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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,<br><br><br><br>
Ive been away from the forums for a bit. The last time I was here, I was thinking about returning to meat (which seemed to piss off some folks), but I never did. In fact, Im actually going vegan.<br><br><br><br>
Ive just started, so Im still learning the ropes, but I do have a lot of questions. The biggest one has to do with protein and how complete one source is over another.<br><br><br><br>
I think the thing I hear most from meat-eaters is that animal protein is more "complete" that plant protein. Is there any truth to this?<br><br><br><br>
Any help would be appreciated. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Thanks
 

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There is truth to that - animal proteins and eggs contain dense and varied complete proteins. However, so is does soy. But since you probably don't want to live on soy alone, check into the protein content of almost any plant. Some have more than others, some more of one type than others, etc. Here's some info:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm</a><br><br><br><br>
Complete protein refers to the 9 amino acids the body needs but cannot synthesize, and must therefore obtain from an external source.<br><br><br><br>
Bottom line, the whole 'you must eat meat or you'll die' argument is rubbish, but a healthy veg* diet is a valid concern.
 

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<a href="http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein" target="_blank">http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein</a><br><br><br><br>
Protein Recommendations for Young Vegans<br><br>
Age (yrs) Females(grams/day) Males (grams/day)<br><br>
1 - 2 18-19 18-19<br><br>
2 - 3 18-21 18-21<br><br>
4 - 6 26-28 26-28<br><br>
7 - 10 31-34 31-34<br><br>
11 - 14 51-55 50-54<br><br>
15 - 18 50-55 66-73<br><br><br><br>
The plant foods highest in protein are legumes (beans, peanuts, soyfoods such as tofu) and nuts, but grains and vegetables also contribute significant amounts.<br><br><br><br>
Protein Content of Common Vegan Foods Serving Protein (g)<br><br>
Naturade soy protein powder 1/3 Cup 23 g<br><br>
Naturade soy-free protein powder 1/3 Cup 22 g<br><br>
Seitan 3 oz 22.5<br><br>
Tofu 1/2 Cup 10 - 20<br><br>
Veggie dog/burger 1 6 - 18<br><br>
Tempeh* 3 oz 15.5<br><br>
Soybeans* 1/2 Cup 14.3<br><br>
Texturized soy protein 1/2 Cup 11<br><br>
Soymilk 1 Cup 5 - 10<br><br>
Lentils* 1/2 Cup 8.9<br><br>
Peanut butter 2 Tablespoons 8<br><br>
Chickpeas* 1/2 Cup 7.5<br><br>
Refried beans* 1/2 Cup 6.9<br><br>
Sunflower seeds 1/4 Cup 6.2<br><br>
Oatmeal* 1 Cup, instant 5.9<br><br>
Brown rice* 1 Cup 5<br><br>
Broccoli* 1 Cup chopped 4.6<br><br>
Potato, baked 1 medium 4.5<br><br>
Walnuts 1/2 oz (7 halves) 4.3<br><br>
White rice* 1 Cup 4.1<br><br>
Almonds 1/2 oz (12 kernels) 3<br><br>
Kale* 1 Cup chopped 2.5<br><br>
Taco shell 1 medium 1<br><br>
Carrot 1 med 0.6<br><br>
*Cooked
 

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You really don't have to worry about getting a "complete protein" because your body can store amino acids. In fact, the Frances Lappe Moore, who came out with the whole idea of complete proteins, admitted that it wasn't really true. As long as you get a good variety of foods, you should be fine on protein. The average American consumes about 100 grams of protein a day, but actually this is high. Healthy populations consume somewhere between 20 and 42 grams of protein per day, which is very easily done on a vegan diet. Beans, vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds and sprouts, are all great sources of protein.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Im currently reading <i>The China Study</i>, so I hope, by the end of the book, Ill have much more knowledge of the protein situation.<br><br><br><br>
Thanks for your responses! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rockon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rockon:">
 

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Hey Robot, rawgirl is telling it right. Protein is over rated and probably based on the old school thought of the meat eating crowd. Best protein I know of is rice and beans (eat brown rice please). Too much protein is bad health.
 

