VeggieBoards banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Besides being vegan...I've also been macrobiotic for many many years and had frequented a macro forum. I posted the question about being vegan within it's message board and never received a reply which I find kind of interesting...<br><br>
It runs along the same lines as asking folks about being vegan whom are quote unquote..caring, kind and compassionate... within religious groups and many others as well.<br><br>
It seems fairly obvious to me that torturing and murdering animals is simply not right..and thats keeping it in very simple terms.<br>
Thing is...I could understand it with people that don't give much thought to evolving or raising their consciousness occasionally...but folks that consider themselves somewhat intelligent you'd think.......<br><br>
I suppose I find the same kind of vibe reading comments in political forums where what seem to be very intelligent people speaking total and utter nonsense to keep their beliefs safe...rather than getting to the real truth.<br><br>
Why is this, and how does one try and get through the wall.<br>
Seems kind of futile trying to talk to folks about stopping the madness of torturing and murdering animals...then eating them. Seems about as futile as trying to change a persons mindset about a political platform no matter how ludicrous it seems...<br><br>
So how does one get through to make a difference, or do we need to just spend our time speaking with people on the fringe in order to get through and not waste our time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,299 Posts
I'm not sure there is an answer to this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,245 Posts
I think we're going to have to wait for the older people to die out, and spend our time trying to reach out to younger people in the hopes of opening their eyes to their cognitive dissonance, before they get too old to change.
 

·
Herbivorous Urchin
Joined
·
9,717 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862597"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think we're going to have to wait for the older people to die out, and spend our time trying to reach out to younger people in the hopes of opening their eyes to their cognitive dissonance, before they get too old to change.</div>
</div>
<br><br>
I'd have to disagree with that based on how many veg*ns I know who changes in their fifties and sixties.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,245 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862598"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'd have to disagree with that based on how many veg*ns I know who changes in their fifties and sixties.</div>
</div>
<br>
I probably know ten to one hundred times that number who haven't, and never will.
 

·
Herbivorous Urchin
Joined
·
9,717 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862599"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I probably know ten to one hundred times that number who haven't, and never will.</div>
</div>
<br>
You know ten to one hundred times the fifteen or twenty people I know who switched older in life? You know a lot of people, and their deep rooted feelings on what they eat.<br><br>
@OP: I just lead by example and leaflet on Saturdays. The best approach, is being as you say. A good intentioned person. Either people will come around, or they won't. The thing about ethics, they're very relative from person to person. People will always amaze you, in good and bad ways.
 

·
Impeach the gangster
Joined
·
10,052 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Andybuildz</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862570"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Besides being vegan...I've also been macrobiotic for many many years</div>
</div>
<br>
Are you saying that, as a vegan, you eat macrobiotically, but abstain from the animal products a macrobiotic diet might otherwise include? My understanding is, a macrobiotic diet is not necessarily vegan. Do you use animal products?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862597"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think we're going to have to wait for the older people to die out, and spend our time trying to reach out to younger people in the hopes of opening their eyes to their cognitive dissonance, before they get too old to change.</div>
</div>
<br>
Old is very relative and imo kind of narrow minded way for you to put things..reason being...I know that just about 100% of my daughter's (20 years old) friends laugh at being vegan and they're not stupid people. Just about all of them are in college. My daughter is in the School Of Visual Arts here in NYC which doesn't happen to have close minded people attending it. She has slews and slews of friends, most of which I know..thanks to Facebook as well as in real time and I express my vegan opinions to them. I also happen to know they all really like me and speak openly to me.<br><br>
IMO..it's not about age..it's about habit.<br>
Let me ask you this...do you believe in god? I don't. I'm not an atheist...I'm agnostic. I find about as many atheists or agnostics as I do vegans...ok maybe more atheists or agnostics than vegans but not by a landslide and I find there to be equal amount young and older..leaning to, more older. Might be that more and more intelligent folks are looking for "proof" and won't just walk like a lemming over the cliff.<br>
My point is, it's not about age..it's about your belief system and being open minded and honest.<br><br>
It was the 60's when I was in my teens and thats when consciousness raising became in vogue and funny enough I find that most people in their teens today could care less about exploring consciousness raising. I think it may have started in the late 80's with the Yuppies and the me, me, me generation. The ONLY grass roots organizations now-a-daze is the Teabaggers which in my opinion is pretty pathetic..unlike how it was going in the 60's with grass root organization sprouting up every where you looked from organizations that gave a **** about what they ate (when I became macrobiotic) to the school systems which was when Free Schools started popping up..and lets not leave out health food stores et al...it all became popular in the 60's.<br>
Seems to me the younger generation...or at least a cpl of decades younger'n me care more about me me me and oh yeh..their ipods and computers rather than getting out into the streets and organizing'n mobilizing.<br><br>
I'm not painting with a broad brush here...not saying everyone...just from my observations from what goes on around me.
 

