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Arrrg! Me mateys.
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I was browsing the online shops, looking if I see anything interesting to buy for my herbivorous fuzzbutts. I decided to look at rabbit treats, even though I make my own which they go crazy over (particularly Basil). I came across a cute-sounding treat: "Veggie Os" by Sunseed. I go to look up the ingredients, and what do I see? Fish meal. In a product intended for herbivores. How wrong is that? Not only do we, as humans, have to sift though products that contain animal ingredients which could easily be avoided (and otherwise veg*n), but for our small herbivore friends, as well. It's being used as a protein source, which is insanely easy to do with plants. But what can you expect from a company whose main concern, no doubt, is profit. (Take a look at the brand Kaytee, for example. A lot of hamster/chinchilla/etc. foods are all junk, no substance. Not nutritionally sufficient at all, and full of fat and sugar. Dyed to appeal to the human eye, which works and rakes in a lot.)<br><br>
I'd feel very, very wrong about feeding ground up fish to my little plant eating bunnies. I'm sure there are people out there who don't care (the product exists, first of all), but it just screams "Eww" to me. Never in a million years would it have even crossed my mind that some dead animals are in a package of treats marketed for herbivores. You'd think herbivorous animals = plant-based treats, but no. I've never seen a rabbit eat a fish. Why start now.<br><br>
There isn't really a point to this, but now all I can wonder is, "How many other products out there has these things in them that I don't/didn't know about, labeled or not." If I could make my own food pellets for my bungoos, I would. That way I know exactly what is being fed to them, and can avoid this altogether. Ugh.<br><br>
Edit: Apparently I've really been in the dark about this. Looks like some pellets for rabbits contain animal fats: <a href="http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-4/pellets.html" target="_blank">http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-4/pellets.html</a><br>
The buns don't get much to begin with (mostly fresh food and hay) so I'm not worried about them, but I don't trust myself fully to provide proper nutrients for my degus without the use of them in a concentrated form like pellets.
 

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Hmm I am not supprised. I wonder what the health implecations are for herbivores eating animal products?<br><br>
I didn't feed my rabbit many treats other than fresh herbs/fruits, and a brand of treats I found based on natrual ingrediants which consisted soley of plants. They make rabbit chocolate and rabbit popcorn and lord knows what else, and while people feel like they're being kind by treating their bunnies, the rabbits would just as much prefer plant-based treats, and it would be healthier for them in the long run. I've seen people feed their rabbits rabbit treats by the handful, even though the packet says no more than one or two a day. So I agree with you that it should be expected that companies who produce rabbit-junk food shouldn't really be trusted - isn't it bad enough we feed ourselves crap that's bad for us without doing it to animals.<br><br>
As for the rabbit pellets though, I did not know that and have no idea about my owns food (he's at my parents home so I can't check). You could look for an animal-free brand? If you don't feel confidant feeding them pellet free I'd agree it's best not to, you're rabbits health is the most important thing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Arrrg! Me mateys.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah. When it comes to food marketed to humans, I have never surprised to learn there is some junk put into foods for seemingly no completely valid reason, or fish in "veg*n products", whatever. But it never crossed my mind that it would go on with non-human food, too. Makes complete sense, and I really shouldn't be surprised, but still. I'm just amazed at this.<br><br>
Chocolate for rabbits? Oy vey.<br><br>
I like to go with the rule "If I wouldn't eat it, I wouldn't feed it to my monsters". As I was comparing many brands last night after this discovery, I haven't found one without vitamin D3 in it, or without an insane (in my opinion) amount of protein. Nor can I even find a chinchilla/guinea food that doesn't have both D3 and sugar/molasses in the ingredients list, or a degu specific one without D3. (Beaphar XtraVital is the exception because I have never found a complete ingredients list. But it doesn't even matter anyways because I can't get it in the United States.) But then I realized my buns don't see enough sun to produce it themselves, and the degus even less, so I'm just going to have to pick my battles in order to keep them healthy. Sucks though.<br><br>
For the buns, they really don't need pellets anyways, as we can always just up the fresh foods and eliminate the pellets altogether, getting rid of that worry. But I worry that will get very expensive off season 'round these parts. And the produce that is available wouldn't be of best quality, or not sprayed with a cruise ship full of pesticides and whatnot. (Right now they're starting to get a bit larger variety of produce to munch on since spring is just around the corner and some plants are growing in)<br><br>
Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to care so much. It's so much easier to be ignorant or to just not care. But then I see a snuggly 'goo pile or a bun pyramid, and I melt into a pile of squishy sludge because the cuteness, and then want to give them the world. And to also turn into a bun/goo.
 

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I thought about asking if there's a vegan rabbit food years ago. We can get vegan dog food but not vegan rabbit pellets, that doesn't seem right <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dizzy2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":dizzy:"><br>
Puppet Master, do you know how pellet-free the rabbits would get vitamin D? For outdoor rabbits in the summer it shouldn't be much of a problem, but i wonder about the other ones.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Identity_thief</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2832630"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Hmm I am not supprised. I wonder what the health implecations are for herbivores eating animal products?</div>
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Probably inconsequential since they are unintentional omnivores in the wild. Every herbivorous animal will ingest some other animal-derived material at some point during feeding, whether it's a whole insect or a part of one. Fish meal in rabbit food is pushing the envelope, though.
 

