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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My hubby and I became veggo for animal rights and while he is very vocal I am not. He doesn't agree anyone should eat meat and he doesn't agree with ppl saying you a veggo that's fine I'm a meat eater I respect your choices and you should respect mine. So he gets into heated discussions with everyone that comes over that doesn't share his views become he feels so strongly about animal rights. Does anyone else feel this way or know of someone that does this?<br>
Any advice would be great.
 

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How long have you (specifically he) been veg*n? I think a lot of people are like this when they make a lifestyle change. It's like "I've discovered something great and want to let everyone else know how great it is!!" And when they don't agree the person can't understand why they haven't instantly accepted this new position. I never wanted to be that person but I'm sure I was. I bet a lot of us here have been. But you realize pretty quickly this isn't the way to change things. The best thing you can do is set a positive example through your actions. I would try to explain things to your husband like this. Ask him how many people that he's preached to have become veg*n. Help him to understand that he isn't planting seeds. He is driving people away. If he has been veg*n for a relatively short time (like less than a year) I'd say he will change on his own. If not I would definitely try to persuade him to use a new approach.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
we have been vego for 8 1/2 mths. he understands the bit about discovering something great and he doesn't see why everyone gets there backs up straight away when he says anything to do with animal cruelty. its like they don't want to hear it because it might see what they are doing, so my husband will try and push the subject to try and get them to see that eating meat is wrong and harmful. but the more he pushes the more defensive they get im sure you know the drill!!<br><br>
im trying to help him to understand but at the same time i dont want him to feel like im telling him not to have his views and opinions.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>magicdolphin</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036443"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
He doesn't agree anyone should eat meat and he doesn't agree with ppl saying you a veggo that's fine I'm a meat eater I respect your choices and you should respect mine.</div>
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Hi Magic Dolphin <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
The bit I snipped from your post is what I like to call the 'pedo-defence', as in; "I like to fiddle with little kiddies. I respect your choice not to fiddle with little kiddies and you should respect mine."<br><br>
Would you accept that one as a reason to 'respect' pedophiles? If not it is probably because, entirely to your credit, you care about kiddies.<br><br>
Your hubbie is not accepting the exact same line of defence from animal abusers because, entirely to <i>his</i> credit, he cares about animals.<br><br>
Caring (compassion) is a virtue. It needs no 'cure'. It deserves respect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
he uses the pedophile thing all the time which i dont think helps his case at all.<br><br>
he says what if i was a pedophile and i like to rape kids is that ok? and the person would go umm no your a sicko and he will then say well ill respect that you dont think its ok and you should respect that i like to do it!!
 

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There is a middle ground between "respecting other peoples choices" and hostile arguments. Both of you need to find that middle ground.<br><br>
I've found that analogies to human crimes are unlikely to be persuasive. Instead, it's helpful to make analogies to other forms of animal abuse. For example, simply remind people that pigs, cows, and chickens are not all that different from cats, dogs, and rabbits in their ability to feel pain and crave affection/love.<br><br>
To friends and family, just say something along the lines of "I'm offended by animal abuse so I can't support the meat industry. I care about you and I don't want this to come between us so I'm asking you to please eat vegetarian when you're in my home or when we go out together."<br><br>
If they ask questions, you can answer. For example, if they say "not all farmers abuse their animals" you can say "you're right. Not all farms rise to the level that you would call abuse*. But too many do. Undercover investigations prove it. You can watch Farm to Fridge to see for yourself. So while it's probably not 100% thats pure evil, over 95% of meat at grocery stores and restaurants comes from factory farms. I encourage you to read Eating Animals for details."<br><br>
Stay calm and apologize if/when things get heated. It's ok to be passionate, but don't sacrifice efficacy for passion and purity. Remember, knowledge is power!<br><br>
*when persuading others, it's important to stick to their definitions of terms to avoid confusion or alienation. People who eat animals have already declared - with their actions - that depriving animals of life is not abuse so arguing that point will only waste everyones time and frustrate your goals. Instead, remind them that factory farms violate their own values. Once you've agreed on factory farms, then you're 95% in agreement and this divide between veg and nonveg won't seem like such a large gulf.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ElaineV</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036611"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
There is a middle ground between "respecting other peoples choices" and hostile arguments. Both of you need to find that middle ground.<br><br>
I've found that analogies to human crimes are unlikely to be persuasive. Instead, it's helpful to make analogies to other forms of animal abuse. For example, simply remind people that pigs, cows, and chickens are not all that different from cats, dogs, and rabbits in their ability to feel pain and crave affection/love.<br><br>
To friends and family, just say something along the lines of "I'm offended by animal abuse so I can't support the meat industry. I care about you and I don't want this to come between us so I'm asking you to please eat vegetarian when you're in my home or when we go out together."<br><br>
