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Herbivorous Urchin
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Before this gets angry, I eat eggs myself. I was just thinking about it, and they're not exactly vegetarian though, if you think about it.<br><br>
An egg is really just the place for an animal to grow in, consisting of things for the fetus to come to term,<br><br>
and if you look at animals other than us that eat them, they are hardly vegetarian animals.<br><br><br>
What are the arguments that say an egg is vegetarian, aside from the "It's not literal tissue from an animal" But even then, it kind of is.<br><br>
I'm not talking about the ethical dilemma, or anything like that, just how we classify eggs as vegetarian.
 

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According to Sikhs, Hindus and others, no.
 

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In the western world, eggs are considered vegetarian because they do not involve the destruction of life. The eggs in the stores are not fertilized.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jemdude</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892348"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
In the western world, eggs are considered vegetarian because they do not involve the destruction of life. The eggs in the stores are not fertilized.</div>
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As a matter of facts, egg production involves the destruction of life and meat production involves the destruction of life. Eggs can be obtained without killing animals, but so can meat, like if you scavenge for carcasses from nature. So "does not <i>inherently</i> involve destruction of life" would be a poor standard to define 'vegetarian' by...
 

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I try to refrain from eating eggs as much as I can.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892376"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
As a matter of facts, egg production involves the destruction of life and meat production involves the destruction of life. Eggs can be obtained without killing animals, but so can meat, like if you scavenge for carcasses from nature. So "does not <i>inherently</i> involve destruction of life" would be a poor standard to define 'vegetarian' by...</div>
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Exactly. What line/point did Eggs become a vegetarian item, and do we classify them as such?
 

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Well despite what I said about killing, I still believe eggs are vegetarian, because to me, 'vegetarian' is a merely technical term meaning '<i>no meat (and preferably no meat byproducts)</i>'. It is an arbitrary definition, and maybe a confusing one since eggs and dairy and other animal products are not vegetables, but such is life. I don't know when and why the definition has changed, if it has. But I don't think the term 'vegetarian' as such connotes any beliefs or values, just a dietary practice.
 

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It depends on how you define vegetarian. I'm glad we're not getting into the moral argument, because it's annoying for both sides and those in the grey area.<br><br>
My rule is nothing from dead animals. That doesn't count if one of my hens gets eaten by an owl or something the day after she lays though.<br>
... okay, nothing made from pieces of dead animals. And, not to do with the vegetarian-or-not thing, nothing from tortured animals, such as battery farms- but that's not the point.<br><br>
I think the arguments are that it's not animal flesh, as you said, and, as Sevenseas and I both said, they're not dead animals or derived therefrom.<br><br>
But there are a ton of different types of vegetarian, it's not so definitive as vegan. It can or can't be a lifestyle along with the diet, some people only say meat and not gelatin or broth etc etc. So you'll get a different argument from lots of people. Lots will say 'eggs aren't animals' and not think into it further.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892376"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
As a matter of facts, egg production involves the destruction of life and meat production involves the destruction of life. Eggs can be obtained without killing animals, but so can meat, like if you scavenge for carcasses from nature. So "does not <i>inherently</i> involve destruction of life" would be a poor standard to define 'vegetarian' by...</div>
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I'm aware that commercial egg production is an issue, so free-ranged eggs are okay. The point I was trying to make is that eggs are considered vegetarian.<br><br>
Lacto-ovo vegetarianism is the most common type.<br><br><a href="http://www.vegsoc.org/page.aspx?pid=698" target="_blank">http://www.vegsoc.org/page.aspx?pid=698</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892376"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
As a matter of facts, egg production involves the destruction of life and meat production involves the destruction of life. Eggs can be obtained without killing animals, but so can meat, like if you scavenge for carcasses from nature. So "does not <i>inherently</i> involve destruction of life" would be a poor standard to define 'vegetarian' by...</div>
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Unfortunately, even with free range, male baby chicks are usually killed when they are a day old, as they're considered useless and too expensive. You can Google more details easily if you want to, however finding this out was the final straw that pushed me towards veganism.
 

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Yeah I think free range is bull****. If I say "can be obtained without killing", it's referring just to e.g. when some AR advocates have a couple of rescued hens or something.
 

