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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Couldn't help noticing the post below about animal research. Your being led up the garden path by groups that talk of 'alternatives' The fundamental scientific FACT is that vivisection is totally and utterly USELESS. These groups that speak of 'alternatives' are led by ex-vivisectors who purposefully campaign in such a way as to be ineffectual and thus allow animal testing to continue forever, which it will if you keep swallowing their bull****, come on guys theres vegan's on this board, your not supposed to consume animal products, so spit out the crap for god's sake. Scientific fact1) Every species is a seperate biomechanical and biochemical entity. You cant recreate a spontaneous disease in even another human and learn from it, it's not the same thing as the naturally occuring one. You certainly cant recreate it in another species, they dont get our diseases and we dont get theirs. take human cancer for example, in us cancer comes in the form of carcinomas, they effect our membrane lining eg lining of lungs. Cancer in other species mice and rats for example consists of sarcoma's, they effect the bones and adjoining tissue. Therefore they cant get lung cancer, it doesn't matter how many cigs you force down them. The only purpose of the vivisection industry is to get every unsafe chemical and drug, every pesticide to cosmetic on the market without properly testing them, and then to have an alibi in court when inevitably people, die, get deformed and crippled etc the defence ' we did the animal tests and it doesn't matter how many we do they do show how a human will react.' Dont support any groups that endorse the 'alternatives' propaganda, only the groups that talk of immediate and total abolition. Groups such as 'Nature of wellness' in America, 'BAVA' in Britain, these are the genuine Anti-vivisection groups, doctors, scientists and the like with a plethora of scientific and medical facts, all talk of 'looking for alternatives' is a con designed to keep vivisection going forever, thats why so many vivisectors themselves support the 'alternative' racket.

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
'Why?' Why is looking for 'alternatives' a fraud, do you mean? or why would they do such a thing?

Well how can i put this in a shortened form. The world is run by big rich business men, David Rockefeller for example. The Rockefeller Foundation, own most of the worlds drug companies, oil companies, chemical companies, insurance companies, transport companies, American media companies et al you name it, they own it. Their also the biggest private investor in 'medical' science, and donate lots of money to universities, colleges, schools etc who in return preach the gospel of modern medicine, basically that we NEED their synthetic drugs and chemicals as 'healthcare'. This same group happily pay for the election campaigns of our politicians, who in return keep silent and or disimform the general public. The media are not the 'free press' they, due to the fact that their owned by these rich men that own the pedro-pharma-chemi axis, report what their told to report, or clean out their desks. Someone on here talked of the lack of publicity for things, i think in relation to PETA's work, well if the big corporations dont want Joe Public to hear about then they dont hear about it. To get the filth that this pedro-pharma-chemi empire manufacture onto the unsuspecting public they need the vivisection industry, as due to the fact that all species are biomechanically and biochemically seperate entities, they all react differently and aqquire diseases to one another, what applies to the mouse doesn't apply to the rat let alone the human etc Testing on animals means you can pick the data you want to publish, ie the positive, this drugs/chemical is safe data, and thus get your product out onto the market where it stays until the side effects in humans that were not revealed in the animal tests are discovered and the product has to be removed. Thosands of such drugs are removed by the FDA each year because of this very fact. The REAL science that would prove that these drugs, chemicals etc are not safe for humans does and has always existed, in vitro tests, epidiemiology, clinical studies, autopsy etc if these products were tested this way 99.99999% of them would be deemed either useless, dangerous or deadly, the big corporations dont want that. The simple fact is vivisection has never brought about a medical breakthrough, never could as the results are erronious and contradictory and only exists as a multi-billion dollar/pound alibi to the pedro-pharmi-chemi empire. Real science is not an 'alternative' to vivisection, it's the replacement, and it need not be looked for because it's always existed.

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There was another thread, which I thought this was when I first opened it, called Animals in Disease Research. That's where this thread should be merged.

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You'd think with all the "medical" research they do on animals, there would be some serious advances in vetrinary medicine. I once had a pet rat- sometimes his eye-sockets would bleed for no apparent reason- I took him to the vet and $40 later they informed me he had qluacoma(however you spell it)- and not much could be done- the vet advised glycerine drops in his water(it didn't work) I remember suppling my rat with pot stock, and seeds as I read that THC relieves occular pressure- I'm not sure if it did any thing- and my rat (Daygon) didn't seem to mind at all about eating it- I figured if it "tripped him out" too much he would not eat it- but he loved it- anyways, I forgot my point already (dang attention span!)

5,034 Posts
There are some GREAT advances..... like keeping Rats awake for long periods of time has shown that not getting enough sleep is bad for you (well, Rats at least).

Although they could just ask me how I feel right now.

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
These groups that speak of 'alternatives' are led by ex-vivisectors who purposefully campaign in such a way as to be ineffectual and thus allow animal testing to continue forever
'Naked empress' by Hans Ruesch is a good book on this.


The fundamental scientific FACT is that vivisection is totally and utterly USELESS.
Funny things these 'facts'

Animal testing could be viewed as quite USEFUL if one was trying to retard true scientific research and cause suffering to all life.

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Millions of £s of taxpayers money is currently spent on animal experiments

each year.

The NHS is overloaded because the public is constantly bombarded with hyped

up news of 'new miracle drugs and treatments', always just around the (very

long) corner. Public expectations continue to be falsely and fraudulently


There is now more chronic illness than ever before. Out of 30,000 illnesses

20,000 have no treatment or cure (Bayer advert 1989).

