[all.actions.speak]

LONG POST WARNING. Skip if you have better things to do besides read about my struggles living with an omni dad (I don't blame you!)

So, I have recently moved back in with my parents after graduating college. My dad is very health conscious, and generally veg-friendly, but still very much an omni. My mom is an omni who loves animals and definitely struggles with her morals about eating them. She eats mostly vegetarian because she doesn't care to cook or buy groceries so many of her meals are veg since that's how I prepare them! My teenage sister is a picky eater/"vegetarian" who enjoys a diet of mostly junk food. That means my dad is the only one who prepares any kind of meat in the house.

Over the summer, my dad purchased live lobsters and cooked them in our home. My mom and I were extremely distressed, and explicitly expressed our feelings of anxiety and discomfort. Since becoming vegetarian/vegan, the preparation of (LIVE) seafood in my home obviously causes me stress, on top of already finding the sensory aspects disgusting and intolerable. I don't care for it when my dad cooks any meat, but when he prepares seafood, I find the process especially sickening, and the smells send me to my room for the rest of the day. For days afterward, I find it difficult to be in the kitchen, where the smells linger and the leftovers stare me in the face.

Even though my mom and I begged him last time to never bring home lobster again to prepare here, today he came home in a great mood from the grocery store; proudly displaying the mussels, shrimp, salmon, and live lobsters he had purchased. I immediately got very distressed; asking him why he would do this when he knows it upsets me so much. My mom agreed and also pointed out that since my dad never cleans up after his seafood feasts (or most meals), my mom would be forced to clean up after a complex and extremely messy meal that she found offensive. She and my dad got in a huge fight, as she proposed donating the lobsters to a food shelter. My dad was infuriated at this suggestion (the wasted money, his feelings about being denied the opportunity to eat a desired food in his own house, and the fact that he can't appreciate our position as being rational). He stormed off.

My mom called to offer the lobsters to our neighbors, which we promptly brought over to them. My dad went on a long run immediately after the fight, and since then has not spoken to any of us. He is not one to use the silent treatment or hold a grudge, so this is kind of unusual. He also didn't end up preparing anything for dinner at all, which is not like him. My mom feels conflicted about what happened, but I insist that if we weigh one person's tastebuds and preference for a desired food against the prospect of extreme discomfort and anxiety for two others (plus extra cleaning and work for my mom), that it is not an unreasonable request.

I feel guilty for causing my dad to be upset all day, but I also feel like he needs to respect where I'm coming from. I don't stop him from eating the majority of animal products he chooses. I may make comments, or encourage him towards veggie options, but I have never thrown down the gauntlet like this before. I was surprised and thankful to have my mom backing me up this time- not killing animals in the house where we live, I think this is a fair line to draw! Even though I can't expect him to agree or understand the morals, I just want him to want to avoid causing us so much distress!

Has anyone been through a similar situation? How have you handled living with omnis when you are the sole vegan? When you are living with omni parents (not paying rent)? Have you had success with setting boundaries?

 

[Purp]

Perhaps you should start cooking the meals, at least once a week, so these things don't happen, and so your father is off the "seafood" hook. Good luck.

 

[all.actions.speak]

Ahh yes, this is definitely a valid suggestion. I do try to prepare vegan meals for the family, but my father works until past 9pm most nights and so he eats on a different schedule than the rest of us. We only really eat meals together on the weekends (if then). I'm also challenged by the fact that he loves to cook simply for pleasure and relaxation. Sometimes when I prepare a vegan meal he will taste it, say it's good, and then proceed to cook whatever he wants. The best success I have had is when I can encourage him to make meals that he already likes that happen to be vegan, like stir fry with veggies and tofu. That way, we both get to share in the prep and enjoy the result!

 

[whisper]

~

 

[LedBoots]

That is a really disgusting display of food to bring home, I must say. Do you think he wanted to bring things to a head because of the recent discussions about his having seafood in the house? He may feel ganged up on by you and your mother, especially if he is paying the bills and you guys just gave away a hundred bucks worth of his food. That is what he is probably thinking about while he is so quiet.

 

[Clueless Git]

'Lo A.A.S.

Question; Is your dad the only male in the household?

