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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From puppy mills? I ask this because even though it's quite obvious that most (all?) of us here would be disgusted by puppy mills, what happens if no one buys all those puppies that are being produced and just left there? Not nice things I imagine...

Anyway if you wanted a specific breed of dog are there many ethical breeders out there and how do you find them? I'm all for animal shelters, but if you want a puppy and a certain breed of dog, that may not be your destination.

I'm not getting a dog anytime soon, my life and plans for the future don't really allow that anyway, but I really want one someday. I never had pets growing up.


I really like the miniature dachshunds. Wiener dogs! So cute


Oh another random question. How do you feel about keeping birds as pets, since you usually have to clip their wings to train them and keep them inside?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DooWahDiddy View Post

what happens if no one buys all those puppies that are being produced and just left there?
This is like the "what if we all quit eating animals today?" question. The question isn't valid since the situation's not going to happen. As for your main question, the act of breeding dogs is in itself unethical, so it is not possible for there to be ethical dog breeders. If you really feel the need for a canine companion, please adopt one from a shelter instead.
 

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If I were looking for a specific breed of dog then I would call around to a number of shelters. Pure bred dogs get dumped too, and if you look in enough places, you may find one in need of a good home. I have never gotten a dog from a pet store and I never will. Puppy mills are terrible, horrible places and they only do what they do for profit. Supporting it only means that future generations of dogs will suffer. I feel very strongly about adopting from rescue organizations and shelters.

As far as birds go, although I had pets birds when I was younger, I feel very differently about buying them now. These animals were never meant to be pets, sitting in cages waiting to be sold. I do not plan to buy a bird from a store again, however there are rescues for birds just like there are for dogs and I would probably be willing to adopt one that way. This decision wouldn't be made lightly, and I would have to do my research to make sure I would be able to give the bird the best life possible under the circumstances.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinkies View Post

This is like the "what if we all quit eating animals today?" question. The question isn't valid since the situation's not going to happen. As for your main question, the act of breeding dogs is in itself unethical, so it is not possible for there to be ethical dog breeders. If you really feel the need for a canine companion, please adopt one from a shelter instead.
Agreed on all counts. The phrase "ethical breeder" is an oxymoron.

--Fromper
 

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With an over population of strays it is unethical to breed more animals and add to the problem. I don't understand why you want a particular breed of dog?
 

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Originally Posted by Jinkies View Post

This is like the "what if we all quit eating animals today?" question. The question isn't valid since the situation's not going to happen.
This.

What we're hoping for is that as more people become aware of the conditions of puppy mills, fewer will want to purchase dogs from pet shops and Internet sites. Fewer puppy mill dogs will be produced to fill demand, and the worst mills will eventually go out of business. And puppy millers' kids will see that going into the family business isn't such a lucrative move.
 

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I got a purebred Pug, with papers, who came from a puppymill, but I adopted him after seeing an ad for him in the pennysaver. His owner couldn't take care of him, didn't want him to go to the pound, and just wanted a good home for him and was interviewing owners, and we were the only ones that knew about pugs to take care of one, and she knew if he was taken to the pound he could also be given to someone who didn't know about pugs or have time to take care of one, so since I didn't support a puppymill by adopting him, I had no issue with it
 

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I don't believe in ethical breeding. I also don't get why anyone wouyld want a pure bred dog. one can find qualities one like in many dogs in the shelter (small, big, cute etc.) And even if one wants a dog of specific breed i would just take my time until one of them ends up in a shelter. never will i pay a breeder

and birds as pets make me pretty sad
 

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It is estimated that 33% of all dogs in shelters and pounds are "purebred". I would guess that over half of my fosters have been purebreds. There are also breed specific rescue groups for nearly every kind of breed. So it's not at all necessary to go to a breeder or to an internet site to get a dog these days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wait, can someone explain to me how breeding dogs is "in itself unethical"

What? Confused.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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Originally Posted by peace View Post

