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Originally Posted by River View Post

So, even things made of animal cells can be considered vegetarian then?

I guess I just for some reason, began questioning how things made strictly of animal cells/proteins, has a vegetarian label.

So 'Vegetarian' comes down to "No Animal muscle tissue".
Yeah, that's the broadest definition I can come up with anyway.

People become veg*n for literally dozens of reasons and in dozens of ways, no animal muscle tissue seems to be the only thing that connects us all under one label at any rate. So I'd technically consider someone who wears leather and eats eggs and gelatin a vegetarian, but not someone who eats fish.
 

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River, I'm just trying to sort out what the logic is behind whether or not eggs are, not necessarily saying animal cells are okay or not. Although to some vegetarians they are, and that's fine by me.
Werewolf Girl's right though, it's the broadest definition that most couldn't find flaw in- it starts there and broadens or not

As I said, I do no pieces of dead animals, and an egg isn't an animal, but this isn't the place to defend my ethics.

Also, directed to Ira and not this thread in general, I asked my boy if it was, in his opinion (not to be discussed here) ethical to use a blood egg in baking. His response was much like yours.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by affidavit View Post

River, I'm just trying to sort out what the logic is behind whether or not eggs are, not necessarily saying animal cells are okay or not. Although to some vegetarians they are, and that's fine by me.
As I said, I do no pieces of dead animals, and an egg isn't an animal, but this isn't the place to defend my ethics.

Also, directed to Ira and not this thread in general, I asked my boy if it was, in his opinion (not to be discussed here) ethical to use a blood egg in baking. His response was much like yours.
That's interesting, I hadn't thought about Blood in Eggs. I know that if you're cooking Extreme Kosher, you make sure you're not getting/eating an egg with blood in it, I just find it really interesting how we define vegetarianism.

The muscle tissue its self is not vegetarian, however the 100% animal proteins and really, by all means tissue in eggs are, and as you pointed out occasionally blood. It seems.... like a major classification issue. And I hope this doesn't come across as picking at ovo eaters, as I mentioned I occasionally use eggs in cooking, I just question what makes them vegetarian.
 

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Since, as I mentioned earlier, I raise my own chickens, blood eggs happen for different reasons and fairly often- a fertile egg that a hen sat on for a day or two, then abandoned before I realized she'd been broody, a pinched blood vesel in the chicken, etc. Store bought eggs, whether or not from battery farms, generally are candled, so if you don't raise your own chickens or buy from someone with a small farm, you don't really think about it.

Don't know how more or less it applies ethically or logically, but still

ETA, it would be wasteful not to use these eggs, by the way, so I do- in baking though, the taste's usually off and the yolks go weird, so you don't want to cook them alone. My dad taught me that they're traditionally baked instead of tossed, actually. In case the moral dilemna does come up, these aren't eggs I 'steal' from a hen trying to hatch them- I mark those and let her keep them. These are either pinched blood vessel or sat on a day and abandoned, as I said
 

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Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Yeah I think free range is bull****. If I say "can be obtained without killing", it's referring just to e.g. when some AR advocates have a couple of rescued hens or something.
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Originally Posted by disney.jessica View Post

Wow I'm ashamed to say I never really thought about what happens to male chicks. I guess I've never really done any logical thinking about what happens to animals used for animal products or byproducts until doing some research to become vegan. I just become vegan because I thought it was wrong that the chickens lived short lives and are piled onto each other in small cages, and by then I also thought it was wrong that chickens are used anyway for eggs and everything, but knowing what happens to the males is even more of a reason to not eat eggs for me
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Originally Posted by Werewolf Girl View Post

Yeah, that's the broadest definition I can come up with anyway.

