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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why are so many people so tolerant of dog feces all over their back yard, yet so careful about how humans dispose of their feces? Aren't dogs perfectly capable of being trained to defecate in prescribed places; aren't people just as able to dispose of dog feces promptly, and properly, as they able to dispose of their own feces, and that of children and babies? Isn't dog feces even worse, to have around, than human feces?<br><br><br><br>
I don't get it. Why, in some people's back yards, is it necessary for me to be constantly looking down at my feet, in order to avoid stepping in dog feces? Why do their think their backyard is "clean", but my backyard, because it has compost piles (which is largely odorless, and smells like natural forest soil), is "messy."
 

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Because it's weird hippy-stuff, obviously. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Why don't you just tell your neighbors, "Compost happens"?
 

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It is interesting that man is made of all the basic minerals of soil and we can survive on soil produced produce. Is Brown rice a part of your diet ? Or fish, ever?
 

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When I find a dog turd where it doesn't belong, I am angry. If I were to find a human turd where it didn't belong, well, I think I'd be scared.
 

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That is so true, if you don't have enough land for a dog to go in some bushes or something, a doggie toliet would be a good idea. I've been on someones' lawn that was so covered in doggie doo, that it was hard to step around.
 

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I have dog excrement in my yard and I don't own a dog....<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Amy SF</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Why don't you just tell your neighbors, "Compost happens"?</div>
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<br><br><br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:">
 

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IF I had a lawn, my dogs would certainly end up pooping on it at one point or another...but it would be cleaned up immediately. Same thing as when we are out for a walk, a hike, or a pee break in an empty lot. If it's pee, let it be. If it's poop, time to scoop!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
"If it's pee, let it be. If it's poop, time to scoop!"<br><br><br><br>
While pee is a less overt problem, it is still a problem.<br><br><br><br>
While an occasional dog pee in a relatively unpopulated rural area should not be a problem, repeated urination by all the dogs that may be within just a few square feet, of a suburban or semi-rural area, can over the course of a few months, cause long-term changes in the soil. Urine is very high in nitrates and causes eutrophication. Plus it contains heavy metals. The whole local-plant-profile will change. Food plants grown in dog-pee areas will contain excessive amounts of heavy metals. When people leave their lawns uncut few more than a week, you will see the long-term changes around the mailbox posts and roadsign posts, not to mention the fire-hydrants, that results from the high concentration of dogs in an area — the grass for a 5-foot radius around those posts will be 3 times as high as the rest of the grass, and twice as green. This is all due to just urine, and just from the male dogs. The females are leaving urine over a wider area.<br><br><br><br>
I've noticed that the places where male dogs urinate are often the same places where children wait for school busses. I've also noticed that back in the days of real metal hubcaps (instead of the plastic hubcaps that look like metal, that we have today) there was often a pattern of rusty hubcaps on all the cars in an area, due to male dogs urinating on the hubcaps.
 

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Don't worry. I live in a densely populated area of Seoul, which also happens to be densely populated. People don't grow things here. My dogs pee in an abandoned lot that people use to park their cars.<br><br><br><br>
And I doubt that the urine of my two little dogs is greater than the urine of all the Korean men who pee there. Korean men see nothing wrong with peeing in public (they do try to turn their backs) and when they are drunk, man can they ever pee!<br><br><br><br>
Oh, and no schoolchildren wait for buses there. Nor do they ever play there. They prefer by far to play in the streets as even parks are quite nasty with trash, garbage, beer bottles, puke puddles...and, everyone knows that drunks pee a lot. ^_^
 

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Soilman I catch your drift, and believe me I'm as annoyed as the next guy when I step in a dog turd. But that's my own damn fault for not watching where I step. I agree that cities and public areas should be kept clean of all feces (and yep, I've seen a few piles of <i>feces homo sapiens</i> in Central Park before). But when it comes to peoples' own back yards, why should we care if they toilet train their animals or cut their grass? Sure, it's an eyesore, but the earth existed for a few billion years before lawn mowers and pooper scoopers. I doubt excrement has such a devastating environmental impact as we'd like to believe. Check out the ingredient list for fertilizer. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)">
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
deflatormouse "But that's my own damn fault for not watching where I step"<br><br><br><br>
Right, blame the victim.<br><br><br><br>
" Check out the ingredient list for fertilizer. "<br><br><br><br>
Actually, cooperative extension (univeristy-based scientific agriculture educational and advisory org, that the government supports, and is estableishe to help farmers) and virtually all experts recommend against using the excrement of carnivorous animals food feeding plants that are going to be eaten. Also, even the excrement from herbivorous animals is not nearly so safe as the poplular mythology would have people think. It must be properly treated first to be sure it doesn't pass disease, and must be used in moderation to prevent accumulation of heavy metals in the soil. The feces of herbivorous animals was accepted in the past, because before the invetion of modern industrially-produced nitrogen plant food, food shortages and potential starvation was always in the back of people's minds, everywhere. Better to use animal excrement than starve. But it is NOT better to use animal excrement than to use compost made in a bin, instead of in an animal's digestive tract. While the feces of herbivorous animals is considered marginally suitabel of use, if certain precautions are taken, and better sources of nitrogen are in dangerously short supply, the feces from carnivorous animals should NEVER be used.<br><br><br><br>
This idea that has become part of pop culture, that animal excrement is synonymous with plant food, is a dangerous myth.
 