 

[azerea_02]

I have a rant of my own, but since this thread is pretty spot on with my situation, I'm using this one.

I've been living at two of my friends' house since my ex broke up with me back in august. I'm just renting their guest bedroom until the end of this month actually, before I move again. Anyway, the other day I came home and as soon as I set foot inside I knew they had cooked seafood for dinner. But it really smelled like shrimp and so tried not to think about it too much and put it out of my mind. (and opened the window in my bedroom for a good half hour even though it was cold).

Well last night I was at a friend's house for a girls' night. One of the friends with whom I'm staying was there as well. Well throughout the evening, I of course endured typical everyone-against-the-vegan situations talking about dairy and how healthy it is for you and how the vegan recipe my friend had made would be so much better with some kind of cheese on it, etc. And then I learned that the seafood smell from the other day? My friend and her bf had made lobster. LIVE lobster. They boiled it alive!!! I was devestated. She's a very sensitive person and calls herself an animal lover, yet she directly killed an animal with her own hands, literally! I just don't get it!!

Someone asked how long it takes to cook that way and I blurted out "more like how long does it take for them to die!". I know it was mean and judgemental, and usually I bite my tongue, but I guess I was more sensitive that day and it HAD been building up with all the previous conversations that night.

I had gotten a ride there from my friend, but at that point, I just wanted to leave so that I could cry privately. So I left and and took the bus home. Even if I had stayed, I wouldn't have been cheery or any kind of good company anyway.

Now though, the house has a new taint to it...like a murder house or something, ya know? Plus, I now see my friend a little differently too. Which is bad! We've been friends for over 12 years! I love her to pieces. But being sensitized and aware of all the cruelty to animals issues has affected my perception of people.

 

[Josh James xVx]

I think there's a difference between the type of person who happens to eat meat, but wouldn't be able to kill it themselves, let alone boil it alive, and the type who does. There's all different levels of differences, too. There's hunters who are opposed to factory farms, and others who aren't. There's people who would never hunt but happily eat factory farmed meat, not knowing where it comes from. There's others who learn the truth and will never change no matter what. But to bring an animal home that was caged its entire life, and to boil it alive in the presence of people who would almost certainly be horrified by that...I don't know. That seems to lack empathy of any kind, not only for the animal but for the humans that person lives with who are clearly opposed to what he's doing. Maybe from his perspective this is all some kind of weird fad you're going through and he doesn't realize just how horrible it seems to you. Or maybe he figures "my house, my rules". Some people are like that. Either way, it's entirely possible that if he's unwilling to back off on this issue that there's gonna be some real family problems for you down the road. I don't pity you one bit. I grew up in a broken family and it's getting more broken all the time, and some of my life choices haven't helped that, but if you're like me then you'll stand your ground and keep practicing what you believe in...come what may. And what may come, will. Trust me on that.

 

[SadieP]

No need to apologize for long posts -- sometimes it just makes you feel better to get it all out in written words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whisper

Maybe you could see if there is a way to compromise. Maybe when he wants seafood, he could cook it at a friends house. He could offer the friend a free home cooked meal in exchange for cooking it at their home.
Of if he insists on cooking it at home, see if he will pay for you and your mom to eat out (so you don't have to see what he is doing) and he has to clean up everything himself before you guys get back home.

This is along the lines of what I was going to say. Compromise is a great problem-solver -- my family and I had to arrive at some compromises when I went veg', as I was still living with them. This is kinda how it went: When my mom wanted to make something that contained meat (pasta sauce, soup, etc.), she would set aside a portion of that particular food before she added the meat. Then I could have a vegetarian version of the meal she prepared, while the rest of my family ate what they wanted to eat. And when the entree itself was a type of meat, in which case nothing could be done to make it vegetarian, I'd simply make something for myself or order out. That way everyone was happy.

But honestly, this wasn't the norm. For the most part, we had vegetarian dinners while I was living at home. My family was really accommodating, mostly because they don't eat as much meat as they used to, mainly for health reasons.

