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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
From her interview with US Magazine:<br><br><i>Even a proud vegan like Alicia Silverstone gives in to temptation once in a while.<br><br>
The actress and author of The Kind Diet confessed that sometimes she slips up -- and dairy is her downfall.<br><br>
"If I was at a party and there was a tray of cheese sitting there and I had had drinks, then I might have a bite," Silverstone confessed to UsMagazine.com at an EcoTools event in NYC on Wednesday.<br><br>
Silverstone doesn't let her momentary lapse get to her, though. "It's human," she said. "It's a really good reminder that sometimes you need to have what you remember is this good thing. Because then you have it, and you're like, 'Actually that wasn't better than the recipes in my book,'" Silverstone told Us.<br><br>
"Being flexible that way makes more people comfortable," she said. "If I'm rigid about it and I'm perfect, then no one is going to be able to be like me because I'll be this icey, rigid thing."<br><br>
Silverstone credits the vegan diet with better health. "I haven't been to a doctor in 13 years," she told Us. "I don't have to worry about calories, I don't have to worry about how I look because I know that what I do makes me look my best."</i><br><br>
I mean, who doesn't enjoy the occasional murderous rampage after a couple of drinks? It's a good thing. It's a good reminder of why you shouldn't murder. Besides, if you're unwilling to participate, you might appear to be too rigid or make others feel uncomfortable. Basically what I'm saying is that it's far too difficult of a commitment to simply not murder. Sometimes you need to have what you remember is this good thing.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>"If I'm rigid about it and I'm perfect, then no one is going to be able to be like me because I'll be this icey, rigid thing."</i></div>
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Uh. I don't eat cheese when I get drunk at parties, and I've never heard anyone describe me as an "icey, rigid thing." Just...don't eat the cheese, Alicia. If you don't make a fuss about it nobody will even notice.<br><br>
What a disappointment.
 

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Not exactly the best role model for veganism, but arguably still better than the many vegans who <i>are</i> icy and hostile about it.<br><br>
Really it's better she does this than just be vegetarian all the time. We're all aware (or should be) that unless you live in total isolation it's impossible to live a perfect life with regards to harming animals, and yes it really isn't hard to continue being vegan at a party. She's still doing good on the whole, though, a lot better than most, and really although I think the excuse is cheap and a little aggravating, it's hard to be too mad at her. Judge not lest ye be judged, and all that.
 

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Yeese. People are ALL over the sweetness and love and "it's okay, sweetiepiedarling!" fairydust crap when someone here falls off the wagon*. But heaven ****ing forbid someone famous do it. Then it's cool to say they're going on murderous rampages.<br><br>
VB aches for balance, man.<br><br>
*Or slips while drinking. Or admits their own faults. Or wants nto be vegan but can't seem to give up cheese. Etc. Etc. Etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mgoat</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746403"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Not exactly the best role model for veganism, but arguably still better than the many vegans who <i>are</i> icy and hostile about it.<br><br>
Really it's better she does this than just be vegetarian all the time. We're all aware (or should be) that unless you live in total isolation it's impossible to live a perfect life with regards to harming animals, and yes it really isn't hard to continue being vegan at a party. She's still doing good on the whole, though, a lot better than most, and really although I think the excuse is cheap and a little aggravating, it's hard to be too mad at her. Judge not lest ye be judged, and all that.</div>
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I'm not trying to discredit or deny her past efforts in promoting veganism. No one is perfect in that regard, but she's willingly choosing to eat cheese for unnecessary reasons. She's in a position where she's able to influence a lot of people, and it's disappointing to see someone acting as an advocate for veganism suggest it's okay to eat cheese on occasion (or any other non-vegan food). She's giving off the impression that a vegan lifestyle would otherwise be too difficult to maintain. Vegans don't willingly eat cheese, and they shouldn't be accused of being rigid or icey in refusing to do so. Not only is this bad reasoning, but she's lending hand to omnivores who offer you a bite of their hamburger and then accuse you of being too rigid in your refusal.
 