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I'm from the school of "don't worry about it so much," but I'm also in favor of making sure you're consuming adequate protein for your daily needs, which can be a little harder if you're active and maintaining a reasonable amount of muscle mass. There have been days when I was a little shy of my daily requirements, such as they are, but it's no biggie. I make up for it on other days, try not to get too much of my protein from any one source (like soy), and generally I seem to get plenty and with enough variety to ensure I'm getting all the essential amino acids.<br><br><br><br>
I'm also a fan of quinoa, one of your fabled complete proteins...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
I'm also a fan of quinoa, one of your fabled complete proteins...</div>
</div>
<br>
That's a new one for me. Can I find quinoa in my local grocery store?<br><br><br><br>
Thanks again guys!
 

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Quinoa rocks. I bought mine at Trader Joes. I also saw it in a health food store. I'm not sure about regular grocery stores, but it seems like they ought to be able to get it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>zandria72</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Quinoa rocks.</div>
</div>
<br>
Exactly! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/guitarist.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":guitar:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"><br><br>
I like the stuff so much I thought it would be a good nick on VB...<br><br>
I wouldn't know about the US (not much help from me, heh), but it's widely available here, at organic groceries / health food stores, and also at the fair trade shop.<br><br>
Make sure you get your protein from different sources (also throughout every single day). Always combining (rice + beans, etc.) in the same meal (to my knowledge) is not really necessary. If you're not limiting calorie intake and get plenty (of many various) vegan food, you should not have to worry about protein.
 

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I agree that rawgirl is right about the complimentary protein mythology. Check out this link for detailed info:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-complementary-protein-myth-wont-go-away.html" target="_blank">http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...t-go-away.html</a>
 

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I'm very interested in learning more about the myth of complete proteins and the ability to store amino acids. The following text seems to refute those assertions. Thank you for your input.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Essential Amnio Acids<br><br><br><br>
The role of protein in food is not to provide the body proteins directly, but to supply the amino acids from which the body can make its own proteins. Since the body can make some amino acids for itself, the proteins in the diet need not contain these amino acids. But there are some aminco acids the body can't make at all, and some it can't make fast enough to meet its needs. (This is because the body does not possess the genes for the enzymes that could synthesize these amino acids, or because the enzymes it does not make work too slowly.) These are the nine essential amino acids.<br><br><br><br>
...<br><br><br><br>
A diet that supplies each essential amino acid in adequate amounts supports protein synthesis in the body. <b>To make protein, cells must have all the needed amino acids available simultaneously.</b> Therefore, the first important characteristic of a diet with respect to protein is that it should supply at least the nine essential amino acids and enough nitrogen for the synthesis of the others. If one amino acid is supplied in an amount smaller than is needed, the total amount of protein that can be synthesized from the others will be limited. <b>Partial proteins are not made, only complete ones; there is an all-or-none law of protein synthesis.</b><br><br><br><br>
...<br><br><br><br>
(gives an analogy to sign making and not having enough letters to paint on them).. <b>Furthermore, the sign maker has no place to keep the leftover letters (just as the body has no storage place for extra amino acids)</b>, so without additional letters right away, all the other letters will be thrown away.<br><br><br><br>
Source: Understanding Nutrition, 5th ed., pg. 140, Whitney, Hamilton, Rolfes.<br><br><br><br>
This text (recent edition) is currently being used at UC Berkley by Prof. Nancy Amy in an intro to nutrition course.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Robot</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Im currently reading <i>The China Study</i>, so I hope, by the end of the book, Ill have much more knowledge of the protein situation.<br><br><br><br>
Thanks for your responses! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rockon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rockon:"></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Great book!!!<br><br><br><br>
Anyhow, I love quinoa too and millet and amaranth are some other high protein grains to try. Plus, they don't have gluten, so they're great for gluten-intolerant people or Celiacs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just curious, if I eat a handful (or whatever the appropriate amount is) of quinoa, does that give me all of the essential amino acids/proteins I need for the day?
 

