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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
papayamon's thread in the food forum a while back got me interested in researching the no oils diet for better health, which of course goes against every grain in American cooking! Anyway, I"m convinced, besides, now I"m not using any sugars either.

Just wondering who else lives a very low fat existance, what difficulties have you had if any? I can imagine eating out could be problematic.

I want to read the other's books too, plus his son's Engine2 diet book, and then pass it on to my future SIL.
 

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Personally, I don't think a low fat diet offers any more benefits than a regular diet that includes healthy oils. Many oils have health benefits int terms of lowering cholesterol, raising HDL, cardivocascular health...etc. If the goal of the low fat diet is to lose weight then that can be done just by cutting down on calories.

Although The Happy Herbivore Cookbook that you made that thread on is amazing and is all low fat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't think there is any disputing his 12 yr study and how many people have reversed their heart disease, esp with PET scan pictures to prove the improvement of perfusion in the vessels. I just commented on what he has to say about mono fats in your other thread about coconut oil!

I don't have an immediate need to be fat free, but we certainly have heart disease in the family, and I"m the healthiest of all my siblings, for sure....and that's having a veg diet vs their SAD. He says you can get all the fats you need, but I'd like to question him on Omega 3s specifically. If you dont' currently have heart disease, you can have walnuts, so I guess that's the answer.
 

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I'm not saying it doesn't work I'm just saying you can reverse heart disease even if you eat added oils because some oils are good for the heart (olive, coconut...etc).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
He would dispute that to the hills with you. He extensively rips apart olive and canola oils....again, it goes against everything we believe and have been taught through the generations......What if he is right? What if these oils really are bad for you and we've been brainwashed into believing we need them because the vegetable oil industry tells us we do? If you follow the mainstream, of course they tell us we need xyz....same as non-veg people believing everything they read about foods.

Then we are no better than the general public believing that we need milk for strong bones or beef for iron....we've been duped!

We can and his patients do just fine on the 9-12% fat intake in natural foods ( Standard American Diet is about 33-35% fat!) , without having to eat foods that are cooked in oil or have oils added to them.

Reading this book was like reading the China Study- sort of an ephiphany, which he says should be mandatory reading for everyone! We already know this ourselves, but Dr Esselstyne says even the govt is recommending too high of a dietary fat content- and it isn't healthy for anyone. the recommeneded amt should be much lower than it is.

You should just give this book a read, and then see what you think!
 

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He could be right, he could be wrong. Who knows for 100%. Anyways, some vitamins are fat soluble and are more easily absorbed with some fat so like if you're making a salad you probably should use even just a little oil, or at least put something like avocado on the salad.
 

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^^^ I'm in the pro-fat crowd myself. I've no doubt that based on the scientific evidence your diet can reverse heart diease... however I doubt that good natural fats were the cause of that heart disease to begin with.
 

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I'm also in the pro-good-fat crowd. Reducing your overall caloric intake can be a good thing, if you're hoping to lose weight or make changes in your health, and excessive fat consumption can certainly contribute to excess calories, but I'm not convinced that fat=evil.

Sugar and other refined carbs, on the other hand, absolutely equal evil in my book.
 

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I just finished reading Dr. Dean Ornish's book Spectrum. He talks about the ratio of fatty acids in oils; like choosing canola oil over olive oil because of the omega-3 fatty acids to omega-6 fatty acids ratio is more even. He talks about how many oils have a higher lvls of omega 6, which can cause inflamation in the body if they arent equal or less than your intake of omega 3s. Palm oils and coconut oils are high in saturated fat which raise LDL and lower HDL. I he also mentions that when all liquid vegetable oils are heated in the presence of hydrogen, partially hydrogenated fats and trans fats are produced. He covers quite a bit about it. Considering his studies have proven the reversal of heart desease and other diseases by following his diet on the heathiest side of his spectrum, which doesnt include oils, my guess that elimating most if not all oils would be heathier imo.

For a while now, i've been substituting oil with water when sauteing, using parchment paper or flour on pans for baking and in most sweet baked recipes, a bit of applesauce replaces oil well. The only time I use oil anymore is in certain bread doughs, like pizza. I do include nuts, avocados, olives and flaxseed oil in my diet. Cutting out oil isnt really as difficult as many might think.
 

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I don't heat any oil except coconut oil and more often than not I don't heat that either. I get fats from whole foods as much as possible.

I've met all these doctors and have heard them speak. I've read all but their latest books (which I plan to read ASAP).

I believe a whole foods, plant based diet is the best choice and that relying on greens and beans/legumes and eating a high raw diet is the best choice for the majority of people.
 

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Dr. Esselynstins diet HAS prevented and reversed heart disease!
I have learned to avoid heated oils, and instead will lightly drizzle seseme, or olive on some foods after cooking.

Question: Why has olive OIL become so popular, and not olives themselves?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silva View Post

Question: Why has olive OIL become so popular, and not olives themselves?
Probably has to do with taste and people tend to either love or hate olives themselves. The whole mediterranean hype going around seems to made people crazed about the oil.
 

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Dietary fat doesn't cause heart disease... saturated fat doesn't cause heart disease... high cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease...
 