This.*
*
What we're hoping for is that as more people become aware of the conditions of puppy mills, fewer will want to purchase dogs from pet shops and Internet sites. Fewer puppy mill dogs will be produced to fill demand, and the worst mills will eventually go out of business. And puppy millers' kids will see that going into the family business isn't such a lucrative move.
*
Hmm while I understand that, obviously, it still doesn't answer my question. Products are still left over even when a business is on its way of selling out. These puppies are products, they are still produced in mass amounts, and if fewer people want them, in any scenario, the ones leftover will likely be killed. That's my point. If I'm wrong, correct me, but the hope that they will eventually go out of business doesn't make the concern over what happens to the ones leftover, in the event that people actually stopped demanding puppy mill puppies, "not valid." sorry.*
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
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Originally Posted by Bright Bird View Post

If I were looking for a specific breed of dog then I would call around to a number of shelters. Pure bred dogs get dumped too, and if you look in enough places, you may find one in need of a good home. I have never gotten a dog from a pet store and I never will. Puppy mills are terrible, horrible places and they only do what they do for profit. Supporting it only means that future generations of dogs will suffer. I feel very strongly about adopting from rescue organizations and shelters.*

As far as birds go, although I had pets birds when I was younger, I feel very differently about buying them now. These animals were never meant to be pets, sitting in cages waiting to be sold. I do not plan to buy a bird from a store again, however there are rescues for birds just like there are for dogs and I would probably be willing to adopt one that way. This decision wouldn't be made lightly, and I would have to do my research to make sure I would be able to give the bird the best life possible under the circumstances.
*
Yeah, I don't think any animals were "meant to be pets" but aside from that I think it's almost pointless to have a bird as a pet unless you have the money to build some kind of larger habitat for them but even then idk. I don't think it hurts when you clip their wings but still... I was watching that pet care show with mike marone (I have no clue why) and I saw the little bird hopping around trying to fly. And he said when his wings grow back you shouldn't let the bird fly around outside or near windows because he'll fly away.
*

It would be cool to have a pet bird but I don't think I would do it. I haven't researched much about it though.

Another point of interest... How do you all feel about fake habitats for animals like aquariums and zoos. There's one aquarium I worked at in high school and they seemed to really care about the animals. I'm not sure how I feel about it though because at the end of the day, they're still floating around in tanks and hanging out behind glass windows. Reminds me of happy feet.


Although some of the animals in captivity are endangered in nature, so theres that dilemma. What do you guys think?
 

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No, it doesn't hurt birds to clip their wings, as long as it's just the feathers.

On aquariums/zoos, it depends. In general, I'd say no, terrible, etc, but some do make an effort to breed to build wild population and so on, so I can't say they're all evil. But whether the animals are wild-caught or captive-bred, they're being raised in an environment and climate different than the one they belong in, usually with less space than they need
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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Originally Posted by vegansarawr View Post

With an over population of strays it is unethical to breed more animals and add to the problem. I don't understand why you want a particular breed of dog?
Oh that's easy.
1. I think some dogs are way cuter than others

2. Certain breeds of dog are way more difficult to care for, require different living standards and treatment, etc. I believe I said already that I've never had any pets. It would be kind of stupid for me personally to get a certain kind of dog. Not only could some dogs (bigger dogs) do more damage to the smaller living areas that go with broke young people in my city, but I also would probably not be able to care for some kinds of dogs as well as others. Not all dogs are the same. And I'm obsessed with dachshunds.


Then again they are known for being kind of aggressive and hard to train so I probably shouldn't get one. So cute though! Que linda


And I guess I understand the position on breeding. The amount of strays and abandoned dogs out there is kind of crazy. There's a lady I'm friends with on Facebook and everyday she posts what seems to be dozens of pictures of abandoned, abused, etc. Dogs and cats. Always "will be destroyed tomorrow" or something. It's sad
 

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I have very mixed feelings about this question. My beautiful, amazing, wonderful animal companion comes from a breeder. Not a large volume breeder, but from someone who shows her dogs as a hobby and has a litter of puppies every 2 years or so. Her dogs live in the house with her as part of the family and she always has a waiting list for her puppies. I know that I could have rescued a golden retriever from a shelter, and I went back and forth about doing that. Ultimately, I decided to buy a puppy from this breeder.

