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If anyone here knows anything about me, it is that I hate Philip Morris/Altria/Post/Nabisco/Kraft/Red Oval Farms/Boca becuase I refuse to support Philip Morris (they own all of these).

I recently wsa discussing whether Boca products were indeed vegetarian as they never list them as such. Instead, they list them as 'meatless', which I argue could be misleading as Natural Flavorings from animal sources could be in a meatless product.

Well, I asked Boca directly about the enzymes that they use in their products. Apparently all are without animal enzymes (good news) except for one product - the Grilled Vegetable Burger which contains a special cheese which they can only get with animal enzymes.

Here is the coorespondence:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitof99 View Post

Does the cheese that you include in Boca products contain animal derived enzymes such as rennet?
Quote:
Hi Steve,

Thank you for visiting http://www.bocafoods.com/ and for your interest in Boca Foods product.

I'd be glad to help answer your question about the enzymes used in our products.

We strive to source cheeses that are made using non-animal enzymes for our products. We have determined through our suppliers that all the cheeses we use are from non-animal enzymes, except a specialty cheese used in our Grilled Vegetable burger, which has a product UPC code of (59283-55201). The cheese used in that Boca product is not currently available without the animal enzyme.

In the mean time, depending upon your dietary needs, you may wish to try any of our other Boca products. We appreciate the time you took to advise us of your concerns.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you again soon!

Kim McMiller

Associate Director, Consumer Relations
 

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thats rediculous. i dont understand why even the companies who's base supplier are those who dont eat animal flesh, they have to go and hide things like this who the average vegetarian/vegan would otherwise be blind too.

because of this betrayal, i will never touch a boca farm product.
 

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well on their website, they claim which ones are Vegan. I would guess because that one is not listed as such, that you can't guarantee it has NO animal products whatsoever. Usually vegetarian means just no meat. Vegan means to animal products whatsoever.

Soooo...they are vegetarian, they have no meat, but not vegan because of the rennet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelyheather View Post

well on their website, they claim which ones are Vegan. I would guess because that one is not listed as such, that you can't guarantee it has NO animal products whatsoever. Usually vegetarian means just no meat. Vegan means to animal products whatsoever.

Soooo...they are vegetarian, they have no meat, but not vegan because of the rennet.
Uh... last time I checked, there isn't any kind of vegetarian that eats cow stomachs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelyheather View Post

well on their website, they claim which ones are Vegan. I would guess because that one is not listed as such, that you can't guarantee it has NO animal products whatsoever. Usually vegetarian means just no meat. Vegan means to animal products whatsoever.

Soooo...they are vegetarian, they have no meat, but not vegan because of the rennet.
I almost agree if you swap a few words:

I think vegetarian means no animal by-products, fish, insect, meat, etc.

I think meatless means nothing other than made with other things besides hunks of meat.
 

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There are lot's of vegetarians who don't avoid rennet, or even know what rennet is who will eat the burger. Not to mention people who just want to cut down on their red meat intake for a variety of reasons.

There is still a market for meatless burgers that have animal sourced rennet. As long as they don't claim that it's vegetarian, I don't have a problem with it- but thank you for pointing it out!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelyheather View Post

well on their website, they claim which ones are Vegan. I would guess because that one is not listed as such, that you can't guarantee it has NO animal products whatsoever. Usually vegetarian means just no meat. Vegan means to animal products whatsoever.

Soooo...they are vegetarian, they have no meat, but not vegan because of the rennet.
Last time I checked rennet isn't vegetarian either.

ETA: The only way to get animal based rennet is to slaughter/cut open a cow. People who claim vegetarianism but still eat animal based rennet are kidding themselves. They're more like convenience vegetarians.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan_fabiani View Post

thats rediculous. i dont understand why even the companies who's base supplier are those who dont eat animal flesh, they have to go and hide things like this who the average vegetarian/vegan would otherwise be blind too.

because of this betrayal, i will never touch a boca farm product.
I despise Altria, but I don't think they "hid" anything here necessarily. When EO99 asked, the proper information was provided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by animallover7249 View Post

Rennet isn't vegetarian.
While I would agree, the more common defintion of vegetarian would probably be something like "doesn't contain meat/meat stock". Blech.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SotallyTober View Post

ETA: The only way to get animal based rennet is to slaughter/cut open a cow. People who claim vegetarianism but still eat animal based rennet are kidding themselves. They're more like convenience vegetarians.
That's too harsh, I think. Not everyone cares about trace ingredients or researching every detail of how their food is produced, especially if they are vegetarian for health or environmental reasons. It doesn't mean they're "kidding themselves" - they're just drawing their own line about how much to stress over identifying and avoiding small quantities of animal products. Other examples include worrying about whether the food was prepared with utensils that are used for meat, or whether harvesting processes cause some animal matter to be incorporated in the product.

