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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i'm hoping that soilman will be able to weigh in here.

i was snooping around the yves veggie cuisine website tonight and came across this little tidbit their faq:

Quote:
What is casein?

Casein is one of the main proteins in milk. It helps cheese melt. The Good Slices and The Good Shreds use casein derived from microbial, not animal, sources.
not to get my hopes up or anything, because i'm sure that it's still somehow not vegan, but what is the difference between casein that comes from animal sources, and casein that comes from microbial sources?
 

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Ooh, if it is purely non-animal, that would be way cool. That's what makes the non-vegan fake cheeses melt. However, it would probably still cause the same negative bodily reactions some people get, like phlegm.
 

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Huh, that's strange.. I've heard of microbial rennet but never microbial casein before.. but if they have indeed come up with a non-animal casein, that would make me very, very happy - heck, that should revolutionize the whole veg cheese industry!
 

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Huh? I didn't see anything about casein at the yves site. What page?

The page that 1vegan cited mentions "buffered soybean-casein digest broth, " and doesn't say anything about "microbial" casein. Buffered soybean-casein digest broth sounds like it might be a broth made from a mixture of soybean protein and casein protein, that has been digested by (soy-derived, probably) enzymes. But you can't always tell what something really is by its name, can you?

It is not a good idea to assume anything about what this substance is, based on a tidbit of conversation heard out-of-context.

Casein is, by definition, milk protein.

I've never heard of "microbial rennet." What I've heard of is imitation rennet derived from soy. Imitation rennet is not rennet any more than an imitation hamburger is beef. You can call it "rennet" only in the sense that you can call a beef-flavored veggie-burger is "beef" rather than "chicken" -- you would be using the term "beef" as an abbreviation for "beef-flavored" or "beef-like." Chemically both patties have proteins and salt. So they are somewhat chemically similar. But the veggie-burgers aren't really "beef" tho if someone said which flavors do you have and you said "chicken and beef" you wouldn't be lying, would you? But even tho you simply said beef, it would be understood, hopefully, that you meant beef-like. Quoting part of your conversation out of context, outsiders might become terribly confused, thinking you were eating dead animals when you weren't.

Rennet is useful because it contains stomach enzymes that digest milk. Imitation rennet is simply proteins made from soy amino acids that function to digest milk, similarly to the way the naturally-occuring enzymes in rennt do, and may somewhat chemically resemble, but may not necessarily need to be identical to, the enzymes present in rennet. I'm not sure if micro-organims are involved in making rennetoids from soy sources. I don't think they are. I'm not sure, but I suspect they are made by mixing soy products with various chemicals. Again, non-animal rennets are not really rennet. They are rennetoids.
 

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Oh, I see, you had 2 pages linked to in your msg, Kreeli. I

From the second:

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Do Yves Veggie Cuisine products contain any animal by- products?

Our products are vegan with the exception of The Good Slices and The Good Shreds which contain casein.

Back to top

What is casein?

Casein is one of the main proteins in milk. It helps cheese melt. The Good Slices and The Good Shreds use casein derived from microbial, not animal, sources.

==============

They are contradicting themselves. A: our products are vegan except some of the contain casein. B: The casein in some of them comes from microbial, not animal, sources. A and B contradict each other.

They say the products are not vegan. I would believe them. Perhaps they are trying to say that the milk has been treated with microorganisms (or soy-derived rennetoids?) to separate the casein from the whole milk, instead of curdled (having the casein separated from the whole milk) with (animal-derived) rennet? They are obviously trying to obsfucate (err, obfuscate) something.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you very much for your responses. I wrote the company and asked them to explain the apparent contradiction in their FAQ.

Quote:
To whom it may concern:

I have enjoyed your Yves Veggie Cuisine products for many years. Your veggie "meats" have made my life as a vegan mother raising vegan children much easier by providing us with a quick source of vegetarian protein that is tasty and delicious. Thank you very much.

I have a question about your "Good Slices" and "Good Shreds" however. In your FAQ, you state that these products are not vegan, due to the ingredient casein, which is derrived from milk. However, in the FAQ you also state that the casein used in "Good Slices" and "Good Shreds" is not derrived from animal sources (which would therefore make it vegan), but instead from "microbial" sources.

This seems like a contradiction to me. I was wondering if you could explain it further. If the casein does not come from animal sources, how can it NOT be considered vegan?

I will be honest and tell you that the idea of a melt-y soy cheese containing casein that is not derrived from animal sources excites me...I have been disappointed time and again by the vegan "cheeses" that are on the market today. If you could take a few moments to explain to me exactly what the difference between animal-derrived casein and microbial-derrived casein is, I would surely appreciate it.

Thank you kindly,

Kreeli Arocoroc
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by BigWaxJesus

Have you heard anything back from them?
no! and it's funny you should ask, i was just complaining to my husband about how they hadn't gotten back to me. i think i'm going to call their 1-800 number next week, instead of emailing.

i'll let you know!
 

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yes, Kreeli! That would be cool if you could find out, cuz I have the good slice and I loved using it, but I am conflicted with feelings of guilt. But i bought it already, so the casein thing really aggravates me, it seems unfair to label something marketed towards vegans that says lactose free and then to see it is not. I hope there is a way some casein is safe, but it seems unlikely.
 

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I've seen Yves Good Slices in the grocery store and they say that they use casein derived from microbial, not animal, sources. So, would they be considered vegan?
 

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I don't know...I tried them and didn't like them as much as the Tofutti slices. The Yves slices were too "runny," if that makes any sense.

I would think that if the casein were not animal-derived, then it would indeed be vegan.
 

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OMG. This is huge! Thanks for posting. I went to their website and found this:

What is casein?

Casein is one of the main proteins in milk. It helps cheese melt. The Good Slices and The Good Shreds use casein derived from microbial, not animal, sources.

woo woo!! I do like the Yves slices, especially for toasted cheese sandwiches. yummy yummy......

amy
 

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Well, I went to the website and here what it said under the FAQ:

"Do Yves Veggie Cuisine products contain any animal by-products?"

Our products are vegan with the exception of The Good Slices and The Good Shreds which contain casein.

"What is casein?"

Casein is one of the main proteins in milk. It helps cheese melt. The Good Slices and The Good Shreds use casein derived from microbial, not animal, sources.

So they say that casein used is not from animal souces, yet the cheese is not vegan?? I don't understand.
 

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No. It's a microbial thing. I was actually going to post this as a separate thing, but this is the first thread I saw, so I'll post it here.

Microbial (my-KRO-be-ul) means it was grown with the aid of microbes, or bacteria, not extracted from dairy sources.

I sent an e-mail to Yves asking them to elaborate further on their microbial casein, as this got my interest earlier today, too. If the casein is truly derived without the use of animals, then I see no reason not to eat their new mac 'n' cheese bowl.
 
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