·
Impeach the gangster
Joined
·
10,052 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862597"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think we're going to have to wait for the older people to die out, and spend our time trying to reach out to younger people in the hopes of opening their eyes to their cognitive dissonance, before they get too old to change.</div>
</div>
<br>
Don't confuse age with wisdom. The majority of young people are blithering idiots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Capstan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862632"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Are you saying that, as a vegan, you eat macrobiotically, but abstain from the animal products a macrobiotic diet might otherwise include? My understanding is, a macrobiotic diet is not necessarily vegan. Do you use animal products?</div>
</div>
<br>
I use NOTHING that contains the disruption to the animal kingdom!<br>
Macrobiotics for the most part is meat free but is open to just about all people. It's more about how you balance your food and your life. It doesn't base things on vegan. the really good thing about macrobiotics is it lets anyone in. It sort of reminds me of turning to be being vegetarian. the good thing about vegetarian is that a real lot of times that leads to becoming vegan. One thing leads to another. This is the reason I address being vegan to the macrobiotic crowd.<br>
This is a very good example of how to try and change people's minds concerning meat. Start with people that are already thinking along those lines or as I said in my first post..."people on the fringe".<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet</a><br><i><b>Macrobiotics vs. vegetarianism</b><br><br>
A macrobiotic diet includes many of the same foods as vegetarian diets, but in macrobiotics some types of fish and other animal foods are included according to individual needs. The two dietary styles share enough similarities that a vegetarian and even vegan version of macrobiotics is not uncommon.<br><br>
Macrobiotics is based on traditional ways of eating. While there are no completely vegan cultures among them, the longest-lived cultures around the world consume between 70% and 99% whole plant foods, according to John Robbins, a well-known vegan advocate and animal rights activist, in Healthy at 100. The American Dietetic Association approves of carefully planned vegan diets. In the words of the Association, "Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.... It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."[11] However, as part of their dietary guidelines, the association did not opine against meat consumption, recommending that healthy adults eat lean meat, poultry, fish or beans each day, as lean meat has many essential nutrients without excess fat or cholesterol.[12]<br><br>
On the other hand, according to the USDA's discussion of its current food pyramid, "Dry beans and peas are part of this [meat and beans] group as well as the vegetable group. ... Fish, nuts, and seeds contain healthy oils, so choose these foods frequently instead of meat or poultry."[13] Under the heading "Why is it important to include fish, nuts, and seeds?" they say, "Many people do not make varied choices from this food group, selecting meat or poultry everyday as their main dishes."[14</i>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Concerning macrobiotics: I find it to have some of the most significant aspects of living well than I do with any other diet/lifestyle especially that you can customize it to fit your needs. It leaves no one out. I also find some of what <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Ohsawa" target="_blank">George Osawha</a> said kind of antiquated at this point but for the most part..right on.<br>
I think as time moves forward we need to recognize that some of what we read or listen to or watch from years back needs customizing in this moment of time. It'd be really dumb to count out certain things because we find "some" of whats expressed not what we believe today.<br><br>
If any of you never looked into macrobiotics you really should! I've been Macrobiotic since the early 70's
 

·
Herbivorous Urchin
Joined
·
9,717 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Capstan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862673"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Don't confuse age with wisdom. The majority of young people are blithering idiots.</div>
</div>
<br>
Don't confuse Age with Immaturity. The majority of young people are NOT blithering idiots, and that's a very rude stance to take, as bad as saying the majority of older people will never change.
 

