VeggieBoards - Reply to Topic
Thread: Ah, Georgia Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the VeggieBoards forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in


  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-25-2004 04:16 PM
Marie Everytime I see this thread title it makes me think of Radar with his "ahh Bach!"
11-25-2004 01:51 PM
Tame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Newbie View Post

What would be your criteria for including these "many" other theories? Would they need to be scientific theories? How many widely-accepted scientific theories of origin are there? These are science textbooks, after all.



I don't particularly care if other theories are presented per se, aso much as the fact that evolution is a theory, and quite unproven, is acknowledged.
11-24-2004 10:45 AM
Beancounter Personally, I have never heard anyone insist that evolution was a fact. "The theory of" almost always precedes the word "evolution".



However, on the flip side, when theist speak of creationism, I have NEVER heard them refer to it as "the theory of creation"
11-24-2004 10:03 AM
LudwigB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Newbie View Post

What would be your criteria for including these "many" other theories? Would they need to be scientific theories? How many widely-accepted scientific theories of origin are there?



No creation theory of religious origin can ever be considered "scientific" because no theory of religious origin can ever be falsified. Darwinian evolution can be falsified, although nobody has yet done so using logic and experiment.



Furthermore, as many have pointed out in other threads, evolution concerns only the divergence of hereditary traits over time. It makes no claim as to where anything originated. Anyone who ignores this point (i.e. 99% of those who oppose mandatory teaching of evolution) is only revealing his or her own ignorance.



Tame: You're right. Evolution IS generally presented as hard fact, even though it is just a theory. But so are the law of universal gravitation and the mechanism of photosynthesis. All scientific theories are generally presented this way to middle- and high-school students because students need a foundation of knowledge ("facts") before they can engage in realistic "debate". Basing a high school biology class on scientific debate would be like asking someone with no knowledge of American history to argue that it was the Antebellum period, rather than the Reconstruction, which most greatly influenced present-day Southern culture. You can't debate and question without knowledge, even if that knowledge is only provisional. Debate takes place later on, when you've mastered the basics.
11-24-2004 08:26 AM
ceryna I don't believe that religious theories belong in science text, so if evolution is presented as one of many theories, the other theories presented should be scientific in nature.



Creationism is more suited to Sunday School texts than scientific texts for schools.
11-24-2004 08:14 AM
GhostUser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurmudgeon View Post

I thought this was about the theory of evolution, not the theory of creation (and thus origin).

And again, I ask, what textbooks are these stickers being placed on?





According to this article, any textbook even touching on evolution has the sticker, and there are total of 13 texts currently in that category.



I was using the term "origin" loosely to encompass any theory that addresses how humans came to be human.
11-24-2004 08:03 AM
Kurmudgeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Newbie View Post

How many widely-accepted scientific theories of origin are there? These are science textbooks, after all.



I thought this was about the theory of evolution, not the theory of creation (and thus origin).

And again, I ask, what textbooks are these stickers being placed on?
11-24-2004 07:59 AM
GhostUser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

If it were presented as one theory among many, I would be content, as would most people.



What would be your criteria for including these "many" other theories? Would they need to be scientific theories? How many widely-accepted scientific theories of origin are there? These are science textbooks, after all.



And if we did cross the line of allowing religious theory into scientific literature, what kind of criteria would you use to determine which religions' theories were allowed?
11-24-2004 06:26 AM
Tame
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceryna View Post

I have no problem with advising students to approach things with an open mind and study them carefully, but the fact that this one issue was singled out reflects on the motives of those who insisted upon the sticker in the first place.



Or is it a result of this being a controversial issue to many, on both sides?



Quote:

Rather than disregarding evolution or making it seem "forbidden" as a concept, I think it should be presented as one theory among many, and students can draw their own conclusions based upon their personal beliefs and values. If a parent feels very strongly about Creationism, he/she can share these beliefs with his/her child in the home.



That's the problem (and the only one) I have with evolution science. It is presented as a cold, hard fact, when it isn't. Even though I essentially agree with it, it seems that on this issue, the science types are content to stifle any other opinions on the matter.

If it were presented as one theory among many, I would be content, as would most people.

Of course, this is why I also avoid the public school system like the plague.
11-24-2004 06:22 AM
Tame
Quote:
Originally Posted by missleigh View Post

Exactly. By only bringing attention to the theory of evolution, the sticker may as well say "We don't agree with this, and neither should you, but make up your own mind I guess"





Wow. Your bversion of the statement and the real one don't match up well.



"This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."
11-24-2004 06:21 AM
ceryna I have no problem with advising students to approach things with an open mind and study them carefully, but the fact that this one issue was singled out reflects on the motives of those who insisted upon the sticker in the first place.



If the disclaimer was in the front of the text, stating "This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered," I'd be fine with it, because it wouldn't be singling any particular concepts out due to religious reasons.



As a graduate of the Cobb County school system, my personal experience was that evolution was barely covered. I remember that in my 8th grade science class, a student asked the teacher why we were skipping a particular chapter, and her reply was something along the lines of "It's a sensitive issue and we don't want to offend anyone."



