VeggieBoards banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm wondering if what I've read on VB is true, & vegans *do* need to add cholestetrol to their diets or risk serious depression, mood swings, etc.<br><br>
I believe zoebird has taled about this somewhere but I couldn't find it.<br><br>
I know our livers produce cholesterol from oils & fats, but I seem to recall that it's not adequate to meet many or all people's requirements.<br><br>
I also seem to recall there is no such thing as non-animal-derived cholesterol.<br><br>
Can you be 100% vegan & somehow work around this?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:">
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,524 Posts
My research and conversations with doctors leads me to believe that it's diferrent from person to person.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I also seem to recall there is no such thing as non-animal-derived cholesterol.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Vegan saturated fats, once processed by your body, contribute to your cholesterol level.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Where's Lothar when you need him?!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
780 Posts
As I understand it, our bodies do need cholestetrol but we don't need to get it in the diet because our bodies produce it if we don't get enough. And I've never seen any literature that says vegans/strict vegetarians need to supplement their diets with cholestetrol. Maybe ask zoebird where she heard that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nigel</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
Where's Lothar when you need him?!</div>
</div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br><br><br><br>
As per the topic, have you had your levels checked recently to see if they are low? I don't know much about this, so I'll leave to those who do. Good luck with finding the information you need <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
there are people in china with cholesteral levels at 110 and under who do not have any problems as zoebird did. i think her condition and problem is unique and rare. if you start to feel depressed and have assessed every other cause and think it might be cholesterol talk to your doctor. or exercise, eat well, enjoy your work, meditate, get plenty of sleep, and have sex regularly. maybe that'll help you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
where i 'heard' it was in my own experience.<br><br><br><br>
here are a number of the things that i've pieced together:<br><br><br><br>
'low' cholesterol is not a matter of averages about what is considered "low" but rather, what symptoms exist that determine whether or not one's own cholesterol number is appropriate and healthy. "by the numbers" low cholesterol can have a number of negative affects and has been linked to depression (correlation, still researching regarding 'causation'--and, it's nto always the cause). Neurological problems can also be caused by cholesterol that is too low as well. in such cases, increasing one's cholesterol is appropriate.<br><br><br><br>
btw, the converse is true as well. a person may have "high cholesterol" and be perfectly healthy if they have no secondary symptoms. in such a case, 'high' by the nmbers may be normal for the individual--and healthy even. decreasing that 'high' cholesterol may actually cause health problems--even though teh numbers are "in normal ranges." For menopausal women particularly, it can lead to sexual dysfunction, loss of muscle and bone tissue, and contribute to a number of 'typically age related' diseases that only affect those menopausal women whose cholesterol is lower than or stays the same as when they were pre-menopausal.<br><br><br><br>
If one does need to increase cholesterol, there are many ways to try to do it--such as consuming saturated fats such as coconut oil and related;<br><br>
increasing exercise and movement; and working to improve thyroid function.<br><br><br><br>
another thing that increases cholesterol, but not necessarily "good" cholesterol is consuming hydrogenated oils, processed sugars and flours. it is vegan, but i wouldn't recommend it.<br><br><br><br>
If these do not work, then consuming cholesterol through diet (eggs, dairy, etc) will help balance the system.<br><br><br><br>
In my own experience, my numbers 'exceeded' the PP's chinese cholesterol number (114 was my number), and yet i had secondary symptoms that had no other discernable origin. Low cholesterol runs in my family (most of the omnivores in my family have similar or only slightly higher numbers)--and one of my cousins is an omnivore on medication to increase cholesterol, her production system is so off (though i think a balanced whole foods diet and exercise would serve her better than her meds). So, with the family history and my own n umbers and observations of secondary symptoms (including a neurological exam that came back with some interesting observations), i decided to work on it. I tried more sat fats, more exericse (though i can't imaging doing much more than i already do--over 3 hrs a day sometimes), and i refused to do hydrogenated oils, etc, because of their connection to heart disease and they're general 'yuckiness.'<br><br><br><br>
so, i began to eat pasture-raised, free range chicken and duck eggs. i consume raw dairy (though i don't drink milk) in the form of yogurt, cheese, butter, and home-made ice creams. Doing so increased my cholesterol levels and the symptoms disappeared.<br><br><br><br>
I do believe that increasing cholesterol levels helps with depression. When my neighbor decided to consume a higher-fat diet (that included cholesterol-rich foods like egg yolk), she was able to transition out of her medication in 6 months. She was diagnosed as manic-depressive. while she still gets therapy, she pretty much uses diet and exercise to help 'medicate' her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
0 Posts
i have (genetic)high cholesterol- even though i eat a vegan diet- and would likely be on medication if i ate a SAM.<br><br><br><br>