·
Impeach the gangster
Joined
·
10,052 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Andybuildz</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862682"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I use NOTHING that contains the disruption to the animal kingdom!<br>
Macrobiotics for the most part is meat free but is open to just about all people. It's more about how you balance your food and your life. It doesn't base things on vegan. the really good thing about macrobiotics is it lets anyone in. It sort of reminds me of turning to be being vegetarian. the good thing about vegetarian is that a real lot of times that leads to becoming vegan. One thing leads to another. This is the reason I address being vegan to the macrobiotic crowd.<br>
This is a very good example of how to try and change people's minds concerning meat. Start with people that are already thinking along those lines or as I said in my first post..."people on the fringe".<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrobiotic_diet</a><br><i><b>Macrobiotics vs. vegetarianism</b><br><br>
A macrobiotic diet includes many of the same foods as vegetarian diets, but in macrobiotics some types of fish and other animal foods are included according to individual needs. The two dietary styles share enough similarities that a vegetarian and even vegan version of macrobiotics is not uncommon.<br><br>
Macrobiotics is based on traditional ways of eating. While there are no completely vegan cultures among them, the longest-lived cultures around the world consume between 70% and 99% whole plant foods, according to John Robbins, a well-known vegan advocate and animal rights activist, in Healthy at 100. The American Dietetic Association approves of carefully planned vegan diets. In the words of the Association, "Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.... It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."[11] However, as part of their dietary guidelines, the association did not opine against meat consumption, recommending that healthy adults eat lean meat, poultry, fish or beans each day, as lean meat has many essential nutrients without excess fat or cholesterol.[12]<br><br>
On the other hand, according to the USDA's discussion of its current food pyramid, "Dry beans and peas are part of this [meat and beans] group as well as the vegetable group. ... Fish, nuts, and seeds contain healthy oils, so choose these foods frequently instead of meat or poultry."[13] Under the heading "Why is it important to include fish, nuts, and seeds?" they say, "Many people do not make varied choices from this food group, selecting meat or poultry everyday as their main dishes."[14</i></div>
</div>
<br>
To answer your many questions, my overall impression is, you come across sort of like the devout man who knocks on strangers' doors in the hope you can convert them to what you believe is right. My best advice is, in a nutshell, let them come to you.<br><br>
In my experience, the best way to influence people is, through example. With the exception of these boards, where I share my veganism in common with many of its members, I don't go out of my way to advertise my personal diet. IF it comes up, and IF someone is curious about it, then I tell it to them the way I see it. I've met many people who are curious, open-minded and even admiring of what I'm doing. So, I let them be my target. But I let them come to me.<br><br>
Like you, I believe animal husbandry- as it's politely called- is wrong. But I think the world can change. But I also think, as it changes, it will be, more or less, one person at a time. This is where our influence counts.
 