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Well your agricultural/scientific expertise & citations are not in question. But what I was saying is that the natural order of Earth has existed by using feculent and rotting materials as an essential part of the ecosystem since day 1. Recent scientific reports may be fine, but there's no disputing the fact that poop works the way nature designed it, without all the modifications invented by the agricultural industry in the last 80 years. That's why I'm having a hard time understanding your argument that feces is harmful to the environment.<br><br><br><br>
And about blaming the "victim"... If you call the person a victim, then who exactly is the aggressor in the scenario. The turd? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>DeflatorMouse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But when it comes to peoples' own back yards, why should we care if they toilet train their animals or cut their grass? Sure, it's an eyesore, but the earth existed for a few billion years before lawn mowers and pooper scoopers. I doubt excrement has such a devastating environmental impact as we'd like to believe. Check out the ingredient list for fertilizer. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"></div>
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It is isn't just a eyesore is stinks like HELL. I worked really hard one year on my backyard. I cleaned up all the weeds, planted flowers and ground cover. While my neighbors decided to have three dogs in a small yard and they never ever cleaned up the poop!! I never went in my backyard because it smelled so bad. I have a dog and when he poops I scoop.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>DeflatorMouse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br><br><br>
And about blaming the "victim"... If you call the person a victim, then who exactly is the aggressor in the scenario. The turd? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"></div>
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<br><br><br><span style="color:#008000;"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/laugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":lol:"></span>
 

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Controls laughter at the idea of agressor turds...<br><br><br><br>
I guess you could make the argument that there's a lot more carnivore and omnivore turd around in our environment that there ever would have been in the past because people keep cats and dogs as pets, where as in a natural environment, there would be far fewer predator species, and thus, far less predator crap.
 

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I currently have cat turds on my lawn, I don't know whether it's our cat or someone else's, Pan is usually good at covering. Kinda feel bad for our lawn mower guy.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>soilman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
While the feces of herbivorous animals is considered marginally suitabel of use, if certain precautions are taken, and better sources of nitrogen are in dangerously short supply, the feces from carnivorous animals should NEVER be used.<br></div>
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My dogs are vegan. Perhaps there woudl be a market for their poop? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
deflatormouse "here's no disputing the fact that poop works the way nature designed it, without all the modifications invented by the agricultural industry in the last 80 years. That's why I'm having a hard time understanding your argument that feces is harmful to the environment.<br><br><br><br>
And about blaming the "victim"... If you call the person a victim, then who exactly is the aggressor in the scenario. The turd? "<br><br><br><br>
Nature did not design anything. In a natural ecosystem, nitrogenous matter that can be absorbed by plant's roots is the result of decaying plant matter, and in a very tiny amount, decaying animal matter.<br><br><br><br>
Only a tiny part is decaying vegetable matter has first passed thru an (herbivorous) animal's digestive tract, and since there are many more herbivorous animals than omnivorous and especially, carnivorous animals, only an even tinier portion of the decaying matter availabe to plant roots, is animal matter that has first passed thru a carnivorous animal's digestive tract. And of course, all this animal matter can be traced back to plants.<br><br><br><br>
All the matter for plant food can come from micro-organims and green plants. Animals form only a tiny part of an ecosystem. All the nutrition that plants need can come from decaying plants. A full description of the nitrogen cycle is available in a number of books and articles. While animals can be included, they are not necessary to feed plants. A few plants need animals for things like seed dispersal. But for providing plants with food, animal matter is unnecessary. Animal matter, both animal tissue and excretions, can be used by plants, when it decays. But it is simpler and more direct for plants to feed on decaying plants.<br><br><br><br>
The aggressor in this situation is the dog owner.
 
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