I knew I wanted a golden retriever because of their gentle friendly temperament, but I was concerned about the reputation they have for hip problems and cancer. I wanted a puppy that I could train early rather than an older dog but most importantly I wanted a breeder who could provide me with health certifications (heart, eyes, hips, and elbows) for the parents.

There are many strong arguments for adopting a dog from a shelter. In my situation, I wanted a golden retriever because I wanted a dog that I could count on as having a friendly, easy temperament. With a mixed breed dog, that's not as predictable. I also felt that by buying a purebred dog and knowing the parentage and medical history of the parents, I had the best chance to have a healthy long-lived dog.

I absolutely understand the arguments against buying from a breeder, I just wanted to share my personal reasons for choosing a breeder over a rescue. It wasn't an easy decision. I spent a lot of time contemplating it. Ultimately, it was the right decision for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenish View Post

I have very mixed feelings about this question. My beautiful, amazing, wonderful animal companion comes from a breeder. Not a large volume breeder, but from someone who shows her dogs as a hobby and has a litter of puppies every 2 years or so. Her dogs live in the house with her as part of the family and she always has a waiting list for her puppies. I know that I could have rescued a golden retriever from a shelter, and I went back and forth about doing that. Ultimately, I decided to buy a puppy from this breeder.*

I knew I wanted a golden retriever because of their gentle friendly temperament, but I was concerned about the reputation they have for hip problems and cancer. I wanted a puppy that I could train early rather than an older dog but most importantly I wanted a breeder who could provide me with health certifications (heart, eyes, hips, and elbows) for the parents.

There are many strong arguments for adopting a dog from a shelter. In my situation, I wanted a golden retriever because I wanted a dog that I could count on as having a friendly, easy temperament. With a mixed breed dog, that's not as predictable. I also felt that by buying a purebred dog and knowing the parentage and medical history of the parents, I had the best chance to have a healthy long-lived dog.

I absolutely understand the arguments against buying from a breeder, I just wanted to share my personal reasons for choosing a breeder over a rescue. It wasn't an easy decision. I spent a lot of time contemplating it. Ultimately, it was the right decision for me.
*
You raise some interesting points here. Thanks for sharing your experience! (that goes for anyone talking about their experience with this topic actually)

This brings another issue up (so many topics, sorry lol) : the dogs that are raised to help the blind or disabled. How do you guys feel about that? I dunno how I feel about it to be honest but I also havent thoroughly researched it, and I have the luxury of not having one of these conditions.*
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DooWahDiddy View Post

what happens if no one buys all those puppies that are being produced and just left there? Not nice things I imagine...
Dog auctions, Class-B dealers, and "culling."

Quote:
Anyway if you wanted a specific breed of dog are there many ethical breeders out there and how do you find them? I'm all for animal shelters, but if you want a puppy and a certain breed of dog, that may not be your destination.
Breed-specific rescues. They're the clean-up crew for "ethical breeders."

Quote:
Oh another random question. How do you feel about keeping birds as pets, since you usually have to clip their wings to train them and keep them inside?
I clip rescued cats' nails and keep them inside. Same difference.
 

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I have pet rats and the question of breeders comes up all the time and I am always against getting any animal from a breeder. The standpoint that if you don't save it it won't go to a good home bothers me so much because for every one animal you "save" you are condemning many more by providing the breeders money to continue making more.

Why pay a breeder to keep breading and adding to the over population when you can actually save a life by adopting?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DooWahDiddy View Post

Wait, can someone explain to me how breeding dogs is "in itself unethical"

What? Confused.
Every year, millions of dogs are put to death in shelters because there aren't enough available homes to adopt them all. Breeders intentionally go out of their way to create additional dogs to compete for the homes that are available. Thus, every dog that's intentionally bred will take a home away from one that's in a shelter, often resulting in the death of the shelter dog. Breeding any type of animal that's already overpopulated is never "ethical".

--Fromper
 

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I see what you are saying, but are they always competing for homes? I know people with purebreds who would only have bought that kind of dog. They never would have considered a shelter dog. So, if they didn't buy the purebred, they wouldn't have gotten anything. It's sad, but true. Not everyone willing to get a purebred is open to a shelter dog. Purebreds don't necessarily take away homes from shelter dogs.
 
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