you don't have a "problem;" that's just his way of showing he's insecure about himself. You also said he was bombarding you with statements/questions, and that sounds like he's being aggressive and negative about the situation. I'm sorry that he's acting this way. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hug:"></div>
</div>
 
I don't know, if I had a partner who slept with me for two years and then suddenly threw this at me, I'd be acting the same way. I'd be mad, ask a lot of questions, and depending on what else I knew about the person, I might think it was a reflection of some other problems the person had with me, themselves, or the relationship. 
Of course, as said before, that's her right and if one believes strongly in this, they should stick with it. Of course other people's reactions might understandably be very negative. 
It's just really unclear what the history is here, and how this decision was made and presented to the SO. 
And yes, I am kind of baffled by the fake engagement thing, maybe I am not understanding that.

Seusomon · Sep 19, 2006

I agree with Thalia. 
It's important to understand that for many people (I would even say most), a sexual relationship is qualitatively different than a nonsexual one. Unless there is an awful lot of understanding and truly superior communication between the two of you (and it doesn't sound like there is), unilaterally ending a sexual relationship with someone who has been with you for two years is going to feel like rejection, and it is going to be extremely distressing for the person who is being pushed away. 
Explaining it in terms of religion is not going to go very far in terms of making him feel good about what is happening. The time to explain that you don't believe in pre-marital sex is when you start seeing someone, not after being his sexual partner for two years. 
Entering a long-term sexual relationship is an important decision. For most of people, it carries with it a sense of obligation to make decisions that effect both of you carefully and collaboratively. It doesn't sound like either of you doing very well in that area. He doesn't seem to be taking the engagement decision very seriously, or caring about how it impacts you, and you don't seem to have seriously considered the emotional consequences to your partner when you withdrew from an ongoing sexual relationship with him. 
As for what to do now, I think the two of you need to have some really deep and honest conversations about what this relationship is about, where it is going, and why it matters to you both. It might be good to do that in a counselling context, if you are not used to such things.

troub · Sep 19, 2006

If someone doesn't respect your desires for sexual purity (original or renewed) then they are not worth giving your sexual purity to. 
If that makes sense. 
...its never "too late" to renew your sexual purity and save yourself until marriage. It's one of the best things a person can do. For themself, for their future SO, and for anyone else that could have been involved.

Thalia · Sep 20, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by troub <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
If someone doesn't respect your desires for sexual purity (original or renewed) then they are not worth giving your sexual purity to. 
If that makes sense. </div>
</div>
 
Well, I think sometimes people just have incompatible values. 
What if someone told the OP's boyfriend, "If someone doesn't respect your desires to express your sexuality through intercourse, then they are not worth giving your sexuality to?" Just like a veg*n who demands their partner ve veg*n, too, or an omni who demands their partner eat meat. Each has a right to their own lifestyle, it's just that they must then find partners who are compatible with that lifestyle if it requires or if they want it to require the partner's happy participation. I'm all for people following their personal values, just so long as they understand that to do so uncompromisingly often requires that they make certain sacrifices.

Choosing celibacy

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