more proof it depends on the person, and you should consult a professional and do your own research before making any changes. that being said, I am currently making a few changes in my diet to see if some medical issues of mine will be alleviated. if you have access to free range eggs maybe add them in for a few weeks and see if you feel better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
pasture raised are healthier than free range. the feeding aspect is different and pasture raised means 'free range' whereas free range means 'cage free' (or a big cage that is a barn that may be open to the outside air), and 'cagefree' usually means a big barn, no natural air/light.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,604 Posts
I have a couple of questions for you organica:<br><br><br><br>
1. How long have you been vegan?<br><br>
2. How long have you had problems with depression/mood swings?<br><br><br><br>
If your mental health issues predate your veganism it would probably be a good indication that cholesterol consumption is not a factor.<br><br><br><br>
If your mental health issues started when you became vegan, then cholesterol, or other dietary issues, might be a factor and you should consult with health professionals to determine that.<br><br><br><br>
Just based on my own, albeit limited, reading and research, depression related to low cholesterol consumption is not common.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>eggplant</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have a couple of questions for you organica:<br><br><br><br>
1. How long have you been vegan?<br><br>
2. How long have you had problems with depression/mood swings?<br><br><br><br>
If your mental health issues predate your veganism it would probably be a good indication that cholesterol consumption is not a factor.<br><br><br><br>
If your mental health issues started when you became vegan, then cholesterol, or other dietary issues, might be a factor and you should consult with health professionals to determine that.<br><br><br><br>
Just based on my own, albeit limited, reading and research, depression related to low cholesterol consumption is not common.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Thanks everybody.<br><br>
In reference to eggplant's inquiries, I have been very close to totally vegan for over 2 years. I have been symptomatic (mentally ill) for my entire adult life, but less so when I was eating an omni diet. (I consider that pure coincidence.)<br><br>
In refernce to zoebird, my naturopath told me to eat more fats but it's difficult sometimes when eating vegan. I just bought coconut oil though. It's hard not to eat too many calories when consuming good fats, which, in addition to 99.9% veganism, is why I likely still don't consume enough good fats.<br><br>
My blood cholesterol is also low & my thyroid function is not great. I am on iodine & other nutrient supplementation for it right now, have been for 6 months now.<br><br>
I'm seeing the naturopath again in a few days, but I will mention this thread. I'm her only vegan (or shmegan, or whatever) client, so I find VB sometimes a better source of info than her when it comes to vegan nutritional/health issues.<br><br>
Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
0 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>zoebird</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
pasture raised are healthier than free range. the feeding aspect is different and pasture raised means 'free range' whereas free range means 'cage free' (or a big cage that is a barn that may be open to the outside air), and 'cagefree' usually means a big barn, no natural air/light.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
well whatever. i kinda meant that- i don't eat eggs so i have no reason to know the difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,186 Posts
Organica, I'm guessing you get a lot of you must be mentally ill because of being vegetarian. Of course if someone veggie has something wrong with them, it must be due to being veggie.<br><br><br><br>
I get this all the time with my illness and it gets so dam annoying. Even if I carefully explain how the illness predated being veggie and how I'm no sicker or healthier being veggie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
while i agree with eggplant's general assertion, it does assume that the pre-vegan diet was also healthy and meeting one's nutritional needs.<br><br><br><br>
while the cholesterol issue may be less likely, there is a good deal of research to suggest a correlary (not causary) link between low fat diets and depression. While the SAD diet is high fat in general (and lw in nutrition as well), the "healthy" SAD on which i was raised was very low fat, and moderate in processed foods and junk foods. My SIL was raised on a more strict "No fat" diet (although omnivorous so there was some fat) as dictated by the american heart association--and at puberty developed mental health problems (OCD, bipolar disorder). There is some evidence in the research to suggest that a higher fat diet decreases in symptoms or incidence of these problems when diagnosed in young people.<br><br><br><br>
so part of the question is not just 'did this exist before you were vegan?" but also "was your diet nutrient rich and fat rich (appropriate for one's own constitutional needs) prior to being vegan?"<br><br><br><br>
because if so, then the dietary change likely doesn't have an impact, but if not, then the dietary change probably has both positive and negative impact.<br><br><br><br>
(i remember her writing that she was virtually starved growing up--desparately underfed, under nourished--which may play a part in her mental health condition)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
purpelle:<br><br><br><br>
i wasnt saying you should. just clarifying for readers. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>organica</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Thanks everybody.<br><br>