The following are some possible and probable causes of the modern epidemic

of new and chronic diseases. These are the very diseases for which the RDS

states we need more animal research. But they may in fact have been caused,

or facilitated, by animal 'safety' tested chemicals, and we have never heard

one word of sympathy from scientists:

1. Cancers (over 200 different types) are now the leading cause of

death in Britain. (BMJ 21/2/1998) They can be caused by: cigarettes (E p71),

pesticides (E p76), fungicides (E p103), herbicides (E p103), synthetic

hormones (E p53), radiation (E p75), hormones in food (E p75), alcohol (E

p124), nitrates and pharmaceutical drugs(MIMS) Some brain (E p73) and lung

cancers (Sunday Telegraph 1/9/96 p15) contain SV40, a monkey virus found in

old polio vaccines. Breast cancer drugs can cause uterine cancer (Observer

4/11/01) DES given to prevent miscarriages in pregnant women in the 1960s,

has caused genital cancers in daughters (E p53), Organophosphates may cause

breast cancer.(E p73)

E =The Ecologist Vol 28,No2, March/April 1998;

2. Skin cancers: The protective ozone layer in the atmosphere has been

depleted by chemicals so the sun's rays are more intense. Also may be caused

indirectly by some sun screen lotions as people do not burn so easily so

stay in the sun longer, but the harmful (shorter length) rays will penetrate

the sunscreen. Financial Times 21/1/99 Pesticides may also be involved. The

Ecologist, Vol 28, No2, March/April 1998

3. Parkinson's: can be caused by exposure to pesticides. BMJ Vol 321


4. Aids: possibly from old polio vaccine which was made using monkey

kidney cells which contained symptomless (for the monkey) SIV. 'Biohazard',

Report by NAVS, 1987; 'The River' by E Hooper. Penguin Press 1999

5. Multiple Sclerosis: may be viral in origin as, for example, the

Faroese epidemic started during World War 2 when the armed services arrived.

JRCP London Vol 4 October 1987 p287-294. Mercury tooth fillings. WDDTY

Dental Handbook 1993

6. ME/Chronic Fatigue: vaccines, pesticides. Sunday Express 19/10/97

Ecologist, March/April 1998

7. Gulf War Syndrome: OP pesticides. Vaccines (Guardian 12/2/02)

Depleted uranium (much tested on animals). Nerve gases. Sunday Express

19/10/97 Ecologist March/April 1998

8. Asthma and allergies: vaccines, especially the large numbers given

nowadays, which overload the child's underdeveloped immune system. BMJ Vol

309 15/10/94 p1001 Food additives (colourings/flavourings/preservatives).

BMJ 9/9/80 p649-651 perfumes 1999.

Household cleaning chemicals, biological washing powders. Chemicals in

synthetic materials, paints, Clin Immun 5/2/96 p102

9. Alzeimer's: (Until a few decades ago, this was quite a rare disease

and referred only to premature dementia). Chemicals in the environment

including OPs. Also monosodium glutamate and aspartamine in food: Blaydock,

Nexus 1/6/2000 p31 Mercury: WDDTY Dental Handbook 1993

10. nvCJD from vaccines containing bovine material Sunday Telegraph 9/5/99

BSE in turn possibly caused by OP pesticides Sunday Telegraph 22/8/93

11. Malformations: Thalidomide. Epilepsy drugs. Other pharmaceutical drugs.

MIMS Fungicides, herbicides, Agent Orange etc The Ecologist March/April 1998

12. Autism, Hyperactivity: Vaccines especially MMR. Thompson et al, Lancet

1995; 345:1071-1074

13. Crohn's disease: measles virus/vaccine Wakefield A Lancet 1998;


14. Liver damage: pharmaceutical drugs Drug adverts, MIMS

15. Leukaemia: indoor pesticides Epidemiology 1999; 10. 481-87 Ecologist

Vol 28 No2 p101

16 Infertility: May be caused by endocrine disrupters found in pesticides

(Ecologist Vol 28 No2 p102)

The following drugs, all animal 'safety' tested, have been withdrawn since


· Halcion (sleeping tablet/tranquilliser: caused addiction and


· Teflex (antibiotic. Caused liver/kidney failure, allergies) 1992

· Ibopamine (heart drug: increased likelihood of death) 1996

· Alredase (for diabetes. Caused deaths, liver problems) 1996

· Posicor (for hypertension. Caused harmful interactions with other

drugs) 1998

· Astemizole (Antihistamine. Caused fatal arrhythmias and also too

many similar products on the market) 1999

· Parstelon (Antidepressant. Caused severe hypertensive crises and

interactions) 1999

· Raxar (antibiotic. Caused death of 5 people, irregular heartbeats)


· Cisapride (For dyspepsia, gastric reflux. Caused serious

arrythmias) 2000

· Medeva (oral polio vaccine: contained bovine serum) 2000

· Lotronex (For irritable bowel syndrome. Caused bowel obstruction

and rupture) 2000

People who believe in animal experiments should volunteer to take part in

the first (Phase One) clinical trials, i.e. the first humans to test a drug

after the animal experiments.

Scientists who are involved in developing and patenting treatments for human

use but which have involved animal experiments, should be held wholly and

legally responsible, for life, for any adverse consequences to humans from

such treatments/pharmaceuticals.

Antivivisectionists can take animal tested drugs if they need to, because

even age old herbal and homoeopathic remedies are now being tested on

animals. We no longer have the choice.

Jill Russell February 2002

Footnote - remember the majority of vivisection is not for pharmaceuticals

but is for household and lifetsyle products e.g. oven cleaners, pesticides,

agro-chemicals, industrial toxins, wall paint etc etc. The vivisection lobby

and their political and corporate masters don't like people to know of this

and makes for a salient point as a public reminder, especially when so

many of these products are tested in duplication because of secrecy.
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