If they ask questions, you can answer. For example, if they say "not all farmers abuse their animals" you can say "you're right. Not all farms rise to the level that you would call abuse*. But too many do. Undercover investigations prove it. You can watch Farm to Fridge to see for yourself. So while it's probably not 100% thats pure evil, over 95% of meat at grocery stores and restaurants comes from factory farms. I encourage you to read Eating Animals for details."<br><br>
Stay calm and apologize if/when things get heated. It's ok to be passionate, but don't sacrifice efficacy for passion and purity. Remember, knowledge is power!<br><br>
*when persuading others, it's important to stick to their definitions of terms to avoid confusion or alienation. People who eat animals have already declared - with their actions - that depriving animals of life is not abuse so arguing that point will only waste everyones time and frustrate your goals. Instead, remind them that factory farms violate their own values. Once you've agreed on factory farms, then you're 95% in agreement and this divide between veg and nonveg won't seem like such a large gulf.</div>
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^This
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ElaineV</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036611"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To friends and family, just say something along the lines of "I'm offended by animal abuse so I can't support the meat industry. I care about you and I don't want this to come between us so I'm asking you to please eat vegetarian when you're in my home or when we go out together."</div>
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Is this something you've personally done? I can understand that you don't allow meat in your home but do people really all eat vegetarian when they are eating at a restaurant with you?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>dividedsky</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036776"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Is this something you've personally done? I can understand that you don't allow meat in your home but do people really all eat vegetarian when they are eating at a restaurant with you?</div>
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I was wondering that, too.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>magicdolphin</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036490"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
he uses the pedophile thing all the time which i dont think helps his case at all!</div>
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Oh it does help, trust me it does ...<br><br>
It quickly sifts out the ones who are willing to think things through from those who are simply not going to settle for anything but some variation on "eating meat is perfectly ok".
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks ElaineV thats some really good advice!!<br><br>
Clueless Git I guess that is true. I don't know when he says it, it makes me uncomfortable!
 

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Hi Everyone.<br><br>
My name is Brett and I am the husband who can't keep his opinions to himself. =)<br><br>
Firstly thank you all for your warm feedback. How refreshing it is to not have to justify my right to speek my mind.<br><br><br>
@dividedsky<br><br>
When I ate meat I felt that it was wrong. The reason is a book I read on philosophy that had a chapter on the consumption of meat. It was very compelling and changed my belief, but it was years later that I changed my lifestyle.<br><br>
My mum has been a vegetarian for years, and she became a vegan which inspired me to become vegetarian<br><br>
I have not been vegan long (only really starting to commit in the last few weeks), but I was a vegetarian for a several months and during that time I avoided some animal products that I used to consume (eggs, milk) but still consumed others (chocolate, other foods containing dairy).<br><br>
As you said, most vegans seem to go through a "phase" at the start where they have discovered something great, and they want to share it with the world. However due to the wrong aproaches these attempts to "share the wisdom" come off as attempts to "point fingers" and "look down at people".<br><br>
I am improving my techniques, and learning a little about phychology along the way. I am also attempting to improve the timing of my discussions. For example if the only thing you talk about is not eating meat then you wont be very fun to be around. Additionally, you cant win them all, and some aren't worth trying.<br><br>
My most recent problem/confrontation was a joke I posted on my FB wall (how many meat-eaters to change a lightbulb? none, they would rather be in the dark). One of magicdolphin's family members responded with spite. If people want to comment then I will discuss issues with them. But if people flame me with remarks like "Im over it, im off to have a bacon and egg roll", then I may respond with a remark like "Yes and it will go straight to your fat ass". The problem is that I went too far with my remark. The person I "called fat" does not want to discuss it with me, but she is more than happy to give her side to the whole family who happen to agree with her (without talking to me at all) and have decided to exclude me, and therefore make it harder for magicdolphin to be part of her own family. Things can quicky turn ugly once the other person doesn't want to hear your point of view.<br><br><br>
@Clueless Git<br><br>
"pedo-defence", lol. Yes it will siv through the ones that aren't worth it, but it will quickly break down other avenues of conversation. I think if this tact has to be used then it should be one of the last scenarios you put to them.<br><br><br>
@ElaineV<br><br>
Most people cannot seem to find compassion in their heart for an animal that was "bred for food". Society finds it "gross" to eat dog, but fine to eat cow. Some people cannot (don't want to?) feel compassion for animals that are food. This can be also identified without the cross-species analagy in other societies that eat dog; People will visit the markets where they will find pet dogs, and food dogs (at the same market!). Food dogs will be clearly marked on their cages, but I expect the breeds would be self-evident which is for food. My point is people will not eat the dogs that are for pets, but they will eat the dogs that are for food. Society has severed their emotion and sometimes logic cannot bring this emotional attachment back.<br><br>
Great advice on staying calm. Always have to remember that if things start to get out of control:<br>
will having a heated battle help? (no)<br>