People become veg*n for literally dozens of reasons and in dozens of ways, no animal muscle tissue seems to be the only thing that connects us all under one label at any rate. So I'd technically consider someone who wears leather and eats eggs and gelatin a vegetarian, but not someone who eats fish.
I think what does unite all of us is that we abstain from products where it is common knowledge that we have to kill the animal to get the product, i.e. any kind of meat. Although I've found out recently that it is almost impossible to get animal products without killing, as with dairy male calves become veal, so now that I know it's easier and I feel much less guilty if I simply abstain from animal products all together. Although that said, if I was a guest at someone's house and they did have rescued hens who laid eggs, then I wouldn't refuse them if they were offered to me, but then again eggs were never one of my favorite foods anyway.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post

That's interesting, I hadn't thought about Blood in Eggs. I know that if you're cooking Extreme Kosher, you make sure you're not getting/eating an egg with blood in it, I just find it really interesting how we define vegetarianism.

The muscle tissue its self is not vegetarian, however the 100% animal proteins and really, by all means tissue in eggs are, and as you pointed out occasionally blood. It seems.... like a major classification issue. And I hope this doesn't come across as picking at ovo eaters, as I mentioned I occasionally use eggs in cooking, I just question what makes them vegetarian.
Eggs are vegetarian because they can be obtained without killing the hens; just as milk can be obtained without killing the cow. That's what makes them vegetarian. Although there are issues with how they are treated in commercial operations, that is another subject. I'm merely answering the question as to why eggs are considered vegetarian.
 

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since going vegetarian I struggle to eat eggs - always struggled with the yolk not is it high in cholestrol the thought of eating it just made me feel funny.

i do however eat egg whites omelettes to get in my protein as I dont feel like soya protein powder shakes everyday. Its also winter now and too cold for shakes.

Unfortunately I start feeling weak if I dont get enough protein in and struggle with that ... I eat enough of all the other food groups.

LOL guess I have always been a bit weird when it comes to food some textures and things just freak me out.
 

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Originally Posted by kasandra View Post

i do however eat egg whites omelettes to get in my protein as I dont feel like soya protein powder shakes everyday. Its also winter now and too cold for shakes.
Where do you live that it's winter right now? I'll hold my tongue on the rest of this and the subject in general.
 

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Originally Posted by Jemdude View Post

Eggs are vegetarian because they can be obtained without killing the hens; just as milk can be obtained without killing the cow. That's what makes them vegetarian. Although there are issues with how they are treated in commercial operations, that is another subject. I'm merely answering the question as to why eggs are considered vegetarian.
Once again: meat can be obtained without killing animals, if you wait for animals to die of old age or scavenge carcasses from nature. That doesn't make meat vegetarian. Your explanation for vegetarianism is bull****.
 

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In some languages, vegetarian includes fish. In others, it doesn't include any animal products. In English, it typically includes dairy and eggs. If most people understand vegetarian as including eggs then, yes, eggs are included. That's how language works. So from a linguistic perspective, the question is easy. A word means what most people understand it to mean. The word aweful, for example, historically meant full of awe (a positive thing) and over time the meaning changed because young children who hated going into the Roman cathedrals that were often described as aweful began sarcastically using the word with a more negative meaning, and the dictionary definition changed to remain in line with society's use of the word.

Language adapts over time and I will continue eating eggs regardless of what the word vegetarian changes to mean, so long as the eggs meet my standards. We all draw our line at a different point. It is our ethics that determine exactly where that line is. The word itself is based on nothing more than an arbitrary interpretation assigned by the majority. Do what you feel is right regardless, and then find the word that best describes it for when you feel the need to communicate whatever it is that you do.
 

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When I was an egg eating milk drinking kid calling myself a vegetarian, I was very sternly corrected by an adult who told me I needed to call myself a lacto ovo vegetarian, since real vegetarians didn't eat these things. Throughout most of the history of the idea of vegetarianism, eggs were not considered a vegetarian food.

I can't think of any other word whose meaning so many masses of people have wanted to change to suit themselves, in such a short time. Except maybe for the word vegan. That's not even 100 years old, and people have already altered it to suit themselves, instead of respecting the intent of the people who actually created it to represent an idea that they thought needed representing.
 

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It just occurred to me that "I don't eat meat" has less syllables than "I'm a vegetarian." So if I were to look at it from the viewpoint of an economist, perhaps it would be more time efficient to simply abandon the world vegetarian altogether
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenseas View Post

Once again: meat can be obtained without killing animals, if you wait for animals to die of old age or scavenge carcasses from nature. That doesn't make meat vegetarian. Your explanation for vegetarianism is bull****.
Calm down dude.....

