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<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/937679.asp?0cv=KB10&cp1=1" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/937679.asp?0cv=KB10&cp1=1</a>
 

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<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/937679.asp" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/937679.asp</a><br><br><br><br>
wow!! who would have thought? pets experience emotion... good thing cows and pigs don't yet... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:">
 

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This is the third time (maybe the second, because I can't find mine) that this has been posted. It's great to see, though. We have to walk people to our point of view, you know?
 

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oops. i guess i haven't been very up to date with the news lately. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

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There- only one thread now. you know you can PM someone or do a report post when this happens <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
Sure you posted it first, Epski. Yeah, right. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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let me second that well duh......!!!!!!<br><br>
My dad used to have a dog that when you came home she would race from one end of the house to the other, jump around in circles, then jump up on you and proceed to lick you for the next 5 minutes, meanwhile her tail is wagging 100 mph the whole time, yeah no emotions there or anything....<br><br>
and jealousy....If my fiance and i try and hug or even get too close my dog will try and get in between us and jump up on us as if to say "what about me don't you love me too???" and if we even so much as look at the cat she comes running to get attention...<br><br><br><br>
hehe next thing you know they will me trying to tell us animals feel pain...
 

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I know for a fact that cats experience emotion. Jasper doesn't just bug me when he wants feeding or when he wants to go out. Also, cats are very independent, and their choice to stay with humans is one made by them. Jasper likes my company, and he enjoys being with my family. (He likes me best) If he wanted, he could piss off and scrounge, (Our other cat did that after we got the dog) but he wants to stay with our family.<br><br><br><br>
Dunno about dogs though, I'm not relaly a dog-person.
 

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i suppose my bird just rubs her face on mine to scratch that nasty itch she must have...... how presumptuous people are...like nothing else on the planet thinks or feels but us?! yeesh!
 

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As someone who has a fairly decent understanding and a great respect for rational- and observation-based knowledge like mathematics and science, it amazes me how incredibly stupid some scientists are. These scientists live solely in a one dimensional, true / false world of "IT". Since emotion, "good" and "bad", and other subjective or interpretive knowledge does not fall into their measurable, one-dimensional world, they believe it has no validity as knowledge whatsoever. Such a worldview is like trying to taste food by putting it into your ear, or trying to see things by closing your eyes and sticking out your tongue and then denying that tasting and seeing, respectively, are valid forms of sense perception. For all the great achievements of mathematics and science, it will never be able to explain certain elements of reality that are outside of physical observation (its realm). When is the scientific community ever going to see the limits of flatland?
 

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Mountain vegan- how well written, I will have to print out your post or something. What a good analogy.<br><br><br><br>
While I support and understand the merits of the scientific method, empiricism, etc., no scientist it truly objective, and there are strong cultural biases. George Page talks about this in his book Inside the Animal mind. That while anthropomorphism is dangerous, so is anti-anthropomorphism. We have a much higher standard of proof of emotions for groups that we don't want to have emotions versus others. I remember reading somewhere that groups of humans have done this to each other, denying common emotions to groups they were oppressing. Pretty convenient, huh?
 

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Thanks for the compliment, Thalia.<br><br><br><br>
And as you bring up, anthropomorphism and anti- anthro.. have both resulted in some of the most horrific cruelty, especially in animal research.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">wow!! who would have thought? pets experience emotion... good thing cows and pigs don't yet...</div>
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i totally agree with you !!<br><br>
plus pigs are smart too .. its sad that people are so stupid sumtimes
 

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I've read that a pig is as intelligent as a 3 year old human. I believe that...anyway primates are smart! My two year old cousin can't do half the stuff I've seen some animals do! And do I eat her? NO.
 

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I read in my local paper today an article about pet hospices for terminally ill pets. One of the dogs was getting acupuncture for pain relief! Why is it that these people are viewing euthenization as cruel, but slaughterhouses are not?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Meadow</i><br><br><b>I once had a Catechism teacher tell me that animals don't have feelings. No wonder I'm not a Catholic anymore.</b></div>
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Yeah, I was taught the same thing. I'm not Catholic anymore either - for many philosophical reasons that would take a thick book or three to go into. What amazes me about the current Catholic leaders (I think current Catholic scholars have their hands tied) is how they still cling so tightly to Aquinas and Descartes, philosophers of a long-past era who, though brilliant, were severely limited in the scientific knowledge which is available today, and who, with little doubt, would have changed their work (if they weren't afraid of going the way of Galileo or Socrates for writing it) based on current knowledge.<br><br><br><br>
Also, I don't believe Descartes had an adequate argument for his automaton theory about animals (the current Catholic theory) even with the knowledge he had at the time - but that's another topic altogther.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Kurmudgeon</i><br><br><b>Do plants feel emotion?</b></div>
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I don't know for sure since I'm not a plant. However, I take the common sense view on issues until the common sense view is shot down by a better argument or more information. Biologists have not found a brain or nervous system in plants like those found in animals. Plants don't react to external stimuli (being cut) like animals do. They do react to light and dark, but biologists have found that reaction to be a physical process rather than something they can't explain. So, based on that, and not knowing much more that would argue the other way, I think plants do not feel emotion (or pain). <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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In the morning I sometimes see plants with drops on their leaves. They have probably been crying over night in fear of when veg*ns come to eat them.
 
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