is there something I can do to prevent it getting too far? (if yes, do it... stop the conversation, and evaluate if the outcome will be worth the effort to continue)<br><br>
Also great advice on sticking to being against "Factory Farming". I'm not against family and friends, but against factory farms, because thats where most of the bad happens.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">The bit I snipped from your post is what I like to call the 'pedo-defence', as in; "I like to fiddle with little kiddies. I respect your choice not to fiddle with little kiddies and you should respect mine."</div>
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Lot's of folks will object to this being an example of comparing apples and oranges, and I'd agree that it is. Eating meat is socially acceptable whether me or anyone else thinks it should be. Pedophilia is not generally seen as socially acceptable, especially when expressed in a predatory fashion as in the example. Pointing to a similar behavior that is generally seen as unacceptable will be more fruitful than grabbing at a near universally reviled example and attempting to draw a parallel.<br><br>
The public is largely on the side of animals when asked about wanton cruelty. They generally support institutionalized cruelty. It's up to advocates (that'd be us <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> ) to demonstrate the disconnect.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>LedBoots</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036790"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I was wondering that, too.</div>
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Hmmmm ...<br><br>
I am going to guess that Elaine's freinds have enough respect for her that they will do that for her.<br><br>
Fiver on it? Anybody?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dave in MPLS</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036949"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Lot's of folks will object to this being an example of comparing apples and oranges, and I'd agree that it is. Eating meat is socially acceptable whether me or anyone else thinks it should be. Pedophilia is not generally seen as socially acceptable, especially when expressed in a predatory fashion as in the example. Pointing to a similar behavior that is generally seen as unacceptable will be more fruitful than grabbing at a near universally reviled example and attempting to draw a parallel.<br><br>
The public is largely on the side of animals when asked about wanton cruelty. They generally support institutionalized cruelty. It's up to advocates (that'd be us <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> ) to demonstrate the disconnect.</div>
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If I read you correctly Dave then I agree ..<br><br>
Pedophilia doesn't have to be the alternate 'crime' that the "I respect you doing right, you respect my doing wrong" argument hinges on.<br><br>
Could be seal clubbing, fox hunting, vivisection or something ..<br><br>
Pedophilia is simpy the 'catch all' as that particular form of predation is something to which, as close as matters, every one is opposed.<br><br>
Tidy it up folks. The logic is sound so long as you hit on something to which the person you are addressing is strongly opposed.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>cornernote</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036943"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
@Clueless Git<br><br>
"pedo-defence", lol. Yes it will siv through the ones that aren't worth it, but it will quickly break down other avenues of conversation. I think if this tact has to be used then it should be one of the last scenarios you put to them.</div>
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Do we actualy have any choice but to address the 'pedo-defence' at whatever point it is used?<br><br>
Welcome to the forum Brett. Great to have you on board <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">The logic is sound so long as you hit on something to which the person you are addressing is strongly opposed. \t\t\t\t\t\t</div>
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I'd add that they must see the two as comparable. The beauty about sticking to issues involving critters is that the parallels are pretty much built in. The parallels between how we act towards other humans and how we act towards other critters are fascinating but can seem nebulous. The relationship between bunny as companion and bunny as dinner (for example) seems a natural vehicle for discussing the issue.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>magicdolphin</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036904"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
thanks ElaineV thats some really good advice!!<br><br>
Clueless Git I guess that is true. I don't know when he says it, it makes me uncomfortable!</div>
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Social discomfort is a difficult one MD.<br><br>
It may help to put mere social discomfort into perspective if we ponder deeply upon <i>real</i> discomforts; Like the discomfort of living ones entire short miserable life locked up in a stinking battery farm pen or cage?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dave in MPLS</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3036964"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'd add that they must see the two as comparable.</div>
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But they are comparable in many many ways Dave.<br><br>
Enough so that the comparisons can easily be made impossible not to see.<br><br>
Not equivalents though.<br><br>
You do have to watch out for the weaker mind that cannot grasp that thing wich are not equivalents can still be compared, obviously.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">The relationship between bunny as companion and bunny as dinner (for example) seems a natural vehicle for discussing the issue.</div>
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People still cannot see the relationship. The bunny for dinner was FOR dinner. The bunny for a pet was FOR a pet. Even if its the same type of animal (and in some cases the same actual animal) people still believe that it is their god given right to eat it so long as society does not consider it "gross". For example, if a family ate dogs in my neighborhood I am sure that most people would find this disturbing. However if I was to keep a pet sheep for a year, then eat it, this would be normal.
 
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