The only problem I have with eggs... are they are commercially farmed, for every female chicken, one rooster is ground up and eventually the hen is killed when she cant lay anymore.

But besides that.
My idea of vegetarianism... Is something doesn't have to die or be missing a limb for me to eat it. I am trying to understand how are they not vegetarian in the simplest sense? The animal that gave you egg didn't die to give you the egg.... especially if you raised it yourself and plan to take care of it till it dies of old age.

When you eat an egg your eating the period of the chicken.... It hasn't been fertilized then it doesn't chicken inside of it, its a natural process for the chicken, its not like a human is reaching up inside of the chicken and snatching out one of it kidneys to eat. If I didn't eat my chickens eggs they would just rot in their pens..... no chicks would hatch out of them, there is no life or even the potential for life once the hen has laid the egg, Again how is that not vegetarian?

This is coming from a person who hasn't eaten whole cooked eggs in close to 20 years.... ( Yes I am a hypocrite, I still eat them in breads and such but I am working on phasing out all production based eggs out of my diet)

This thread really just seems like a thread were Vegans and lacto vegetarians pushing off their ideas under the message they are just want to discuss how eggs are vegetarian.
 

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Originally Posted by Cadrian View Post

If I didn't eat my chickens eggs they would just rot in their pens.....
This is a bit of misinformation. Unfertilized eggs are often times eaten by the chickens, shell and all, to reabsorb the nutrients. Some people with pet chickens even boil them first or crack 'em open for their chickens to eat. It is nice to see when people rescue chickens and take good care of them though.

While personal views may be slipping into this discussion, the OP's question is very interesting.
 

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I was thinking about this question, "are eggs really vegetarian?" when I was still a lacto-ovo vegetarian myself. It clicked in my head, that eggs aren't plant based, still came from an animal, and torture and death still surrounds the egg industry, as much as the meat industry does. I realized that a complete plant-based diet was the only logical choice for me.

In my mind, eggs aren't vegetarian, just because it was created by an animal's body. Same goes for diary.
 

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Originally Posted by Cadrian View Post

When you eat an egg your eating the period of the chicken.... It hasn't been fertilized then it doesn't chicken inside of it, its a natural process for the chicken...
No. Wild birds do not have periods like human women do. They lay anywhere from one to a dozen fertilized eggs a year with the intention of raising a new generation. Chickens who have been domesticated by humans to become egg factories are not the slightest bit natural. They have been altered from their wild state to lay way more eggs each year than their bodies are capable of. This is a completely artificial human engineered situation that in no way resembles human menses.
 

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A vegetarian is someone who lives on a diet of grains, pulses, nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruits with, or without, the use of dairy products and eggs.(The Vegetarian Society definition).
 

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Leaving ethics aside, as has been requested, I do consider eggs vegetarian. I think the term "vegetarian," with no further explanation or qualifications, would include milk and eggs for most ordinary people.

That definition may or may not make sense, but I do think it's the commonly accepted one, and we have to communicate somehow. Agreeing on terms for things is part of how we do it.
 

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Originally Posted by *AHIMSA* View Post

According to Sikhs, Hindus and others, no.
I would love to hear from Hindus on Veggieboards as to how their religious guidelines transfer into daily practice. More than a dozen of the people I work with are Hindu. They have all lived in the US long enough to assimilate in some ways and keep to their native culture in other ways. We eat out together frequently, and we share food at potlucks. We label all our potluck dishes as to whether or not they contain meat, but we have not been asked to go into more detail than that. The Hindus' preferences in this group range from omnivore (mostly plant-based with occasional meat), to avoiding all meat and visible egg. Not one among them avoids egg as a secondary or trace ingredient in baked goods and ice cream, and most (all but the ones who sometimes eat meat) of them consider themselves diligent and faithful vegetarians. From India, which is maybe the most highly vegetarian country on the planet. I'm thinking the world at large has one definition of vegetarian, and vegans have another.
 
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