·
Impeach the gangster
Joined
·
10,052 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>River</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862724"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Don't confuse Age with Immaturity. The majority of young people are NOT blithering idiots, and that's a very rude stance to take, as bad as saying the majority of older people will never change.</div>
</div>
<br>
You're right of course. It's just that, when someone makes such a blatantly bigoted, vicious remark as that, it galls my kibe. Please accept my apologies. I'll be content to dance on their grave!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Capstan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862767"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To answer your many questions, my overall impression is, you come across sort of like the devout man who knocks on strangers' doors in the hope you can convert them to what you believe is right. My best advice is, in a nutshell, let them come to you.<br><br>
In my experience, the best way to influence people is, through example. With the exception of these boards, where I share my veganism in common with many of its members, I don't go out of my way to advertise my personal diet. IF it comes up, and IF someone is curious about it, then I tell it to them the way I see it. I've met many people who are curious, open-minded and even admiring of what I'm doing. So, I let them be my target. But I let them come to me.<br><br>
Like you, I believe animal husbandry- as it's politely called- is wrong. But I think the world can change. But I also think, as it changes, it will be, more or less, one person at a time. This is where our influence counts.</div>
</div>
<br>
I agree to a degree....the degree, or place... where I step out onto someones door step and knock on their door as you put it is from a place from my concern for the animal kingdom. My feeling is if I can save one animals life it was worth a knock on someones door. People see this from different degrees. Some fanatically where they make it their upmost life's mission to those like me that do go out of my way to try and enlighten people..to those that just practice being vegan like you do..all of which is fine. Different stroke and all of that. For me...I try and not come off over bearing or obnoxious but it is all relative I reckon. I do try however to keep it simple by, enlightening , amusing and being informative. I "think" I know where to draw the line so as not to have people put me on ignore. There is that line that one can cross. I recognize that. I also try and interject humor in most of what I do so as not to lose my audience so to speak.<br>
There's those like brother Walter <a href="http://supportwalter.org/" target="_blank">http://supportwalter.org/</a> who I support. He's pretty extreme but I get where he's coming from. He's pretty much the extreme end of the spectrum. Walter is NOT going to convert one single soul imho but I don't think thats Walter's mission. I personally wouldn't go to the lengths Walter does..but like I said...I get his passion. Pretty extreme.<br><br>
For me...I'll take to the streets in a more friendly heart felt way.<br><br>
I think I know some places I can help...one of which is in the macrobiotic world I live in. those people are "fringers" as I put it. They know what it's like to think out of the box concerning foods and lifestyles but maybe they just need a little nudge. I think there's quite a few places like that where you can turn people onto "the next step".<br>
I reckon thats the question I'm asking in this thread..ways and places...if you want to be apart of that.<br>
There is a season....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here's one of the people I really really really love. If you've never seen Gary's video..you should..and pass it on to those that haven't... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4</a> If you're interested you can go onto Gary's Facebook page and website as well. It's phenomenal IMO <a href="http://www.adaptt.org/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.adaptt.org/index.html</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,097 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862597"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think we're going to have to wait for the older people to die out, and spend our time trying to reach out to younger people in the hopes of opening their eyes to their cognitive dissonance, before they get too old to change.</div>
</div>
<br><br>
This is probably the best starting point over all.<br><br>
I was reading an article the other day about animal advocacy where the author roughly said something like "Of course we won't convince every single person alive today to stop eating animals. We don't have to."<br><br>
What he's getting at is that by consistently focusing on the audience most receptive to change and in the position to make the biggest impact on ethical world-building (young people, high school and college age) we can slowly manipulate the future, gene rationally. Maybe only 20% or so of today's total population would even consider going vegan at best, if every single one of them were reached with a convincing argument. But the kids being born tomorrow or ten years from now? Maybe 30% to 40%, and so forth, until we reach a tipping point.<br><br><br>
(I think up to 10 or 20% of the world's population today WOULD give up meat IF they were reached in an effective way. Most people have no idea whatsoever where their meat comes from)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Josh James xVx</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2862967"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This is probably the best starting point over all.<br><br>
I was reading an article the other day about animal advocacy where the author roughly said something like "Of course we won't convince every single person alive today to stop eating animals. We don't have to."<br><br>
What he's getting at is that by consistently focusing on the audience most receptive to change and in the position to make the biggest impact on ethical world-building (young people, high school and college age) we can slowly manipulate the future, gene rationally. Maybe only 20% or so of today's total population would even consider going vegan at best, if every single one of them were reached with a convincing argument. But the kids being born tomorrow or ten years from now? Maybe 30% to 40%, and so forth, until we reach a tipping point.<br>
Edit: One thing I might beleive is kids today possibly going vegetarian but vegan? I doubt it. Kids in todays society seem to me to be just like how people were in the 80's..me me me and not about grass roots causes other than the Teabaggers and you know they're not going vegan en masses..haha. Todays crowd is about cheering causes on from the comfort of their computers and iPhones not taking to the streets like in the 60's. Even the music today sucks for the most part. Sorry..just one opinion.<br><br><br>
(I think up to 10 or 20% of the world's population today WOULD give up meat IF they were reached in an effective way. Most people have no idea whatsoever where their meat comes from)</div>
</div>
<br>
How about a link? Seems like a ridiculous statement if it's based on nothing more than opinion with zero proof. How about even a survey..no? Again..it's just one persons opinion and a ridiculous one. From all the slews and slews of kids I talk to ..and thats a LOT...I see few going vegan..or even wanting to hear about it. Writing an article thats based on opinion is worthless in my book. I need proof or even a well done survey. I'd love it to be true but then again I'd love to find a Genie in a bottle.<br>
Edit: From what I'm observing on a whole is kids today as well as older folk is that they spend their time for the most part in front of their computers or on their iPhones...instead of taking to the streets to mobilize except for a select few. I see younger folks acting like people did coming of age in the 80's..it's all about me me me instead of "us". The only grass roots organizations are the Teabaggers whom do more to hurt than to help..imho. At best I see "some" younger people going vegetarian because again..it's about me me me...not about the less fortunate. It's about their health which is fine but not specifically about the animal kingdom...me me me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I just asked my friend Gary Yourofsky ( <a href="http://www.adaptt.org/index.htmlabout" target="_blank">http://www.adaptt.org/index.htmlabout</a> ) about age and turning vegan. If ANYONE should know he does being he travels to school after school day after day giving his lectures to entire classrooms of kids.<br>
Garys reply was, " <i><b>i don't know what makes someone understand BUT I KNOW what doesn't (age, race, political party, religion, location/area, etc.)</b></i>".<br>
If you'd like to follow Gary on his Facebook page..here ya go.. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002029192043" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002029192043</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,245 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Andybuildz</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2863018"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
How about a link? Seems like a ridiculous statement if it's based on nothing more than opinion with zero proof. How about even a survey..no? Again..it's just one persons opinion and a ridiculous one.</div>
</div>
<br>
The people who want surveys and links are usually the ones who won't be convinced when they see them anyway. It's not opinion either, it's observation. If you were really interested, you could do your own survey right here at VB. Make a poll asking people at what age they went veg, or spend a month or two observing the numbers of new members in the ages from 14 to 25 vs. the number of new members in the ages of 50+ who join here and tell us they just went veg. Of course, that will be skewed in favor of younger people, since older people are also not as likely to start participating in online forums if it hasn't been an already established habit. But that that serves as another indication that the more time one spends in a habitual way of life the less likely one is to see any compelling reason to change. An observation of human nature that isn't as age dependent as it is time dependent, but still pretty accurate for the majority of people. Variations on this are not impossible. Nor are they the norm.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top