I'm so sorry about your family's recent argument -- can only imagine how difficult that must have been. But do you think a compromise like the ones whisper and I described might be doable? Maybe there could be a no-kill policy in your home -- in the future, if your dad wants lobster, maybe it would have to be pre-prepared. I totally understand that it will be difficult to see it in your home at all, knowing what the animal went through. But at least you wouldn't have to see it done in your kitchen, and your dad could still eat what he likes. Any compromise you arrive at will need to entail mutual respect for each other's feelings. Best of luck, A.A.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by azerea_02

I have a rant of my own, but since this thread is pretty spot on with my situation, I'm using this one.

I've been living at two of my friends' house since my ex broke up with me back in august. I'm just renting their guest bedroom until the end of this month actually, before I move again. Anyway, the other day I came home and as soon as I set foot inside I knew they had cooked seafood for dinner. But it really smelled like shrimp and so tried not to think about it too much and put it out of my mind. (and opened the window in my bedroom for a good half hour even though it was cold).

Well last night I was at a friend's house for a girls' night. One of the friends with whom I'm staying was there as well. Well throughout the evening, I of course endured typical everyone-against-the-vegan situations talking about dairy and how healthy it is for you and how the vegan recipe my friend had made would be so much better with some kind of cheese on it, etc. And then I learned that the seafood smell from the other day? My friend and her bf had made lobster. LIVE lobster. They boiled it alive!!! I was devestated. She's a very sensitive person and calls herself an animal lover, yet she directly killed an animal with her own hands, literally! I just don't get it!!

Someone asked how long it takes to cook that way and I blurted out "more like how long does it take for them to die!". I know it was mean and judgemental, and usually I bite my tongue, but I guess I was more sensitive that day and it HAD been building up with all the previous conversations that night.

I had gotten a ride there from my friend, but at that point, I just wanted to leave so that I could cry privately. So I left and and took the bus home. Even if I had stayed, I wouldn't have been cheery or any kind of good company anyway.

Now though, the house has a new taint to it...like a murder house or something, ya know? Plus, I now see my friend a little differently too. Which is bad! We've been friends for over 12 years! I love her to pieces. But being sensitized and aware of all the cruelty to animals issues has affected my perception of people.

Wow, azerea, that must have been so hard.

Yeah, it's really easy to feel differently about people after you make the switch to veg*nism. For me, it's been an ongoing exercise in not being judgmental. An important part of living a humane lifestyle is acting mercifully toward people as well as animals, and trust me, I know it's hard -- animals are inherently innocent. People who are beyond childhood and who are mentally capable individuals can no longer be classified as inherently innocent. What you have to keep in mind is that many people simply haven't taken the time to reconsider the ethical implications of what they find to be normal -- in this case, eating animals. The best way to change minds and hearts is to quietly lead by example. You never know -- one day, your friends might realize how happy your lifestyle makes you, and they could start asking you sincere questions in order to find out more.

 

[all.actions.speak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LedBoots

That is a really disgusting display of food to bring home, I must say. Do you think he wanted to bring things to a head because of the recent discussions about his having seafood in the house? He may feel ganged up on by you and your mother, especially if he is paying the bills and you guys just gave away a hundred bucks worth of his food. That is what he is probably thinking about while he is so quiet.

He probably does feel like we're attacking him, and maybe we could have handled the situation differently. While I am usually pretty good about keeping my strong opinions to myself around strangers and acquaintances, I find it harder to do this in my home with my famiy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clueless Git

'Lo A.A.S.

Question; Is your dad the only male in the household?

Yes, except for our pets!

Quote:

Originally Posted by azerea_02

Well last night I was at a friend's house for a girls' night. One of the friends with whom I'm staying was there as well. Well throughout the evening, I of course endured typical everyone-against-the-vegan situations talking about dairy and how healthy it is for you and how the vegan recipe my friend had made would be so much better with some kind of cheese on it, etc. And then I learned that the seafood smell from the other day? My friend and her bf had made lobster. LIVE lobster. They boiled it alive!!! I was devestated. She's a very sensitive person and calls herself an animal lover, yet she directly killed an animal with her own hands, literally! I just don't get it!!

Someone asked how long it takes to cook that way and I blurted out "more like how long does it take for them to die!". I know it was mean and judgemental, and usually I bite my tongue, but I guess I was more sensitive that day and it HAD been building up with all the previous conversations that night.