In reference to eggplant's inquiries, I have been very close to totally vegan for over 2 years. I have been symptomatic (mentally ill) for my entire adult life, but less so when I was eating an omni diet. (I consider that pure coincidence.)</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
i think it's worth looking at very closely. there may be something regarding fat, etc, in response to this worth looking into.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">my naturopath told me to eat more fats but it's difficult sometimes when eating vegan. I just bought coconut oil though. It's hard not to eat too many calories when consuming good fats, which, in addition to 99.9% veganism, is why I likely still don't consume enough good fats.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
i think this goes into how much you are eating--what your caloric intake is right now. Fats make one feel more satiated, so you tend to eat less volumn overall, but get the same amount of calories. You can eat up to 30% of calories from fat and it's relatively easy to add it to many things. You can cook with coconut oil, as it has a high smoke point (point at which it will pervert) or you can simply toss it over things. Using different kinds of oils throughout the day is helpful. For example, i tend to do coconut in the AM, Olive at lunch, and my Udo's Blend or flax seed in the evening meal.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">my blood cholesterol is also low & my thyroid function is not great. I am on iodine & other nutrient supplementation for it right now, have been for 6 months now.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
how had that been working for you? cholesterol, fat, and thyroid function are intimately connected--so low cholesterol can lead to a number of thyroid problems (particularly in the sex hormone production process).<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I'm seeing the naturopath again in a few days, but I will mention this thread. I'm her only vegan (or shmegan, or whatever) client, so I find VB sometimes a better source of info than her when it comes to vegan nutritional/health issues.<br><br>
Thanks again.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
definately do. and don't hesitate to PM me, either, with anything you might think of or need help with. i know that the ethics of all of these things are really important to you, so i'd be happy to hammer out any ideas with you (discuss, not persuade) if you'd like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for that analysis zoebird: I saw the naturopath & she put me on 100 mg B complex 3x a day, plus said to eat lots of fats. About all the fat I get daily is from Udo's Oil (2 tbsp. in smoothies) & the coconut oil I cook with. Other than that, my diet is more whole grain organic carb & veggie intensive, although I eat around 50 g protein/day as well.<br><br>
You are right: the ethics of this matters to me. I just can't justify drinking milk, eating eaggs, or fish, or other creatures/body products, in spite of my health. I also get sick from dairy unless it's trace dairy/egg in baked goods on rare occasions.<br><br>
The naturopath said not to worry about being vegan, my liver would generate enough cholesterol if I ate lots of good fats, inc. saturated fats, but I fear she's not knowledgeable enough re vegan nutrition.<br><br>
I may pm you later this weekend re this, but I also think others can benefit from the discussion, perhaps.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,524 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>organica</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I may pm you later this weekend re this, but I also think others can benefit from the discussion, perhaps.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I would.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
i find it hard to believe that with the prevalence of a high fat diet in americans and the prevalence of depression that there is some link to a LOW fat diet. if anything, i would think the opposite, considering the state of people as they exist now and the high depression rates (where the average fat intake is upwards of 35% of calories).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>penny79</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
i find it hard to believe that with the prevalence of a high fat diet in americans and the prevalence of depression that there is some link to a LOW fat diet. if anything, i would think the opposite, considering the state of people as they exist now and the high depression rates (where the average fat intake is upwards of 35% of calories).</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
There are many problems with diet that can precipitate mental illness, including overconsumption of fats, but what I've been told by my naturopath is that I, as a vegan, am consuming TOO LITTLE fat in my diet.<br><br>
On VB, this has come up somewhere before as a possible link to why some vegans on here experience depression, anxiety, etc.<br><br><b>What I know is this</b>: one's liver converts saturated fats into cholesterol.<br><br>
Cholesterol is necessary for good mental health.<br><br><b>What is at issue is this</b>: does a vegan's liver convert fats to cholesterol in a manner adequate to prevent or resolve mental illness symptoms?<br><br>
Or should vegans follow the lead of zoebird, a former vegan who now consumes ethically-produced eggs & dairy to get the cholesterol?<br><br><br><br>
The question is still out there.<br><br>
There do seem to be a large number of people in various stages of psychiatric distress on VB, but in another thread on here it was brought up that this could also just be a reaction to being sane in an insane world of animal-killers.<br><br><br><br>
On a personal note, I'm trying to figure out how much of my diagnosis of "schizophrenia" or borderline personality disorder relates to this possible deficiency, & how much is from heavy child abuse, so I can have another go at fixing my brain.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top