[VeggieMath]

Hi guys,

I haven't been vegan a whole year yet and have a question. I know according to PETA the only begal they list as vegan is Thomas begals. There is a NY begal company in town that makes fresh begals daily (very good tasting). I did ask if they put eggs or milk in their begals. They said no only in the egg begal and the one with cheese on it. Is there anything else I need to ask to find out if it's vegan? I was going to post a vegan review on it on the web, but I want to make sure that it's vegan.

 

[Vegan Joe]

From Wikipedia

Bagel types

The two most prominent styles of traditional bagel in North America are the Montreal bagel and the New York-style bagel. The Montreal bagel contains malt and egg but no salt; it is boiled in honey-sweetened water before baking in a wood oven; and it is predominantly either of the black seed (poppy) or white seed (sesame) variety. The New York bagel contains salt and malt and is also boiled prior to baking in a standard oven. The resulting New York bagel is puffy with a noticeable crust, while the Montreal bagel is smaller (though with a larger hole), chewier, and sweeter

 

[ketivnilloc]

PETA just listed well known varieties of bagels that are vegan. Another ingredient to watch for is mono and di-glicerides

 

[misq17]

In my experience, bagels are almost always vegan unless marked as "egg bagels" (the bright yellow kind). In fact, I eat bagels from bakeries without asking ingredients because of the rarity of dairy and eggs in bagels. If you're are buying directly from a bakery (and not prepackaged bagels) they will almost defenitely be vegan.

I've never heard of the Montreal Style bagels that Vegan Joe mentioned, maybe it's because I live near New York. Nothing like a good Brooklyn bagel.

 

[VeggieMath]

The place near me has NY style bagels.

What is in mono and di-glicerides?

 

[Vegan Joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by misq17

Nothing like a good Brooklyn bagel.

I was born and raised on Long Island till I was 18, and I know what you are talking about.

 

[Ravenfire]

I know that mono & di-glicerides is the problem with Panera's bagels. And most of the bagels I see at the grocery store also have them.

 

[Tofu-N-Sprouts]

The store brand bagels at Albertsons and Safeway bakerys are vegan and DEELISH and contain no weird monoglicerides and ickiness...

(And if you arrive at the store at about 5:30 AM, they're fresh out of the oven and to DIE for...).

Also I think Einstein Bagels are OK?

 

[Alli]

I thought Panera's bagels were vegan? Ehh whatever... I love my Thomas New York Style everything bagels! With tofutti better than cream cheese... Mmmmm.

I did see that Thomas's bagels have mono & di glycerides, and it concerned me... But PETA lists it as vegan. Did they find out that they were plant derived for sure?

 

[Tesseract]

I think mono- and d-glycerides is one of the many mystery ingredients that CAN be either plant or animal derived, and there's no way to know except to check with the manufacturer of a given product. And even then, you would probably need to check back every six months or so, because they may change suppliers and the answer may change.

A lot of baked goods also contain L-cysteine as a dough conditioner, which is derived from human hair, if you're concerned about that.

 

[Vegan Joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesseract

A lot of baked goods also contain L-cysteine as a dough conditioner, which is derived from human hair, if you're concerned about that.

I always wondered what my barber did with all that Hair. LOL

I found this at: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/cysteine.html

L-cysteine is essential for T-cell production and immune system activation. L-cysteine is also a component of human hair and is a component of the hormone insulin. L-cysteine can also be converted into glucose (for energy production) when blood glucose levels are low and this conversion may enhance athletic endurance and prevent muscle catabolism.

 

[Tesseract]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegan Joe

L-cysteine is essential for T-cell production and immune system activation. L-cysteine is also a component of human hair and is a component of the hormone insulin. L-cysteine can also be converted into glucose (for energy production) when blood glucose levels are low and this conversion may enhance athletic endurance and prevent muscle catabolism.

I'm having trouble telling from your post how you feel about L-cysteine in your bread. Some people are disturbed by the idea and choose to avoid it, and others don't care because there is no suffering or exploitation involved.

Here are a couple of articles I found about L-cysteine and why some people don't eat it. http://www.albalagh.net/halal/col2.shtml

http://www.kashrut.com/articles/L_cysteine/

The second article also discusses the role of dough conditioners in modern baked goods.

 

[Vegan Joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesseract

Here are a couple of articles I found about L-cysteine and why some people don't eat it. http://www.albalagh.net/halal/col2.shtml

http://www.kashrut.com/articles/L_cysteine/

Thanks Teseract, But I had to stop reading it. I think I feel a hairball coming up.

 

[Ravenfire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alli

I did see that Thomas's bagels have mono & di glycerides, and it concerned me... But PETA lists it as vegan. Did they find out that they were plant derived for sure?

I would check myself to find out. Peta admits that the things on their list are only like 95% vegan since they don't want veganism to seem to hard to people. I stopped using their lists as soon as I found that out.

 

[Quincy]

well, I think there's a level of veganism where it's really up to you what you do.

it's likely impossible to be 100.00000000% vegan, but we can try our best to get as close to 100% as possible.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to get 100%, especially by like giving in on certain food items.

HOWEVER, if something "may contain traces" or has a slight possibility of having one possibly non-vegan ingredient, I'm not sure if I would ALWAYS avoid them.

With that said, if something is obviously not vegan, I will always avoid it...

As for PETA's list, I haven't really used it all that much, to be honest...so maybe I can't totally relate in that aspect either.

 

[Ravenfire]

I don't think that peta lists products with things like whey in them or anything but, according to them, they list items with D3, monoglycerides, stearoyl lactylic acid, and natural flavors, that are derived from animals.

 

[Quincy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

I don't think that peta lists products with things like whey in them or anything but, according to them, they list items with D3, monoglycerides, stearoyl lactylic acid, and natural flavors, that are derived from animals.

yes, but those things are sometimes derived from animals.

still, to be honest, if I knew something I was eating had ANYTHING derived from animals, I wouldn't touch it.

this whole discussion with monoglycerides and other technical ingredients is sort of new to me...not that I didn't do enough vegan research. still, I try to avoid foods/ingredients that I'm not sure about.

like someone else said, Peta is trying to do as much as they can...if their list is 95% vegan, it's doing a LOT to help the world. it's really hard to reach perfection and there are always special cases, exceptions and tiny mistakes that people make. (without knowing)

I can't focus right now so that's it. hope it makes some sense

 

[Alli]

Quote:

yes, but those things are sometimes derived from animals.

still, to be honest, if I knew something I was eating had ANYTHING derived from animals, I wouldn't touch it.

this whole discussion with monoglycerides and other technical ingredients is sort of new to me...not that I didn't do enough vegan research. still, I try to avoid foods/ingredients that I'm not sure about.

Same here... Well, after I finish those bagels, I'm getting my next bag from the HFS, where I KNOW that they are as close to 100% vegan as they can be.

 

[Ravenfire]

I agree that Peta does a lot of good, I just wish I didn't see so many people who just assume that because peta lists it, it has to be vegan. I think they could do more than put a tiny disclaimer on their page. At least make it the same size type as everything else on the page.

 

[Quincy]

this is on there...not sure if it was already mentioned or seen, but...(yes, it is in slightly smaller font):

Quote:

*Items listed may contain trace amounts of animal-derived ingredients. While PETA supports a strict adherence to veganism, we put the task of vigorously reducing animal suffering ahead of personal purity. Boycotting products that are 99.9 percent vegan sends the message to manufacturers that there is no market for this food, which ends up hurting more animals. For a more detailed explanation of PETAs position, please visit http://www.caringconsumer.com/labels.html.