I had gotten a ride there from my friend, but at that point, I just wanted to leave so that I could cry privately. So I left and and took the bus home. Even if I had stayed, I wouldn't have been cheery or any kind of good company anyway.

Now though, the house has a new taint to it...like a murder house or something, ya know? Plus, I now see my friend a little differently too. Which is bad! We've been friends for over 12 years! I love her to pieces. But being sensitized and aware of all the cruelty to animals issues has affected my perception of people.

Wow, thank you for sharing this. It helps to hear that other people struggle with strong visceral reactions to this process as well. I completely understand why you felt the need to blurt out that comment and then had to leave early. It's so hard to ignore those feelings, and to put on a cheerful face and socialize. It's not so easy to just pretend like it isn't happening, when the smells are surrounding you and everyone is talking about the meal. I have been invited to dinner parties where the steak was all anyone wanted to discuss at the table: makes it hard to have a good time when you're just sitting there trying not to say anything to offend the hostess, but all the guests are offending you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh James xVx

But to bring an animal home that was caged its entire life, and to boil it alive in the presence of people who would almost certainly be horrified by that...I don't know. That seems to lack empathy of any kind, not only for the animal but for the humans that person lives with who are clearly opposed to what he's doing. Maybe from his perspective this is all some kind of weird fad you're going through and he doesn't realize just how horrible it seems to you. Or maybe he figures "my house, my rules". Some people are like that. Either way, it's entirely possible that if he's unwilling to back off on this issue that there's gonna be some real family problems for you down the road. I don't pity you one bit. I grew up in a broken family and it's getting more broken all the time, and some of my life choices haven't helped that, but if you're like me then you'll stand your ground and keep practicing what you believe in...come what may. And what may come, will. Trust me on that.

I think you have a good point. My dad honestly doesn't seem able to empathize with my situation. Although he doesnt really understand it, for the most part he's fine with me being a vegan, and will purchase soy milk, tofu, and other specific grocery items that he knows I will like. However, he definitely wants to prepare and eat what he likes, and since it's his house he does not take kindly to anyone trying to stop him from doing that. He just can't or won't see animals as sentient, or experiencing pain; or even if he begrudgingly admits that they experience pain, his beliefs about the food chain hierarchy/ "circle of life"/ "God put these animals here for us..." mean that he just doesn't see where I'm coming from, and therefore my objections just do not seem rational to him. I try to focus not on the morality issue, but asking him just to think about my feelings as his daughter, but it's a tough road. I will stand my ground as you said, and try to settle for compromises while I live here to keep the peace as best I can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadieP

I'm so sorry about your family's recent argument -- can only imagine how difficult that must have been. But do you think a compromise like the ones whisper and I described might be doable? Maybe there could be a no-kill policy in your home -- in the future, if your dad wants lobster, maybe it would have to be pre-prepared. I totally understand that it will be difficult to see it in your home at all, knowing what the animal went through. But at least you wouldn't have to see it done in your kitchen, and your dad could still eat what he likes. Any compromise you arrive at will need to entail mutual respect for each other's feelings. Best of luck, A.A.S.

I think this is definitely the compromise I would be willing to accept. As much as I hate seeing any kind of meat or seafood prepared, the actual killing process is just above and beyond what I can handle in my house, and I don't think it's too much to ask of my dad that he enjoy that one food only in restaurants or only when not purchased live. I don't want to paint my dad as completely closed-minded, because as with your family, he will sometimes section out parts of dishes for me before adding meat or cheese. But we still both have a ways to go with understanding where each person is coming from; hopefully time will make this easier! Thank you for your support!

 

[Forster]

Well I really think the argument needs to between your mom and dad. It's their home.

You can let your dad know it bothers you and why it bothers you when he does such stuff, but that's really it, let it go and concentrate on making a life and a home for yourself where you can live in harmony with your values. It's called respect, even when one disagrees with an others choices. If he's wanting to do it anyway... make other plans for the evening.

And yeah I think your dad was wrong too, your mom asked him not to bring live lobster home again and he did anyway. If he was going to do it he should have done it when she wasn't going to be eating at home. Maybe next time he does this you and your mom should plan a night out together. But to reiterate don't gang up on him, it's between your folks.

