I'm going to start with one example, in order to explain why this site is misleading, and its claims about the origin of various materials are often wrong.
OK? Let's start with carbamide. Is carbamide a synonym for urea? Yes. So far, so good. The entry for carbamide says that carbamide is "found in urine and other body fluids. Also produced synthetically..."
So if you see an ingredient list, and the ingredient carbamide is on the list, then you can assume that most likely that carbamide came from an animal source, though there is some possibility that it came from a "synthetic" source, but that the product is probably not suitable for vegans, right? Wrong.
In fact, virtually zero percent of commercial urea comes from animal sources. It is much much cheaper to make urea synthetically, from air, and natural gas (or petroleum may be substituted for natural gas).
By the way, water is "found in urine and other body fluids," also. Is water non-vegan?
BETA CAROTENE: Provitamin A. Carotene. Found in many animal tissues an in all plants. Used as a coloring in cosmetics and in the manufacture of Vitamin A.
Wrong. Beta carotene, and carotene in general, is not found in animal tissues, in any significant quantity. Commercial sources of Beta carotene are always plant products. Commercial sources of Vitamin A, on the other hand, can, and often are, derivied from animal tissues. But if the ingredient listed is "beta carotene" it is absolutely unequivocally a plant product -- unless of course the company is lying about the ingredients.
I've looked all over. I believe that the only reasonably accurate unified list of materials which indicates whether each material on the list, is animal or plant, is at http://www.materials.addr.com/mindex.html And it is a short list, because I am not superman. But the reason I started it, was because I couldn't find a half-way decent list, anywhere else.
Matt writes: "Take a look at this one also soilman. Seems to list similar ingredients."
Seems to be an unexamined, unskeptical copy of the other list, with just a few minor changes. Each time someone simply copies the same uncopyrighted list, and adds or subtracts a little bit ot text, the "information" gets more preposterous.
Talking about nasty ingredients. You know, I was at the beauty supply shop over the weekend and I was checkin out the hair stuff. I saw (and I've actually seen them before too) placenta hair treatments. Do you think this is the placenta from giving birth???? I don't know of any other source of placenta. Does anyone else?
And how is this collected? It really bothered me when I saw it.
Some products use placentas from other mammals; I seem to remember hearing claims for human placenta too. There is a long tradition in many parts of the world of placentas being perceived as having "magical" or simply "special" value, for all kind of things.
Yes, they simply collect the placenta that the mother mammal gives birth to, rather than bury it or burn it or whatever.
I'm sure they have never been shown scientifically to have any real value, in any cosmetics or hair treatments or skin lotions, that they are added to.
ANIMAL OILS AND FATS: In foods, cosmetics, etc. Highly allergenic. Plant derivatives are superior. Alternatives: olive oil, wheat germ oil, coconut oil, almond oil, safflower oil, etc.
Animal oils and fats come from animals? Really? I never would have figured that out, if I didn't have the "definitive list." Duh.
Oh, and they are highly allergenic, and plant derivatives are superior. Obviously. Plants are better. For example poison ivy oil, which comes from the poison ivy plant, is better in soups and stews, than animal fats, is less allergenic, and is a superior nutrient. Absolutely.
I wonder now how the placenta is collected. Do farmers know to save it because it has resale value? I hardly think that these companies would keep animals pregnant just so that they can harvest the placents, do you? And how would one collect it? Like, doesn't the placenta come out with the baby? Wouldn't there have to be some kind of container propped underneath the animal to catch it? This is really a mystery to me how they do this. I don't know why I'm concerned with it..it just seem bizaar in a way. Soilman, do you know anything else that would help me understand this process? Thanks.
COLLAGEN: A fibrous protein in vertebrates. Usually derived from animal tissue. In cosmetics. Can't affect the skin's own collagen. Alternatives: soy protein, almond oil, amla oil (from Indian tree's fruit).
No, no, no. Until recently, maybe about a year or 2 ago, with the development of collagen made by splicing animal genes into bacteria, cultivating the bacteria, and isolating the mammalian collagen or human collagen they produce, theonly way to get collagen, was to take it from animal tissues. If the collagen in a product is gene-spliced collagen, the label will proudly say so. Something listed as simply being "collagen" is undoubtedly always from from a mammallian source such as a pig, or steer, as opposed to being "usually" from an animal source.
Right, animal collagen dumped onto hair, skin, or nails, cannot affect the collagen in one's hair, nails, or skin. But it could conceivably could if you eat it. But -- soy protein cannot affect the collagen in your hair, skin, or nails either, if dumped on your hair, skin or nails. What absurd logic they are dumping on us here: collagen can't help you, but soy protein is a good substitute -- because it can't help you in the exact same way that collagen can't help you. Thanks, that was a big help.
No, I know nothing about placenta commerce, MsRuthieB. But I don't see why they would need a container to "catch" it. Usually discharging the placenta is an easy job, compared to discharging the baby. It is smaller, and softer, and comes out afterwards. I don't know how long afterwards, in various domestic animals. Discharging the baby is more often difficult in domestic animals, than it is in wild animals -- the way it is difficult in (domestic) humans. So the animal may or may not need help from the farmer, to deliver the baby -- but probably can deliver the placenta without assistance. Vealprincess probably knows how farmers deal with the afterbirth, if they are saving it for commercial sale. They probably pick up the placenta, from the bedding in the barn, or from the ground, hose it off, and place it in a container, and keep it refrigerated, or maybe freeze it. I'm just guessing.
Yep I'm acquainted with VON. I do not adhere to "organic" gardening "principles." I use huge amounts of compost, and i plant cover crops and green manures, but I also amend my soil with industrially-produced plant foods, where needed for increased yield, and I use pesticides, if necessary.
Maple syrup may not be absolutely strictly vegan, but animal fats, if they are used, are only used in tiny amounts. I'd guess that probably a larger quantity of (human) animal fat gets into a jar of maple syrup, if you momentarily poke your finger into the jar, than the quantity that is put there by the producer or packer. Human skin secretes oil -- animal fat.
Oil floats on top of water. Maple syrup is about 1/2 water. I think any oil in it would float on top. I wouldn't be surprised if there is oil floating on top, but in the an amount that is microscopic, and therefore you can't see it. I don't really want to worry about microscopic amounts of oil. If while I'm leaning over to see if I can see any oil floating on top, a piece of dandruff from my head-hair falls into the jar -- I figure that is probably more oil than was in the jar to begin with.
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