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It may be human to give in to temptation, but I hate it when celebrities do it and then talk about it, because it just convinces the omnis further that ALL veg*ans cheat and give in to temptation and all they have to do is wave some cheese snacks or a chicken leg in front of us and we'll give in. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Amy SF</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746415"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It may be human to give in to temptation, but I hate it when celebrities do it and then talk about it, because it just convinces the omnis further that ALL veg*ans cheat and give in to temptation and all they have to do is wave some cheese snacks or a chicken leg in front of us and we'll give in. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:"></div>
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It seems half the time people complain about celebrities upholding images of unrealistic perfection, but when they admit to being imperfect, people "hate" it? You'd rather they lie and pretend to be perfect if/when they screw up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Semicharmed</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746412"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yeese. People are ALL over the sweetness and love and "it's okay, sweetiepiedarling!" fairydust crap when someone here falls off the wagon. BUt heaven ****ing forbid someone famous do it. Then it's cool to say they're going on murderous rampages.<br><br>
VB aches for balance, man.</div>
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It's applying the same line of reasoning to another unethical situation. I didn't mean to suggest it's only wrong when it's someone famous. It's problematic reasoning regardless.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Semicharmed</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746422"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It seems half the time people complain about celebrities upholding images of unrealistic perfection, but when they admit to being imperfect, people "hate" it? You'd rather they lie and pretend to be perfect if/when they screw up?</div>
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Deciding not to "cheat" or willfully eat dairy products is hardly an unrealistic expectation of perfection from her or from anyone else.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>anonanimal</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746437"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Deciding not to "cheat" or willfully eat dairy products is hardly an unrealistic expectation of perfection from her or from anyone else.</div>
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According to the rules of this very forum, it's basically an unrealistic expectation even for vegetarians. <b>*shrug*</b><br><br>
She's admitting that once in a while, if she's had a few drinks, she might slip. She's also saying it only serves to remind her she is NOT missing anything by eating vegan food. AND she's saying rigid perfection is daunting, so she hopes her imperfections at least make the subject of veganism more approachable.<br><br>
Am I happy she's eating cheese? Nope. Do I feel like demonizing her? Nope, and I think it's sad that people do. It's attacks like this that make people think vegans are militant and hateful. Between the two (Alicia's admitting her imperfections, and the reactions to her here), I think it's pretty obvious which line of thinking would encourage people to try animal product free living, and which would heighten dislike for it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Semicharmed</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746443"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
She's admitting that once in a while, if she's had a few drinks, she might slip.</div>
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I was drunk a couple of years ago and I had a few bites of a non-vegan garlic bread. (I have no idea why I did it, it was the end bit that my husband didn't eat that I was about to throw into the bin which makes it all the more gross.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">) Saying that I think if I was having slip ups like that regularly then I would wonder if I was really serious about being vegan.<br><br>
I like Alicia Silverstone though as she is a good vegan role model I think. (She could be horrible in real life as I don't actually know her obviously.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">)
 

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She admits to having a bite of cheese and then feeling bad for it. Not a cheeseburger. She said that the cheese was not as good as she thought it would be. Even on this forum there are threads about "slipping up" one of the most common downfalls usually being cheese. I don't think that this is such a rare occurrence. Being "flexible" in this sense seems to me that she is flexible enough to admit her faults.<br><br>
Also, she had a "few drinks"...well...most alcohol is NOT vegan...and a lot of vegans drink non-vegan alcohol without even realizing it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Semicharmed</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746443"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
According to the rules of this very forum, it's basically an unrealistic expectation even for vegetarians. <b>*shrug*</b><br><br>
She's admitting that once in a while, if she's had a few drinks, she might slip. She's also saying it only serves to remind her she is NOT missing anything by eating vegan food. AND she's saying rigid perfection is daunting, so she hopes her imperfections at least make the subject of veganism more approachable.<br><br>
Am I happy she's eating cheese? Nope. Do I feel like demonizing her? Nope, and I think it's sad that people do. It's attacks like this that make people think vegans are militant and hateful. Between the two (Alicia's admitting her imperfections, and the reactions to her here), I think it's pretty obvious which line of thinking would encourage people to try animal product free living, and which would heighten dislike for it.</div>
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There's a huge gap between perfection and WILLINGLY eating dairy (which you have stated publicly you are ethically opposed to) and then publicly justifying it on alcohol and being "flexible" to be more likeable.<br><br>
Falling off the wagon is ok. Falling off the wagon when you are actively promoting veganism is ok. Falling off the wagon and justifying it publicly with BS arguments is not ok. I don't care who you are.
 