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I raise free range chickens, and I don't cull my roos. If I foresee a problem, I sell them or give them away (older, as vent sexing as is done in commercial farms is unsafe to someone who hasn't properly been taught, and there's no other definitive way to sex chickens) to others who need one alternated in because their roo died, is sterile, whatever- and trust me, no one pays for a rooster if it's not for breeding/ornament, you can get all the ugly roosters you want free on craigslist.<br><br>
They roam my five acres, which they could leave but thankfully don't (seeing as there are roads on two sides and dogs on two sides), and have a secure coop that they return to at night.<br><br>
However, store bought free range/run eggs are a lie and always involve culling of roosters. Your best bet for eggs is to go locally/to the closest rural area, where every other door has a 'farm fresh eggs!' sign, and ask them about it yourself- many raise them like me, and most of the ones I know who don't raise the roosters for the auction and lose track of them there.<br><br>
ETA- I might fall under AR advocate with hens, except that I raise my chickens myself (although I have taken rescues/foundlings), which I know is abhorrent still to some vegans, but still
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Again - THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ETHICAL DILEMMA.<br><br>
My point is that eggs, and their molecular composition do not seem to have any vegetarian properties, or anything that would otherwise make them Vegetarian, so why do we consider them vegetarian?
 

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Refer to my first post, before I was offended <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
Abut I don't think there's much else to say, other thn that maybe because an egg is an animal cell, but not yet an animal, and perhaps that means something<br><br><br>
And again, vegetarian can be a very flexible definition. Lots of people think I shouldn't mind leather, not being vegan, but I won't buy any anymore, and likewise, others have no problem with chicken stock and so forth
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892570"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Again - THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ETHICAL DILEMMA.<br><br>
My point is that eggs, and their molecular composition do not seem to have any vegetarian properties, or anything that would otherwise make them Vegetarian, so why do we consider them vegetarian?</div>
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There are so many differences between vegetarians, the only thing that connects us all is we don't eat meat. When I think meat I think muscle tissue that was actually cut off an animal, that's the distinction for me. Eggs aren't technically flesh or muscle or whatever you want to call it yet, and if they are unfertilized they never will be. Gross and unethical for sure but not muscle.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Werewolf Girl</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892594"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Gross and unethical for sure but not muscle.</div>
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I know I diverged too, but we were trying to avoid ethics, and in the vegetarian support forum, this is somewhat offensive to all of us<br>
...although eggs can be gross, I'm not thinking for ethical reasons, or for the fact that they are. I mean in bad food prep or 'oh my god that was spoiled I'm dying sulfur'<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Werewolf Girl</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892594"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
There are so many differences between vegetarians, the only thing that connects us all is we don't eat meat.</div>
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Yes, this.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Mia82</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892510"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Unfortunately, even with free range, male baby chicks are usually killed when they are a day old, as they're considered useless and too expensive. You can Google more details easily if you want to, however finding this out was the final straw that pushed me towards veganism.</div>
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Wow I'm ashamed to say I never really thought about what happens to male chicks. I guess I've never really done any logical thinking about what happens to animals used for animal products or byproducts until doing some research to become vegan. I just become vegan because I thought it was wrong that the chickens lived short lives and are piled onto each other in small cages, and by then I also thought it was wrong that chickens are used anyway for eggs and everything, but knowing what happens to the males is even more of a reason to not eat eggs for me
 

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When I was younger I thought the definitions used today as Vegan was what a vegetarian was supposed to be. It really confused me when i heared about ovo-lacto vegetarians and stuff. I always add ovo-lacto when i ever i say vegetarian cause in mind mind just a vegetarian is another way of saying vegan. Dunno words are funny creatures.
 

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in this case to me it is similar to pro choice/life thing. i am against killing people/animals, i don't give a rats ass about fetuses or eggs. it is all about how a living thing can already understand his life, have a developed nervous system etc. The fact that an animal can grow from it sounds more vegan than vegetarian concern to me
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Werewolf Girl</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2892594"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
There are so many differences between vegetarians, the only thing that connects us all is we don't eat meat. When I think meat I think muscle tissue that was actually cut off an animal, that's the distinction for me. Eggs aren't technically flesh or muscle or whatever you want to call it yet, and if they are unfertilized they never will be. Gross and unethical for sure but not muscle.</div>
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So, even things made of animal cells can be considered vegetarian then?<br><br>
I guess I just for some reason, began questioning how things made strictly of animal cells/proteins, has a vegetarian label.<br><br>
So 'Vegetarian' comes down to "No Animal muscle tissue".
 
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