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I love olives. They're an amazing food.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
It absolutely does Digger! Where is there documentation about any of that? Where do you think plaque build ups come from? Most heart attacks are caused by the rupture of a plaque build up, causing a clot formation, and then eventual clotting of the vessel. If people don't consume excess fats, then the body doesn't produce excess cholesterol in response to those fats eaten. "studies have consistantly shown that that a diet high in fat and cholesterol causes coronary artery disease in animals and humans"

Dr Esselstyne says that he and Dr Ornish were running their studies at the same time in the mid 80s, and that he was the only one that was as similar to his own study, but using oils was basically the only difference.

Another stat from the Mediterranean Diet Study.....after the 4 yr study was completed, one in four either had died or had a new cardiovascular event. Dr Campbell agrees that the reason so many inland Chinese in his study didn't have heart disease was because the didn't consume oils.

Non animal based study on the mono unsat fats in people......"Dr Blankenhorn of the U. of Southern Calif. school of Med. compared basline angiograms with one yr follow up angios, and he found that the disease had progressed just as much in those consuming monounsaturated fats as it had in those eating sat fats." and he cites the source in the book.

Believe me, this is still hard for me to get ahold of too....I, up till about 3 days ago, when I started reading this book, was all for the nuts, seeds, and avocados......this is just really making me think about the amt of oils in foods we do eat- even crackers and cereals, and breads. I've switched to simmering onions in water now too, instead of oil. And I think back to Omni days of baking, adding a cup of oil to a zucchini cake or zucc bread recipe....ugh!

Shamandura, I've found those recipes too on McDougall's site....just haven't spent much time on it....and The Happy Herbivore cookbook does fit his criteria for most recipes, although the tofutti cream cheese probably wouldn't!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
let's take the Wiki article first.....makes sense that subbing poly's for sat is going to lead in a reduction of CHD. 2nd THE NATIONAL DAIRY COUNCIL found no statistically significant relationship between cardiovascular disease and dietary saturated fat (wonder who paid for that study). In a bunch of the additional studies, they are comparing oil to oil, and which one has the least effect...none are comparing removing oils all together in the diet, and then reviewing the outcomes.

"25%-35% total fat but less than 7% saturated fat and trans fat lowers the risk of coronary heart disease" of course it will, the SAD is 33-35% fat.
"A 1999 review found that substitution of the fat from one ounce of nuts for equivalent energy from saturated fat was associated with a 45% reduction in risk of coronary heart disease." At least is encouraging from a plant based perspective.

This falls mostly in line with what he says " In 2003 a World Health Organization (WHO) and Food and Agricultural Organization (FAO) expert consultation report concluded that "intake of saturated fatty acids is directly related to cardiovascular risk. The traditional target is to restrict the intake of saturated fatty acids to less than 10%, of daily energy intake and less than 7% for high-risk groups. If populations are consuming less than 10%, they should not increase that level of intake. Within these limits, intake of foods rich in myristic and palmitic acids should be replaced by fats with a lower content of these particular fatty acids. In developing countries, however, where energy intake for some population groups may be inadequate, energy expenditure is high and body fat stores are low (BMI <18.5 kg/m2). The amount and quality of fat supply has to be considered keeping in mind the need to meet energy requirements. Specific sources of saturated fat, such as coconut and palm oil, provide low-cost energy and may be an important source of energy for the poor"

DING, DING, DING "The Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2010 produced by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services says the human body makes more than enough saturated fats to meet its needs and does not require more from dietary sources. It says higher levels of saturated fats are associated with higher levels of total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein "bad" cholesterol and recommends reduced saturated fat intake.[33] The guidelines are based on the recommendations of the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee (DGAC) report that incorporated the results of the review of 12 studies from 2004 to 2009 conducted by the Nutrition Evidence Library

That wasn't a good link to support your view on unfortunately.....A lot of what they posted were Position statements from many different sources, many which contradict each other. ANyone could find what they want to hear and link a section, including me.

Dr Weil isn't even vegetarian, and is a strong supporter of dairy in that article....I would have to agree, that if a person were to choose between margarine and butter, they would be better off with the real stuff. There are way too many artificial ingredients in the low fat/low calorie foods manufactured.
 

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Yeah the wikipedia article was kind of dumb but I posted it showing how people disagree whether they are good or bad.

The Dr. Weil article I posted because it's a good one. I think dairy is horrible for you but not because of the saturated fats. And he isn't a vegetarian that's besides the point. I don't think meat inherently is bad for you or added oils. And I don't base the information I get from a health professional on whether they're vegetarian or not. The article stated that he reviewed a bunch of studies and found no significant link between heart disease and saturated fats.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...against-cardio
" In 2008 Stampfer co-authored a study in the New England Journal of Medicine that followed 322 moderately obese individuals for two years as they adopted one of three diets: a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet based on American Heart Association guidelines; a Mediterranean, restricted-calorie diet rich in vegetables and low in red meat; and a low-carbohydrate, nonrestricted-calorie diet. Although the subjects on the low-carb diet ate the most saturated fat, they ended up with the healthiest ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol and lost twice as much weight as their low-fat-eating counterparts."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...61341020100204
 
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