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I think perhaps I'm interpreting her remarks differently than other people.<br><br>
She seemed, to me, to be saying being flexible with yourself when you have a lapse is a good thing. Because, sure, even if there are day-1 perfect vegans with no willful lapses (and so far, I'm one of them. I've made unintentional errors, but never intentional or semi-intentional or "whoops, I was drunk!" ones. I never "transitioned" to veganism either. But I don't think everyone should or could be that way), that's not reality for MANY people. So I feel she's saying for all the people who find they do not have infallible willpower, don't be hateful toward yourself, be flexible and forgiving with yourself. Make the best of it. Realize that perhaps those cravings and those lapses are leading you only to a food that isn't that great after all. Move on. Don't give up, don't say "Ah, screw it, I may as well have more." Learn from that single bite, don't let it fester with hatred.<br><br>
I understand the disappointment. I understand thinking it's unethical to willfully consume something that promotes suffering. I just don't understand the vitriol.
 

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I make mistakes and slip up too every once in a blue moon. Most people aren't perfect vegans. I had some cream cheese today and I'm not proud of it. I don't think its okay because its not but I'm not always so strong all the time. I do extremely well usually but other times I make mistakes. Plus I wear Contacts which I'm sure were tested on animals in experimental stages. It sucks but I used to break my glasses all the time so here I am. So I can't judge a celebrity (who is a human being) for making mistakes. However I don't think You should be making allowances for cheating like saying its okay to cheat at parties or something because some might say that's not just messing up but saying g its okay to eat dairy at certain times...which. isn't vegan...but anyway I love her.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Amy SF</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746415"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It may be human to give in to temptation, but I hate it when celebrities do it and then talk about it, because it just convinces the omnis further that ALL veg*ans cheat</div>
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Yes, yes. They should just keep it to themselves. I'm still recovering from Christian Bale's steak eating rampage. Don't know what to think of that. It makes us all look bad. Simply being consistent doesn't make us ice cubes.<br><br>
And what's ironic is that Silverstone has always seemed to me (in interviews) to be very stuckup. I slightly resented her representing us, and then to go and do something like this!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Semicharmed</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746467"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I think perhaps I'm interpreting her remarks differently than other people.<br><br>
She seemed, to me, to be saying being flexible with yourself when you have a lapse is a good thing. Because, sure, even if there are day-1 perfect vegans with no willful lapses (and so far, I'm one of them. I've made unintentional errors, but never intentional or semi-intentional or "whoops, I was drunk!" ones. I never "transitioned" to veganism either. But I don't think everyone should or could be that way), that's not reality for MANY people. So I feel she's saying for all the people who find they do not have infallible willpower, don't be hateful toward yourself, be flexible and forgiving with yourself. Make the best of it. Realize that perhaps those cravings and those lapses are leading you only to a food that isn't that great after all. Move on. Don't give up, don't say "Ah, screw it, I may as well have more." Learn from that single bite, don't let it fester with hatred.<br><br>
I understand the disappointment. I understand thinking it's unethical to willfully consume something that promotes suffering. I just don't understand the vitriol.</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:"> I think we're interpreting her comments differently. When I read the article, it seemed to me that she was saying it's perfectly okay to be vegan and still occasionally eat cheese or other non-vegan food. Also, it seemed to be a slight at those who oppose in accusing them of appearing to be too rigid or icey. The message you've conveyed is much more reasonable and if that was her message, then it's a different issue. I should add that not consuming dairy is hardly an unrealistic expectation of perfection from her or from anyone else *claiming to be vegan. I agree that transitioning to veganism might undoubtably involve such struggles.<br><br>
Also, I don't know very much about Alicia Silverstone as a person or a celebrity. I don't have a lot of interest in celebrities in the first place (regardless of whether or not they claim to be vegan), but it's something that I read on a vegan website and I didn't agree with her line of reasoning (assuming my interpretation at the time). My reaction wasn't based on her as a person, I meant to respond to the claim that you can be a flexible vegan who occasionally eats cheese so other people feel more comfortable around you (and furthermore, if you're unwilling to do so, you're being too rigid).
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>anonanimal</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746516"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:"> I think we're interpreting her comments differently. When I read the article, it seemed to me that she was saying it's perfectly okay to be vegan and still occasionally eat cheese or other non-vegan food.</div>
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Ah, then yes, we were seeing it differently. If she had said something like, "You know, once a month I just really like to have some cheesecake, so I do! Vegans, be flexible!" THEN, yes, I would understand <b>some</b> of the anger about her claiming to be vegan. I read it as her saying she occasionally caves to cravings when her judgment is impaired and her inhibitions lowered. I have done the same thing - not over food, but over other things. I've said things I would not otherwise say, done things I would not otherwise do, and I can imagine many people would eat things they would not otherwise have eaten. Like Floor Burgers. (Sorry, I'll take any excuse to relive Floor Burgergate.) Anyway, I didn't see her saying it's RIGHT to do so, but that she <i>has</i> done so and she chooses to be flexible with herself in her moments of weakness, instead of, I dunno, berating herself, dropping the vegan mantle altogether and declaring to the world that she is no longer vegan. I think she's right in that if she did that (or if other vegans did that) any time they made an error or caved to a craving, it would appear to omnivores even more impossible to be vegan than it already does.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>anonanimal</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746516"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I should add that not consuming dairy is hardly an unrealistic expectation of perfection from her or from anyone else *claiming to be vegan. I agree that transitioning to veganism might undoubtably involve such struggles.</div>
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I guess... I think perfection with cravings is not realistic. If someone admits to caving to a craving, admits it as a LAPSE, not as something she's proud of, but as something she's tried to make the best out of and looks for the silver lining... I don't think that person or her actions should be attacked.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>anonanimal</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746516"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My reaction wasn't based on her as a person, I meant to respond to the claim that you can be a flexible vegan who occasionally eats cheese so other people feel more comfortable around you (and furthermore, if you're unwilling to do so, you're being too rigid).</div>
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If she was indeed claiming you can and should occasionally eat cheese in order to make people feel comfortable, sure, that's ridiculous. I dearly hope she was not implying that. I didn't think she was. I HOPE she's not!
 