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<span>Did you know that those seed-stick type of treats have gelatin in them too? Yucky! They shouldn't even be having those anyways, but it's just gross.</span><br><br><span>The only treats Smudge gets are home-made treats, or dried papaya treats.</span><br><br><span>(BTW, what kind of treats do you make? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> )</span>
 

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Wow, RabbitLuvr, that's really sad. People are such idiots sometimes.
 

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<span>Wow, that's disturbing. Poor bun-bun.</span><br><br><span>I give Smudge 1/8 cup of Oxbow Timothy pellets, so those are basically his "treat". He gets SO excited about it too, LOL! I put them in a Slim Cat ball that he has to roll around to get them out... So it's a treat, entertainment, and vitamins all at the same time. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"></span>
 

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Arrrg! Me mateys.
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>faded_amaranth</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2832803"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Puppet Master, do you know how pellet-free the rabbits would get vitamin D? For outdoor rabbits in the summer it shouldn't be much of a problem, but i wonder about the other ones.</div>
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Ah, when I typed up that post I was half asleep. I reread it and some of it doesn't make sense to me.<br>
I have no clue. I'm wondering if the mention about rabbits not needing pellets at all is referring to the ones who live in areas where there's a fair amount of sun year round, as opposed to ones like my buns, who live where there's about 6 months much sun/6 months little sun. And I remember reading about lamps intended for, probably reptiles or similar family, that simulate the sun and trigger the body to synthesize D3. I have no clue if those even work, or if anyone actually uses them for their buns. Something I should look up, I guess.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jess4921</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2832999"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><span>Did you know that those seed-stick type of treats have gelatin in them too? Yucky! They shouldn't even be having those anyways, but it's just gross.</span><br><br><span>The only treats Smudge gets are home-made treats, or dried papaya treats.</span><br><br><span>(BTW, what kind of treats do you make? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> )</span></div>
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I did not know that! Gross.<br><br>
I toss whatever I may have at the time into a bowl (like apples, papaya, or banana, carrots, celery, oats, greens, some vegetable I have) with some food. Grind it all up, add water to make it moldable, flatten it until it's somewhat even, take this little heart cookie cutter and press it in. Bake them in the oven until they're just slightly soft. Basil likes to watch where you put the bag of treats after giving them one, then tries to go get it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br>
I also give them dried papaya, banana, or apple chips, and on occasion raisins.
 

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Arrrg! Me mateys.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>RabbitLuvr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2833068"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Last year my MIL gave me a packet of bunny treats, I don't even know what was in the center of them, but they were covered in YOGURT. Um. Rabbits shouldn't be having dairy! (I thanked her, but explained why I would not give them to the bunnies, she said she'd sell them in her next yard sale. So I gave her 50 cents and threw those vile things in the trash.)</div>
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Ugh. Last year I bought this multi-pack of treats and food online, and two of the bags of treats contain milk. Yogurt drops and some calcium thing with whey or milk powder in it (can't remember). I didn't even realize that until after I got them. Needless to say I never gave those to them, and I think they're still sitting in a box in the garage unless someone threw them out.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>RabbitLuvr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2833068"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I know someone who insists of feeding her bunny large amounts of inappropriate treats. Her vet even told her the bunny was overweight and in danger of developing diabetes, but she STILL gave it large handfuls of Cheerio's and Craisins. I suggested she at least switch to dried cranberries with no added sugar (at least!) but her excuse was...."but he loves them so much!)<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/mad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":mad:"></div>
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*sigh* I've known people like that. And it's useless to try and suggest alternatives because of that "they like it" stance. Poor bun.<br><br><br><br>
Oh and this reminds me of when I found a webpage about a classroom "class pets", one of which was a degu. It looks like the kids had to write info on one of the species in the class, and while all the kids who had wrote about degus said they are herbivores (which they are), they were only fed cat food. I was about 13 at the time, and sent an angry letter (as angry as a 13 year old can write) and filled it with info about them to the school. I got a reply back from an administrator or someone who said they'd talk to the teacher. Always stickin' up for the herbivores, I guess.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Puppet Master</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2833361"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Ah, when I typed up that post I was half asleep. I reread it and some of it doesn't make sense to me.<br>
I have no clue. I'm wondering if the mention about rabbits not needing pellets at all is referring to the ones who live in areas where there's a fair amount of sun year round, as opposed to ones like my buns, who live where there's about 6 months much sun/6 months little sun. And I remember reading about lamps intended for, probably reptiles or similar family, that simulate the sun and trigger the body to synthesize D3. I have no clue if those even work, or if anyone actually uses them for their buns. Something I should look up, I guess.<br><br><br>
I did not know that! Gross.<br><br>
I toss whatever I may have at the time into a bowl (like apples, papaya, or banana, carrots, celery, oats, greens, some vegetable I have) with some food. Grind it all up, add water to make it moldable, flatten it until it's somewhat even, take this little heart cookie cutter and press it in. Bake them in the oven until they're just slightly soft. Basil likes to watch where you put the bag of treats after giving them one, then tries to go get it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"><br>
I also give them dried papaya, banana, or apple chips, and on occasion raisins.</div>
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<br><span>Oooh, thanks for the idea! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"></span><br><br><span>And the only UVB lights that are strong enough to allow reptiles to produce their own D3 with are called Mercury Vapor bulbs... Unless your bun enjoys basking in 90*F + temperatures, I wouldn't recommend it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"></span><br><span>I give my lizard a calcium supplement that has D3 in it, but I've never heard of giving bunnies D3.</span>
 
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