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So, let's say a generational space ship is traveling to a colony of one of the planets surrounding a star 20 light years away. The ship is traveling at subliminal but relativistic speeds. It takes them 24 years, but on board only 3 months. Babies are born and the shipboard government bureaucracy issues them birth certificates. But how would you calculate the baby's birth? From the temporal sequencing as experienced on board or from the perspective of the world you left behind?<br><br>
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I would think the perspective of the starship would not be all that relevant to others in their civilisation. I would think a civilisation capable of interstellar travel at relativistic speeds would need to use some kind of common reference point. On Star Trek they seem to be using such a system when they talk about "star date" such and such.
 

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More importantly, would the babies be native citizens of the new world they were traveling to, or would some people insist that their birth certificate isn't legit, and they were actually born somewhere here on Earth, perhaps in Africa?<br><br>
--Fromper<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/juggle.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":juggle:">
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Indian Summer</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2875250"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I would think the perspective of the starship would not be all that relevant to others in their civilisation. I would think a civilisation capable of interstellar travel at relativistic speeds would need to use some kind of common reference point. On Star Trek they seem to be using such a system when they talk about "star date" such and such.</div>
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Star Trek, however, uses a transportation system (warp drive) that disregards the relativistic effects of subliminal but relativistic space travel. So a interstellar civilization could have a standard reference point within space, but when you are dealing with time warp and dilation there is no common reference point. So lets say a pregnant astronaut boarded a ship for a star system 20 lys away. They left in 2011. The baby was born that same year according to the ship board time. The ship arrives 24 years later, but on board the trip only took 4 months. The ship created a Krasnikov tube behind them and takes the tube back. From their perspective in 4 months they are back with a new baby on board. But from earth's perspective they arrive right after they left, because Krasnikov's tubes are time machines. So the baby can actually come back to a time before she was born. Or if we take time travel out of the equation and leave it up to proven relativistic effects; they ship would arrive home 40 years later. So do we call a one year old 40 years old? Or do we use some other system to measure her age?<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">More importantly, would the babies be native citizens of the new world they were traveling to, or would some people insist that their birth certificate isn't legit, and they were actually born somewhere here on Earth, perhaps in Africa?<br><br>
--Fromper</div>
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The birthers of the future, eh? You're not a native of the USA, you're space born!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Rotoshave</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2875299"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Star Trek, however, uses a transportation system (warp drive) that disregards the relativistic effects of subliminal but relativistic space travel. So a interstellar civilization could have a standard reference point within space, but when you are dealing with time warp and dilation there is no common reference point. So lets say a pregnant astronaut boarded a ship for a star system 20 lys away. They left in 2011. The baby was born that same year according to the ship board time. The ship arrives 24 years later, but on board the trip only took 4 months. The ship created a Krasnikov tube behind them and takes the tube back. From their perspective in 4 months they are back with a new baby on board. But from earth's perspective they arrive right after they left, because Krasnikov's tubes are time machines. So the baby can actually come back to a time before she was born. Or if we take time travel out of the equation and leave it up to proven relativistic effects; they ship would arrive home 40 years later. So do we call a one year old 40 years old? Or do we use some other system to measure her age?</div>
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I'm not that well versed in Star Trek terminology that I've heard of Krasnikov tubes and whatnot. And time travel in the sense of travelling backwards in time is not possible, it can't be done! As for the baby, it would be born 40 years ago. Maybe people in the age of relativistic effects would need to operate with two clocks: One for common time undefiled by relativistic effects and one personal clock that travels with the person wherever they're going. So a person would have two ages: One measured in common time, and one measured in personal time.
 

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well, i must confess i am not one to form a coherent thought at 3am.<br>
indian summer is right on the money. somewhere i have an original paper written by my brilliant gr and cosmology professor. i'll try to find it at some point. in the mean time i'll add that it has to reference frames, acceleration, clocks running at different speeds, and all kinds of counter intuitive stuff that i cannot begin to try arguing about at this time.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Earthling</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2875761"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
If it's three months on board, how would babies be born? Wouldn't you need 9 months?</div>
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If they're going to the new planet to colonize and start a new civilization, then it might make sense to bring women who are already pregnant and what to be colonists, so they can start birthing the next generation of their colony right away.<br><br>
--Fromper<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/juggle.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":juggle:">
 

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why particularly would it matter? if you could do this sort of travel, assigning birth certificate dates would be low on the totem pole of issues.
 
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