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In her book she also states that if she is out with friends eating sushi, and one of them happens to leave some on the plate she will gobble it up before the waiter takes it away. So, it seems like she does have a bit of pre-meditated flexibility factored into her lifestyle. I was puzzled when I read that part of the book - seemed a bit inconsistent with everything that had gone before.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ermintrude</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2746606"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
In her book she also states that if she is out with friends eating sushi, and one of them happens to leave some on the plate she will gobble it up before the waiter takes it away. So, it seems like she does have a bit of pre-meditated flexibility factored into her lifestyle. I was puzzled when I read that part of the book - seemed a bit inconsistent with everything that had gone before.</div>
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Did she say fish sushi?
 

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I have a vegetarian friend who says The Kind Diet makes sense to her and makes her want to be vegan. It's weird because I've never been super strict around her (like I don't care if my vegan things are cooked on the same BBQ grill as her boyfriends meat) but somehow she feels like all vegans are all uptight and rigid and strict. So I understand Alicia's intent to reach out to people who think it's all or nothing and get them to take small steps towards being vegan.<br><br>
However, I think it's really important to be clear about a few things:<br>
- vegan = no animal products<br>
- "a little cheese every now and then" does not mean everyday or once a week, it means rarely.<br>
- avoiding animal products like cheese does not make you icey and rigid, it makes you vegan<br>
- everyone has a different definition of what's "consistent" and not hypocritical. (case in point: debates about PETA's "accidentally vegan" list)<br>
- everyone has a different definition of what's too hard or pointless (to some people, expecting them to avoid all cheese all the time is too hard, for others, figuring out what sugar is vegan and what sugar isn't is pointless)
 
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