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the thruth is that most plant sources have all 9 essential amino acids. the incomplete thing is referring to the fact that most plant sources are missing hydroxyproline. but that isnt essential so it can be manufactured anyway.<br><br><a href="http://www.nutritiondata.com" target="_blank">www.nutritiondata.com</a><br><br>
go there and search for a food, it gives a COMPLETE breakdown of everything of a food, heres spinach for you<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><a href="http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20gM.html" target="_blank">http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20gM.html</a><br><br>
also if you ever get in a debate with an omni, just make sure he knows that <b>per calorie</b> spinach has more protein then sirloin steak
 

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Based on this article:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.quinoa.net/Nutrition_Facts/nutrition_facts.html" target="_blank">http://www.quinoa.net/Nutrition_Fact...ion_facts.html</a><br><br><br><br>
Check out the second table. They compare how wheat, soy, and quinoa stack up against FAO recommendations (of 1973). It exceeds all of the FAO minimums, except for Valine (barely.)<br><br><br><br>
According to this link:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.elook.org/nutrition/grains/6653.html" target="_blank">http://www.elook.org/nutrition/grains/6653.html</a><br><br><br><br>
An average person might need about 4 cups of this @ 100g per day to meet their nutritional requirements. Not sure which recommendations that's based on though.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
References:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.fao.org/" target="_blank">http://www.fao.org/</a><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Robot</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Just curious, if I eat a handful (or whatever the appropriate amount is) of quinoa, does that give me all of the essential amino acids/proteins I need for the day?</div>
</div>
<br>
 

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Cool link, thanks for that.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>veg*nrunner</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
the thruth is that most plant sources have all 9 essential amino acids. the incomplete thing is referring to the fact that most plant sources are missing hydroxyproline. but that isnt essential so it can be manufactured anyway.<br><br><a href="http://www.nutritiondata.com" target="_blank">www.nutritiondata.com</a><br><br>
go there and search for a food, it gives a COMPLETE breakdown of everything of a food, heres spinach for you<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><a href="http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20gM.html" target="_blank">http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20gM.html</a><br><br>
also if you ever get in a debate with an omni, just make sure he knows that <b>per calorie</b> spinach has more protein then sirloin steak</div>
</div>
<br>
 

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I haven't looked in an average grocery store for quinoa. I get mine from Whole Foods Markets.<br><br><br><br>
I wouldn't rely on any one food for my nutrients. We thrive best when eating a variety of foods.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Robot</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Im currently reading <i>The China Study</i>, so I hope, by the end of the book, Ill have much more knowledge of the protein situation.<br><br><br><br>
Thanks for your responses! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rockon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rockon:"></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
The first couple of chapters actually provides pretty good coverage of why "complete proteins" are overrated. Yes, you need them, but your body actually separates the proteins into their amino acids and recombines them to make the proteins it needs. If you eat a varied diet -- including whole grains and legumes -- you will get all the protein you need.<br><br><br><br>
If you're just curious about what proteins each food contains, nutritiondata.com can help with specific foods.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>VeggieFrank</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm very interested in learning more about the myth of complete proteins and the ability to store amino acids. The following text seems to refute those assertions. Thank you for your input....<br><br><br><br>
A diet that supplies each essential amino acid in adequate amounts supports protein synthesis in the body. <b>To make protein, cells must have all the needed amino acids available simultaneously.</b> Therefore, the first important characteristic of a diet with respect to protein is that it should supply at least the nine essential amino acids and enough nitrogen for the synthesis of the others. If one amino acid is supplied in an amount smaller than is needed, the total amount of protein that can be synthesized from the others will be limited. <b>Partial proteins are not made, only complete ones; there is an all-or-none law of protein synthesis.</b><br></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Frank, here is an explanation from Dr. Fuhrman about what it takes to have all the needed amino acids available simultaneously:<br><br><br><br>
"All vegetables and grains contain all 8 of the essential amino acids, as well as the 12 other non-essential ones. While some vegetables have a higher or lower proportion of certain amino acids than others, when eaten in amounts necessary to satisfy your caloric needs, a sufficient amount of all essential amino acids is available. Because digestive secretions and sloughed off mucosal cells are constantly recycled and re-absorbed, the amino acid composition of post prandial (after meal) blood is remarkably complete in spite of any short term irregularities in the dietary supply of amino acids."<br><br><br><br>
Here is a link I think you will find very interesting, where Dr. McDougall finds himself debating the American Heart Association on this subject in the Correspondence section of 'Circulation', which is the peer-reviewed medical journal published by the American Heart Association. There are some references there you can look into if you want to research this farther:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/105/25/e197#R4-109992" target="_blank">http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/...e197#R4-109992</a>
 
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