 

[all.actions.speak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forster

Well I really think the argument needs to between your mom and dad. It's their home.

You can let your dad know it bothers you and why it bothers you when he does such stuff, but that's really it, let it go and concentrate on making a life and a home for yourself where you can live in harmony with your values. It's called respect, even when one disagrees with an others choices. If he's wanting to do it anyway... make other plans for the evening.

And yeah I think your dad was wrong too, your mom asked him not to bring live lobster home again and he did anyway. If he was going to do it he should have done it when she wasn't going to be eating at home. Maybe next time he does this you and your mom should plan a night out together. But to reiterate don't gang up on him, it's between your folks.

Thank you for this input, you definitely make some valid points that I need to take into consideration. Since I moved out of a situation where I shared an apartment for two years with a vegetarian and an omni who just ate frozen ready-meals for dinner every night, it has been hard for me to readjust to living with someone who cooks elaborate meat-based meals. I probably need to reevaluate my expectations and learn to keep some of my opinions to myself, at least while I live under his roof. I'm sure that after 61 years of eating a certain way, he must find it very hard to give up what he enjoys to accommodate my lifestyle choices. It's certainly a good idea to stay out of disputes and to let them work this out as a couple (this is something I struggle with doing in non-food related arguments as well!).

However, since my mom is in agreement with me about the lobster, I really hope that this at least is a change he can bring himself to make. I agree with you on the respect issue, nevertheless, I find it very difficult to accept the idea that his momentary pleasure from preparing and eating a particular food negates the rights of two other people to be physically comfortable in their own home; basically forcing them to leave. But sometimes we have to live with situations we find unfair, so I guess all I can do is hope for the best!

 

[Forster]

Oh I understand both you and you mom's point of view. I just identify with your dad's more. My daughter will be moving back into our home after she graduates college in May until she saves some money and hopefully lines up work. I'd blow a gasket if she and my wife ganged up and started "nagging" me about things I enjoyed doing. I can be reasoned with but holy **** I'd blow up if I bought something I thought was delicious for dinner only to find out the Mrs. gave it away. Refusing to eat it would have a much better impact on changing my behavior... just saying.

 

[jessickah]

Honestly, i think your dad should be able to cook a meal he wants in his own home if he cleans it up after....
i understand its against your beliefs (and mine as well), but i'm assuming your dad works and pays for atleast part of the bills and such?
maybe he could cook his meal once a week and you+mom can go out to eat and eat a vegan friendly dinner? (so you don't have to smell it blech)
just a thought.

 

[all.actions.speak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessickah

Honestly, i think your dad should be able to cook a meal he wants in his own home if he cleans it up after....
i understand its against your beliefs (and mine as well), but i'm assuming your dad works and pays for atleast part of the bills and such?
maybe he could cook his meal once a week and you+mom can go out to eat and eat a vegan friendly dinner? (so you don't have to smell it blech)
just a thought.

That would be a nice compromise! And I would totally go for it.

Unfortunately, it is neither the case that we get advanced warning about when he plans to cook these meals, or that he cleans up afterwards. For example, he prepared the rest of his seafood purchases at 8pm tonight, after everyone else had already eaten dinner. He also fell asleep in front of the television, leaving the entire kitchen a mess (and waking him does not mean he would suddenly leap to the kitchen to clean up, based on years of experience). Pots with liquid, plates with leftovers, oil all over the stove range, and grill trays with fish still stuck to them. And needless to say, the entire first floor smells disgusting. Since neither my mom or I seem motivated to clean up at 11pm after a meal we didn't eat, everything will be left there until someone gives in tomorrow and does it. It's a frustrating situation, and it's really hard to respect his right to eat meals he likes, when in doing so he doesn't follow basic guidelines for considering other members of the household. But obviously, it doesn't matter because he's the dad and he'll do what he wants either way. While I am grateful for all that he has provided, I just find it really challenging to share a home with him at the moment. Sorry for the rant!

 

[Werewolf Girl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by all.actions.speak

That would be a nice compromise! And I would totally go for it.

