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My uncle and aunt have honey bees. We buy our honey from them. To my knowlige this is why vegens dont eat honey, becouse honey farmers kill queen bees to have more control over the hive. Well I asked my uncle if he ever killed his bees(queen or worker) and he said he had never heard of such a thing and that he would never do such a thing and dont see the reason why people would.

So, with this knowlige i see nothing wrong with the production of honey. The bees are free to go where they like, and the human only takes part of the honey which leaves plenty left over for the bees to have. So, if no bees are harmed in the makeing of honey why dont vegans eat it?
 

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I had a teacher in high school who kept bee's and I asked him about this. He said that many commercial (and some smaller) honey producers kill their bee's between seasons because it's more economical.

Concerning your aunt and uncle, you could roughly compare it to them personally raising a cow for milk and treating it humanely; which, depending on the reason you're vegan (health vs. moral...etc) could make consuming the milk (honey) acceptable. Though it wouldn't, technically speaking, be vegan.
 

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I think, as with many animal rights issues, that's a question of small private farms vs factory farms. That's like asking if someone with pet chickens who just leave their unfertilized eggs lying around would be immoral in grabbing those eggs to eat. Most people (even vegans) would probably not have a problem with that, but that's not where 99% of eggs actually come from.

Here's a link someone shared with me on the honey subject:

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

--Fromper

 

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I agree that honey is not vegan, largely due to information I've read such as Fromper linked to. I have noticed that there are many "vegans" who are trying to say it is OK (even an article in Satya magazine
) because people think you're "extreme" if you include that in veganism. Well, since the founder and creator of the term vegan included honey as on the no-no list, I don't see how there's any argument
 

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I think the clincher for me (because I was undecided for a while) is that bees are LIVING CREATURES/ANIMALS.

it's as simple as that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quincy View Post

I think the clincher for me (because I was undecided for a while) is that bees are LIVING CREATURES/ANIMALS.

it's as simple as that.
Yup. The bees collect the pollen to convert into honey to feed themselves. So by taking their honey, you are taking THEIR food supply. And you know how much work goes into building the combs, so by taking that for wax and the honey for food, you are exploiting their work. They are killed so as not to sacrifice any honey profit for the bees' needs. (Sounds like The Bees Knee -and WTH is a bee's knee anyway???)

Now, there is a parasite, or 2, that is killing off wild bee colonies. So my understanding is that at this point bees need to be "kept" in order to pollenate crops and keep them parasite free. It's complicated - and a mess.
 

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Thanks everybody, because my mum was wondering the same thing - I hardly ever eat honey anyway but she does more often...I bought honey and lemon cordial yesterday as well because I had a sore throat and it was reduced+discount...

Yesterday was not a good day for my vegan quest!
 

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Not all vegans avoid honey because the bees are killed. Some have moral systems that prohibit exploiting other living creatures no matter what. Bees make honey for bees -- to imprison them and take their honey is wrong, no matter how nicely they're kept. In this moral system, keeping bees and taking their honey is akin to keeping human slaves and benefitting from their labor. Even if they're treated nicely and not killed, it's still slavery.
 

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Originally Posted by Medesha View Post

Not all vegans avoid honey because the bees are killed. Some have moral systems that prohibit exploiting other living creatures no matter what. Bees make honey for bees -- to imprison them and take their honey is wrong, no matter how nicely they're kept. In this moral system, keeping bees and taking their honey is akin to keeping human slaves and benefitting from their labor. Even if they're treated nicely and not killed, it's still slavery.
Nicely stated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medesha View Post

Not all vegans avoid honey because the bees are killed. Some have moral systems that prohibit exploiting other living creatures no matter what. Bees make honey for bees -- to imprison them and take their honey is wrong, no matter how nicely they're kept. In this moral system, keeping bees and taking their honey is akin to keeping human slaves and benefitting from their labor. Even if they're treated nicely and not killed, it's still slavery.
 

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Bees make honey for themselves as a perfect food full of the nutrients that they need and then beekeepers take that away and replace it with a cheap sugary substitute.

I like to compare it to if everyday I spent long hours making a nutritious meal for me and my family and then someone replaced it with kool-aid and high fructose corn syrup.

It wouldn't be fair.
 

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Hot damn but maple syrup is good! (The real stuff, not that awful stuff they sometimes serve in cafes. You know, that "maple flavoured syrup" stuff.)
 

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Originally Posted by Kiz View Post

Hot damn but maple syrup is good! (The real stuff, not that awful stuff they sometimes serve in cafes. You know, that "maple flavoured syrup" stuff.)
Ugh, yeah that stuff is nasty. I'm Canadian and my (American) boyfriend always likes to make fun of my absolute love of maple syrup as a sweetener. I blame it on my heritage!
 

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What about ppl (like me) who dont consider insects to be 'animals'? Bees and beetles? Just a question. What should I call myself? Obviously I cant say Im a vegan for that reason, but every other aspect of my life and diet is vegan. Any ideas? Am I just being stubborn?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnett View Post

What about ppl (like me) who dont consider insects to be 'animals'? Bees and beetles? Just a question. What should I call myself? Obviously I cant say Im a vegan for that reason, but every other aspect of my life and diet is vegan. Any ideas? Am I just being stubborn?
Regradless of whether you personally consider insects to be animals, they are. You could call yourself a strict vegetarian maybe...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnett View Post

What about ppl (like me) who dont consider insects to be 'animals'?
I consider people like you taxonomically challenged. And that's the politically correct word for something I can't post here.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnett View Post

What about ppl (like me) who dont consider insects to be 'animals'? Bees and beetles? Just a question. What should I call myself? Obviously I cant say Im a vegan for that reason, but every other aspect of my life and diet is vegan. Any ideas? Am I just being stubborn?
Just out of curiosity, if bees and beetles are not animals, which of the following 5 kingdoms do they belong to? And why?

Animals

Plants

Fungi

Protista

Monera

*For the picky science geek types out there: I am aware that the 5 Kingdoms are now technically obsolete due to the adoption of the 3 Domain system, but the information in them remains correct.
 
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