For many vegetarians, their dietary choice is not about perfectionism, but just about making an overall positive effect. If perfect meticulousness is a requirement for vegetarianism, then there are probably no "true" vegetarians - because there is no end to things you can research to identify minute quantities of animal matter in food.
 

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What I meant to say is that there are plenty of non rennet choices out there. What kind of reason could someone possible have for choosing the burgers with rennet vs the one without? Or cheese with rennet vs cheese without? I just don't get it. I suppose it's more than just a trace ingredient for me. If there aren't any other options, say your medication is only produced in capsules that contain geletin and have been tested on animals..well I could see that. But food choices? I don't buy it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SotallyTober View Post

What I meant to say is that there are plenty of non rennet choices out there. What kind of reason could someone possible have for choosing the burgers with rennet vs the one without? Or cheese with rennet vs cheese without? I just don't get it. I suppose it's more than just a trace ingredient for me. If there aren't any other options, say your medication is only produced in capsules that contain geletin and have been tested on animals..well I could see that. But food choices? I don't buy it.
The non-rennet cheeses tend to be much more expensive. I've yet to see any mass-produced cheeses at grocery stores other than the ones by VeggieSlices, Yves, Toffuti that didn't contain rennet or enzymes. If a person shops at Aldi or Save-A-Lot for most of their food, they won't find any of these specialty cheeses. (I could be missing some big portion of the cheese market here. Maybe there's a kind of mass-produced cheese that doesn't contain rennet or enzymes.) While it's not good to eat a LOT of cheese, I think it's legit to shop at those discount stores, buy some of their cheese, and call yourself a vegetarian.

It would mean virtually never eating cheese when at a restaurant. Or eating cheese pizza with friends. Or eating veggie lasagna at a family dinner. It'd be a lot more like veganism than most lacto-ovo vegetarians I know would want to embrace. Not that they're uninterested in moving in that direction, but not everyone is ready to cut out dairy and eggs yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post

The non-rennet cheeses tend to be much more expensive. I've yet to see any mass-produced cheeses at grocery stores other than the ones by VeggieSlices, Yves, Toffuti that didn't contain rennet or enzymes. If a person shops at Aldi or Save-A-Lot for most of their food, they won't find any of these specialty cheeses. (I could be missing some big portion of the cheese market here. Maybe there's a kind of mass-produced cheese that doesn't contain rennet or enzymes.) While it's not good to eat a LOT of cheese, I think it's legit to shop at those discount stores, buy some of their cheese, and call yourself a vegetarian.

It would mean virtually never eating cheese when at a restaurant. Or eating cheese pizza with friends. Or eating veggie lasagna at a family dinner. It'd be a lot more like veganism than most lacto-ovo vegetarians I know would want to embrace. Not that they're uninterested in moving in that direction, but not everyone is ready to cut out dairy and eggs yet.
That's not true wrt price. Many (nearly all) of Kraft cheeses, for example are free from animal rennet. Sargento is mostly animal-rennet free as well. Non animal parmesan and romano are pretty difficult to find, but other than that, I was able to go rennet free just at the regular grocery store.
 

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when i was a vegetarian the idea of eating any part of a dead animal made me feel sick.

however food over heres excellent at being labelled and veggie cheese is easy to find in supermarkets

if unsure how hard is it to ask in a resteraunt what is on pizza, or just cope with a cheeseless one - not hard!

anyway each to thier own
 

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There are plenty of "rennet" threads where those of us who don't care if something contains rennet explain why. Bottom line, it's a byproduct. Just the dairy itself causes 1000 times more harm and suffering to cows than the rennet production which is just a byproduct of already killed cows -- if you're concerned about rennet, be concerned about not eating cheese and dairy first. (Assuming we're talking about standard dairy and not small family farm dairy).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamJen View Post

That's not true wrt price. Many (nearly all) of Kraft cheeses, for example are free from animal rennet. Sargento is mostly animal-rennet free as well. Non animal parmesan and romano are pretty difficult to find, but other than that, I was able to go rennet free just at the regular grocery store.
Then I will have to take another look. Every time I have looked at grocery store cheese ingredients, it contained either enzymes or rennet. My understanding of enzymes is it is frequently from animal sources like stomaches, etc.
 

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But Kraft & Sargento & Velveeta (etc) are all gross. They're bland, gummy, and weird "cheese".

Seusomon continues to be a voice of many on VB and I have to agree with him. Vegetarian cheese using rennet is still vegetarian. It's just as vegetarian as eggs or milk. Animals die to produce eggs & milk, just as they die to produce rennet for cheese. But many still consider someone who consumes eggs to be veg.
 
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