Unfortunately, it is neither the case that we get advanced warning about when he plans to cook these meals, or that he cleans up afterwards. For example, he prepared the rest of his seafood purchases at 8pm tonight, after everyone else had already eaten dinner. He also fell asleep in front of the television, leaving the entire kitchen a mess (and waking him does not mean he would suddenly leap to the kitchen to clean up, based on years of experience). Pots with liquid, plates with leftovers, oil all over the stove range, and grill trays with fish still stuck to them. And needless to say, the entire first floor smells disgusting. Since neither my mom or I seem motivated to clean up at 11pm after a meal we didn't eat, everything will be left there until someone gives in tomorrow and does it. It's a frustrating situation, and it's really hard to respect his right to eat meals he likes, when in doing so he doesn't follow basic guidelines for considering other members of the household. But obviously, it doesn't matter because he's the dad and he'll do what he wants either way. While I am grateful for all that he has provided, I just find it really challenging to share a home with him at the moment. Sorry for the rant!

That's incredibly disrespectful, yeesh! He may not be able to wrap his head around why boiling animals alive bothers you, but at the VERY least he should be able to understand how rude it is to leave the kitchen filthy with fish stuff everywhere and expect your mom to clean it up. That's not a matter that requires empathy, just common sense and basic manners.

 

[Joan Kennedy]

It doesn't work to move back home and then try to impose food rules on either of your parents. Your father is buying you vegan groceries, and that's more compromise than many people would make in his situation. Is this the kind of argument that your parents would have had while you were going up, or is your omni mother taking this stance because of you? I f she's like many parents she could be using your veganism to drive a wedge between you and your father. Parents do that kind of thing to their kids all the time, even when they don't realize they're doing it. It's like having a kid back home disturbs a balance that forces them to face conflicts they had been papering over, if they had been in the habit of working around their crap instead of working through it. To restore their old balance, either the two of them will gang up on you about something, or one of them will enlist you as an ally to gang up on the other parent. Food is a classic weapon in those mind games, and you need to stand strong if you find you are being used in this way. You don't want your being there to be why your father's life is starting to suck. Just use the whole mess as motivation to get out on your own as soon as you possibly can.

 

[all.actions.speak]

@ Werewolf Girl: thank you! it's extremely frustrating!

@ Joan Kennedy: I agree with your reminder as to the fact that my dad buys vegan groceries, which could be considered a compromise already. As said before, I am very grateful that he has taken those steps. In terms of the conflict, I was involved but unfortunately it's not the case that my parents' fighting is something new, or that disputes about the kitchen are new. They would happen with or without me. I'm sure that my mom was partially trying to avoid a large mess, and that was a motivating factor. However, I also think she truly did object to the process of killing the lobster in her home, as she repeated comments she had also made months ago about not wanting to live in a "slaughterhouse" or "cause any creature a slow painful death." But this experience has definitely made me aware, like you said, that I need to move out ASAP!

As an aside, I'm realizing that in my urge to vent about my frustrations, I neglected to consider the fact that the situation is very contextual to our complex family dynamics. Obviously it's only possible for others to react based on the limited information I provided, but this was just one example of a chronic issue that extends far beyond the situation I described here. I don't know whether I was successful in conveying the message that I do ultimately accept that my dad has the right to do what he wants in his home. I guess maybe the point I most wanted to make was that by choosing to exert that right in a very careless, messy, and offensive way, I find it very difficult to live with and inconsiderate, despite the fact that as homeowner and father he clearly has the right to behave in ways that just may happen to offend me. However, it's my opinion that just because we have a right to do something doesn't mean we have to or should do it, when in doing so we knowingly upset others that we care about.

Just for clarity, both my mom and I reacted in distress to the situation, but then I left the room. While I was gone, my mom came up with the idea to give the lobster away; she took initiative to contact a soup kitchen and our neighbors, and in the end I went with her when she brought the lobsters over. On my own, I never would have taken and given away food that my dad purchased, or tried to actually stop my dad from making a meal. Would I have still made objections? Honestly yes I would have, because I was very upset! But I would never have tried to impose something so dramatic like that on my dad, just by myself. I guess we did gang up on him in the situation, and in retrospect given the outcome I probably wouldn't support my mom in making that same choice again. But, you live, you learn, and in the moment I was just glad she was on my side. It's really hard not to jump on that bandwagon sometimes!

Lots of food for thought!