[vegan_slut]

I searched and searched but haven't found anything on this, but if this is a repetitive thread, I apologize.<br><br><br><br>
My cousin is trying to convince my that in the process of harvesting crops and plants and fruits, many rodents, rabbits, boll weevils, etc. are killed by machines that pick the crops from the fields. Has anyone heard anything about this?! I think he got his sources from a pretty ridiculous website (ever heard of maddox.xmission.com?). I told him to come talk to me when he had more credible sources and he hasn't yet, I don't think he really cares I think he's just trying to give me a hard time.<br><br><br><br>
What would you all say to this argument?

 

[*AHIMSA*]

Of course animals are injured in modern farming. Big machines running through cornfields don't check to see if mice are living in the plants before harvesting the corn. Yet another reason to find a small local farm and buy from them <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"><br><br><br><br>
The point of veganism is to do the least amount of harm. Since omni's/lacto-ovo's and people with every other kind of diet eat many of the same foods vegans do, in addition to animal products and animals themselves, it stands to reason that a conscious vegan diet will do less harm.<br><br><br><br>
I hope you are able to get help from others who have the time or information to link for you <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="">

 

[Sevenseas]

I would admit the truth of the harms of veg*n food and then say that our society also relies on a lot of human exploitation. Then I would ask him whether the fact that people cause some harm justifies them causing more harm, and if he answers 'yes', I would say "thanks for letting me know" and kick him in the groins.

 

[ambiguous smile]

Like others have said, of course some animals are harmed with the big machinery they use. Go for organic farm products, at the one I work on, we harvest our crops by hand.

 

[Michael]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vegan_slut</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
My cousin is trying to convince my that in the process of harvesting crops and plants and fruits, many rodents, rabbits, boll weevils, etc. are killed by machines that pick the crops from the fields.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Cows eat far more grain than humans do. Therefore more animals are still killed for a meat-based diet.

 

[Fyvel]

Unfortunately it does happen. But harvesting is also required for the food that is used for animal feed, and many pounds of animal feed must be fed to an animal to produce one pound of flesh. So while a veg*n diet still causes harm, it causes significantly less harm that an omnivorous diet.

 

[Vegmedic]

On the one hand you could say that as a vegan you eat grains. The farming and transportation process of growing, processing and transporting those grains to you has caused the death of many small animals.<br><br><br><br>
On the other hand you could say that a omni eats meat. A cow eats several pounds of grain for each pound of beef "produced" (which of course the growing, processing and transporting of said grain caused the death of many small animals).<br><br><br><br>
Any way you look at it an veg*n diet has caused less animal death and suffering.

 

[cillianmurphy00]

yeah obiously animals get hurt during that.

 

[cillianmurphy00]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Vegmedic</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
On the one hand you could say that as a vegan you eat grains. The farming and transportation process of growing, processing and transporting those grains to you has caused the death of many small animals.<br><br><br><br>
On the other hand you could say that a omni eats meat. A cow eats several pounds of grain for each pound of beef "produced" (which of course the growing, processing and transporting of said grain caused the death of many small animals).<br><br><br><br>
Any way you look at it an veg*n diet has caused less animal death and suffering.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Yeah

 

[cillianmurphy00]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Vegmedic</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
On the one hand you could say that as a vegan you eat grains. The farming and transportation process of growing, processing and transporting those grains to you has caused the death of many small animals.<br><br><br><br>
On the other hand you could say that a omni eats meat. A cow eats several pounds of grain for each pound of beef "produced" (which of course the growing, processing and transporting of said grain caused the death of many small animals).<br><br><br><br>
Any way you look at it an veg*n diet has caused less animal death and suffering.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Yeah

 

[Scythe]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Michael</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Cows eat far more grain than humans do. Therefore more animals are still killed for a meat-based diet.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
How many of them are even fed grain? On the farms around here they eat grass and hay.

 

[Moechalatte]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vegan_slut</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I searched and searched but haven't found anything on this, but if this is a repetitive thread, I apologize.<br><br><br><br>
My cousin is trying to convince my that in the process of harvesting crops and plants and fruits, many rodents, rabbits, boll weevils, etc. are killed by machines that pick the crops from the fields. Has anyone heard anything about this?! I think he got his sources from a pretty ridiculous website (ever heard of maddox.xmission.com?). I told him to come talk to me when he had more credible sources and he hasn't yet, I don't think he really cares I think he's just trying to give me a hard time.<br><br><br><br>
What would you all say to this argument?</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I believe it 100% ... and, not to mention, thousands of other animals (spiders, crickets, ants, dragon flies....etc.) are killed by these machines, if not rabbits and rodents.<br><br><br><br>
My response to things like this is -- I wish we lived in a world where humans tried our hardest to avoid killing these creatures, but we don't. The best we can do is try to grow as much of our own food as possible so we don't contribute so much to the murder/destruction...

 

[Tempeh-Tantrums]

As others have said, do the LEAST harm...<br><br><br><br>
You kill poor helpless insects every time you drive your automobile. You kill dust mites every time you do laundry. There's no avoiding some destruction, we just try to do what harms them the least.<br><br><br><br>
Aother reason no one can truely claim they're 100% vegan.

 

[Moechalatte]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tempeh-Tantrums</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
.............<br><br><br><br>
Aother reason no one can truely claim they're 100% vegan.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I thought the actual definition of a "vegan" is someone who tries his/her absolute hardest to avoid killing animals .... so I can see how someone could be 100% vegan. It's all about the intentions right....

 

[Sevenseas]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Moechalatte</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I thought the actual definition of a "vegan" is someone who tries his/her absolute hardest to avoid killing animals .... so I can see how someone could be 100% vegan. It's all about the intentions right....</div>
</div>
<br>
I don't think anyone does try his/her absolute hardest or intends to cause no harm.

 

[Moechalatte]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't think anyone does try his/her absolute hardest or intends to cause no harm.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
It is still attainable, though, at least <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""> 100% vegan in action, on the other hand, really isn't..

 

[Moechalatte]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Scythe</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
How many of them are even fed grain? <b>On the farms around here they eat grass and hay</b>.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
That's not very typical at all, from what I've heard. Way too expensive.

 

[Sevenseas]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Moechalatte</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It is still attainable, though, at least <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""> 100% vegan in action, on the other hand, really isn't..</div>
</div>
<br>
Well I'm not sure about the common distinction between intentions and actions. If I intend to cause no harm and so I intend to e.g. get all my food from the trash, how can this intention fail to be translated into action? It sounds odd that I would intend to go to the trashcan and yet walk to a store to buy my food.

 

[Scythe]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Moechalatte</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
That's not very typical at all, from what I've heard. Way too expensive.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Grass growing unattended (unless you count killing weeds and moving cows to different paddocks) in a field costs more than grain?

 

[Ludi]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Scythe</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Grass growing unattended (unless you count killing weeds and moving cows to different paddocks) in a field costs more than grain?</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><br><br>
Most grazing animals such as cattle are started on grass and "finished" in a feedlot, where they are fed grain (or grain and chicken bedding, ground up newspapers, etc). Very few commercial animals are entirely grassfed these days.