Rather than disregarding evolution or making it seem "forbidden" as a concept, I think it should be presented as one theory among many, and students can draw their own conclusions based upon their personal beliefs and values. If a parent feels very strongly about Creationism, he/she can share these beliefs with his/her child in the home.
11-24-2004 06:20 AM
Kurmudgeon ^^^





ETA: Er, that was meant for Tame.
11-24-2004 06:19 AM
missleigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Newbie View Post

The wording is correct, technically. But why not warn about *every* scientific theory? This is obviously driven by religious bias.



Exactly. By only bringing attention to the theory of evolution, the sticker may as well say "We don't agree with this, and neither should you, but make up your own mind I guess"
11-24-2004 06:17 AM
Christy ^^^





ETA: Er, that was meant for VIO.
11-24-2004 06:17 AM
Tame
Quote:
Originally Posted by veganinohio View Post

Yes, the sticker is literally true, but does seem to be trying to undercut the volumes of evidence that support evolutionary theory.



But it doesn't say it is false, and honestly, even though a lot of the evolutionary theory is guess work, it is presented as undeniable fact. There are zealots on both sides, as demonstrated by the attitude of some here.



Quote:

And, the people who want that sticker in place aren't generally known for promoting approaching anything with an "open mind," so that's more than a little ironic. We all know that their true motives here likely aren't geared towards promoting critical thought, but let's be honest here, they're more likely interested in stifling it.



Depends on who "their" is. Some may have that motive, some do not. In this case, nothing has been stifled, so no need for panties to start bunching up.
11-24-2004 06:14 AM
veganinohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

"This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."



I really have to question the intelligence of anyone who interprets that statement as dismissing scientific theories (not "facts") or somehow embracing superstition.



Yes, the sticker is literally true, but does seem to be trying to undercut the volumes of evidence that support evolutionary theory.



And, the people who want that sticker in place aren't generally known for promoting approaching anything with an "open mind," so that's more than a little ironic. We all know that their true motives here likely aren't geared towards promoting critical thought, but let's be honest here, they're more likely interested in stifling it.
11-24-2004 06:06 AM
Tame "This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered."



I really have to question the intelligence of anyone who interprets that statement as dismissing scientific theories (not "facts") or somehow embracing superstition.
11-24-2004 02:47 AM
Gothic Sponge
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpu...Disclaimer.jpg



That is the real sticker, from Cobb County, Georgia, part of the Atlanta metro region.



I like that sticker! Who needs all that crazy science stuff? I don't want my children learning those scientific "facts!" All schools should embrace and teach superstition.



11-23-2004 11:13 PM
Kurmudgeon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Newbie View Post

But why not warn about *every* scientific theory?



Is the text book with the warning only about the theory of evolution? If so, then there's no need to "warn" about every scientific method.



And you know.... God forbid anyone should approach anything with an open mind.
11-23-2004 10:37 PM
GhostUser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tame View Post

A.) Nothing in the sticker is incorrect.



B.) Cobb County isn't bad place.



C.) Nice that those who disagree with you aren't "evolved". I'm guessing you probably live inside the perimeter.





A.) The wording is correct, technically. But why not warn about *every* scientific theory? This is obviously driven by religious bias.



B.) Where did I say Cobb County was a "bad place"?



C.) Oh, excuse me -- a government body going out of its way to condemn homosexuality (and by extension, its own gay citizens) is *highly* evolved. And you guess wrong.
11-23-2004 10:02 PM
Tame A.) Nothing in the sticker is incorrect.



B.) Cobb County isn't bad place.



C.) Nice that those who disagree with you aren't "evolved". I'm guessing you probably live inside the perimeter.
11-23-2004 09:56 PM
GhostUser I live just outside of Cobb. It is the same place that passed a resolution in the '90's condemning homosexuality and lost their 1996 Olympics venue because of it. Funny how the least evolved people are the most in denial about the concept itself.
11-23-2004 03:15 PM
Christy Public.
11-23-2004 02:24 PM
vggiegirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpu...Disclaimer.jpg



That is the real sticker, from Cobb County, Georgia, part of the Atlanta metro region.



I'm confused, now is this for public schools? Cuz if it's a Catholic school, I can understand. Public schools that's just dumb...
11-23-2004 02:12 PM
ceryna It just gets better and better. ;-;
11-23-2004 09:32 AM
Christy There's no getting high or getting off in Cobb, either.
11-23-2004 09:24 AM
missleigh Boy, am I glad I live in Cobb County right now. Proud as punch.
11-23-2004 09:17 AM
LudwigB Isn't there a company somewhere that's selling similar stickers to put on Bibles? Now that's an idea!!
11-23-2004 08:53 AM
Christy I'd been half-heartedly keeping up with this in this thread. I'm too disgusted to follow it further.
11-23-2004 08:43 AM
das_nut http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpu...Disclaimer.jpg



That is the real sticker, from Cobb County, Georgia, part of the Atlanta metro region.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off