Well, animal blood and bones would be more of a byproduct, but since they do come from dead animals, I don't see how its use could be considered vegetarian. Can you elaborate on why are you thinking they might be considered vegetarian or vegan? I would think there would be the same ethical issues as other byproducts like gelatin, except that you aren't eating it but rather putting it on your garden. I would bet there are alternatives for gardening, although they might not be quite as good. I have heard of people using menstrual blood, but that may or may not be readily available to you.. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""><br><br>
It's your choice whether or not you want to use it, of course, but I wouldn't expect anyone around here to encourage you. As you know, there are no veggie police, so if you ultimately decide to use animal products on your garden despite alternatives being available, no one is going to keep you from calling yourself a vegetarian.
Thanks, I don’t wont to look like a hypercritic on this matter. And I should not have said vegan to start with because I don’t think I will ever go fully vegan as I am an organic market gardener for one which means I use a lot of other animal byproducts like animal manure, worm wee and honey to name a few and it would be ridicules for me not to use them and I also use as much road kill as I can get which i use in my homemade methane digester which produces large amounts of brown gas for the house and large amounts of organic biomass that goes on the garden like compost. So should I use some animal byproducts but not others? were do I draw the line? How far is too far and how far is not far enough?
Animal products being used to grow fruits/vegetables is generally seen as a grey area by vegans. A lot of produce we buy at the store may have been grown with blood/bone/fish meal and it can be virtually impossible to tell sometimes. Vegans avoid animal products as much as is <i>possible and practical</i> so in cases like this most people don't worry about it.<br><br>
Fertilizers are a byproduct of the meat industry as well rather than a direct product. There's a quote from Vegan Action I like about byproducts and where to draw the line:<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">"The vegan lifestyle is an ongoing progression. Everyone should go at their own pace and remember that all steps towards veganism are positive. It is most important to focus on avoiding the products for which animals are bred and slaughtered. Animal by-products will exist as long as there is a demand for primary meat and dairy products. When it comes to avoiding items that contain small amounts of byproducts, vegans must decide for themselves where to draw the line. Some vegans will adjust their level of abstinence according to the circumstances. For example, as a consumer, you might make sure the bread you buy is not made with whey; but as a dinner guest, you may accept bread without asking to see the ingredients. These types of compromises can actually hasten the spread of veganism, in that they help counter the attitude that it's very hard to be vegan."</div>
There's a lively debate going on about that subject here, maybe some posts can give you some insights: <a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/showthread.php?132913-some-vegetables-aren-t-vegan-because-they-are-a-by-product-of-fish-farming" target="_blank">http://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/sh...f-fish-farming</a><br><br>
And I'll end by saying that if you're up to it Veganic (vegan organic) gardening is an option. There's some good info on how to go about it here: <a href="http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/home-and-garden/vegan-organic-gardening.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyl...gardening.aspx</a>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Vegman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3103118"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
So should I use some animal byproducts but not others? were do I draw the line? How far is too far and how far is not far enough?</div>
These are all good questions that you should think seriously about. No one here can make these decisions for you. The best thing you can do is educate yourself about where your various animal products are coming from, how they might impact the animals, and if there are suitable alternatives.<br><br>
Manure I see almost no issues with as it is something that needs to be removed anyway. Honey is no big deal for me as I don't see insects as sentient beings. Roadkill..well, that's already dead, so no harm done there. I wouldn't consider it "vegan," but it seems perfectly ethical to me to use the body of an animal that is already dead due to an accident.<br><br>
Blood and bone that came from livestock killed for profit seems fundamentally different. Are you paying for it, or is it something that would be thrown away? If you're paying for it, you are in a small way making the slaughter of those animals more profitable. But, if it's something that is very necessary for your gardening and there are absolutely no alternatives, I could see using it. I would do some more homework though and find out what your alternatives might be.
I am not going to use blood and bone meal for my plants, i found a website that offers some good alternative's:<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2001/08/08/green.DTL&ao=all" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...een.DTL&ao=all</a>
<p>Blood and bone meal keep rodents out of the garden so does planting marigolds. We had a bad problem with rabbits and this was the only way to keep them out, well there are other ways but did not want go that far. Our garden is our source for the winter months here and in Israel. </p>
<p>I have personally never had to use animal byproducts on my garden over the last two years of growing one (and three for my herb plants). Long before I started my first garden my husband and I started a compost pile with dead leaves, grass clippings, and vegan vegetable food scraps and he built the bin. This is what we used to help the soil for our garden. no fertilizer. We put together a mesh wire fence around the garden, starting it way underground, and it has kept rabbits, skunks, racoons, mice and rats, squirrels, and deer out. We get occasional bird visitors but they rarely disturb our plants. I also rely on keeping some of my produce over the winter. I have never had trouble with my plants, except a pepper plant that wouldn't grow much but that was because a nearby squash plant overtook it. We don't have the greatest soil but it serves it's purpose. We also do not rake up the leaves from our apple tree in the Fall, but leave them on the ground and I think that has helped our soil and grass over the years.</p>
<p>Though I personally avoid buying bone meal and animal derived fertilizer for my own garden, I do understand that even the organic food I buy at Farmers markets and Whole Foods stores is probably grown using manure and bone meal and I don't sweat over that. I still have to eat and my garden isn't big enough to provide for all my needs over a very long Minnesota winter. I probably feel worse when buying products from companies like Dole because I know that they have a less than stellar record of how they treat their labor and what they put on their produce. But sometimes that's ALL I can find of some products like bananas unless I just don't consume them. Sighs.</p>
<p>Based on your pictures, I would tend to thing you have experience planting with bone and blood. Maybe I am wrong, but wouldn't it depend on the type of blood and bone in the soil to keep animals away. Not sure an elephant is going to be worried about a rabbit foot near the plants he wants to get to. </p>
<p>Thanks for helping me understand what type of products you are using to keep the animals away.</p>
A forum community dedicated to vegetarian, vegans, and vegetable enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about agriculture, preparation, cooking, recipes, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!