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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-17-2006 08:41 PM
froggythefrog
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

Just an FYI, the post you quoted of mine was from back in 2004.



Don't you know I have a disclaimer stating I can't be held responsible for anything I said more than 6 months ago.



Let's make black vinyl jackets that read "Lobster Rescue!" on the back to go into stores with.
06-17-2006 10:52 AM
kpickell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss T. Bell View Post

Hello,

I'm approx 5 mnts new to this Board so forgive me if I've not done proper protocal. I searched/registered w/this link as I was about to perform a Lobster Rescue this evening while getting my groceries. Like many, I find it upsetting when I see so many in a tank. I always wish I had the $ to buy them all and release. Release and then what? Like someone wrote earlier - you're just feeding the cycle. We have a harbour close by - contaiminated - like so many others. The guy at the fish section was sympathic. He said I 'wasn't the 1st' who wanted to do a rescue. Besides risking a broken finger taking off the elastic on the claws & dumping them into a polluted harbour, I decided against.



Am I a coward? Did I do the right thing? I don't know. I wanted to help them (still do), but don't know what to do. Any advice or comments, please let me know - regardless of how ugly it may be. Thanks for listening, folks.

I'm glad you decided against the rescue. It sounds like you would have just been giving them a death sentence in those waters, and supporting the trappers to boot.



Better just to educate people on the possibility that crustaceans might be able to feel pain and that caring people should err on the side of caution.
06-17-2006 10:49 AM
kpickell
Quote:
Originally Posted by troub View Post

ooooo good idea.



Its not stealing because you cannot own another life. Just like setting a slave free. Liberate the lobsters!





Of course the police wont see it that way, and likely lable you an AR TERRORIST!!!! But the lobsters would be happy.

Just an FYI, the post you quoted of mine was from back in 2004.



Don't you know I have a disclaimer stating I can't be held responsible for anything I said more than 6 months ago.
06-17-2006 10:42 AM
cryptoveggie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss T. Bell View Post

Hello,

I'm approx 5 mnts new to this Board so forgive me if I've not done proper protocal. I searched/registered w/this link as I was about to perform a Lobster Rescue this evening while getting my groceries. Like many, I find it upsetting when I see so many in a tank. I always wish I had the $ to buy them all and release. Release and then what? Like someone wrote earlier - you're just feeding the cycle. We have a harbour close by - contaiminated - like so many others. The guy at the fish section was sympathic. He said I 'wasn't the 1st' who wanted to do a rescue. Besides risking a broken finger taking off the elastic on the claws & dumping them into a polluted harbour, I decided against.



Am I a coward? Did I do the right thing? I don't know. I wanted to help them (still do), but don't know what to do. Any advice or comments, please let me know - regardless of how ugly it may be. Thanks for listening, folks.



A lot of us feel the same way but bying a few lobsters would hurt others. The store I shop at doesn't have a lobster tank but I feel the same way about the hermit crabs they sell as pets at the mall. Most of them will be harassed and neglected until they die. I don't live anywhere near their natural environment so release isn't an option but I probably could take better care of them that some five year old who doesn't know the difference between an animal and a toy. The problem is, if I buy the crabs the people who sell the crabs with think the fad is going strong so more crabs will be taken from thier homes and sent to be harrased and neglected. Fricking economics.
06-17-2006 04:12 AM
troub
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

you could steal them instead of buying them, and then leave a "lobster liberation" sticker on the tank... then they aren't making money off of your adventure.



ooooo good idea.



Its not stealing because you cannot own another life. Just like setting a slave free. Liberate the lobsters!





Of course the police wont see it that way, and likely lable you an AR TERRORIST!!!! But the lobsters would be happy.
06-16-2006 06:47 PM
Miss T. Bell Hello,

I'm approx 5 mnts new to this Board so forgive me if I've not done proper protocal. I searched/registered w/this link as I was about to perform a Lobster Rescue this evening while getting my groceries. Like many, I find it upsetting when I see so many in a tank. I always wish I had the $ to buy them all and release. Release and then what? Like someone wrote earlier - you're just feeding the cycle. We have a harbour close by - contaiminated - like so many others. The guy at the fish section was sympathic. He said I 'wasn't the 1st' who wanted to do a rescue. Besides risking a broken finger taking off the elastic on the claws & dumping them into a polluted harbour, I decided against.



Am I a coward? Did I do the right thing? I don't know. I wanted to help them (still do), but don't know what to do. Any advice or comments, please let me know - regardless of how ugly it may be. Thanks for listening, folks.
07-21-2004 04:04 AM
seyorni If I ran a store and a particular item had a defect rate (eg: dead lobsters) high enough to eat up any profit, I'd discontinue it and use the space for something more profitable. Don't need an MBA to figure that out.



True, it's a drop in the bucket from a whole-industry standpoint, but, so is eschewing eating them, which, I assume, we'd all agree with.
07-19-2004 02:09 PM
Alfiedog ahhhhh. I have to go around the aisles at the local grocery store so I don't see the tank. I feel so bad for them with their claws all taped



I always thought that was horrible to pick the animal you want to torture in hot water and eat.



Another horrible thing . . . I had to take some clients to a steak house (EEEEEK) and you know how they bring those big slabs of dead cows around? They had a live lobster on the tray. I was in tears. Everyone tried to make me feel better saying the lobster would live longer. I had to explain that it's torture for a lobster out of water, it's like slow suffocation and I'd rather they put the poor thing out of it's misary Needless to say, since then, I've steered clients away from steak and seafood restaurants.
07-17-2004 05:55 PM
Annie My husband signed up at work for a free "Red Lobster" dinner hoping to win so we could throw away the certificate and let NO ONE kill them for free.



Everyone knows he's a veggie, and I think they all got kind of honked off at the possibility that he could win, and they know what he'll do with it if he does.
07-17-2004 08:08 AM
froggythefrog
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00d View Post

Why on earth would you want to do that??

So that they won't end up back at the store, and have some hope of living a life, even if it's one of being caught and thrown back.





---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Popularize vandalizing the outside of lobster tanks and stores will have to keep them hidden. (Not recommended, just a vigilante thought)
07-17-2004 04:15 AM
d00d Why on earth would you want to do that??
07-17-2004 03:56 AM
Thalia I don't agree with buying them, for the reasons mentioned. But for those of you die-hard liberators, make sure you study how to care for lobsters and keep them long enough that they grow beyond the legal size limit for catches. Lobsters over a certain weight have to be thrown back.
07-17-2004 02:39 AM
Tommy Gun
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbeck View Post

However, the lobster fishermen are not going to alter their methods or harvest more lobsters just based on a few missing lobsters from one store's tank. So there really is no net effect on the harvesting of lobsters.

You're still creating more demand, and if a lot of people do it....





Quote:
When all is said and done, sure, perhaps the lobster won't survive. But one thing is 100% sure. If the lobster remains in the tank, it will has zero chance of surviving.

But it will just be replaced. I don't think that's doing any good. If you *stole* the lobsters, it makes some sense because the fisherpeople are losing money, but of course I don't recommend that either.





Quote:
If this was done in significant frequency, the net effect on the lobster market would be that the fishermen would have to spend more time harvesting. They would need more cages. It would cost them more money to do their work, which would drive up the price for lobster.

But they're being PAID by the liberators! It would cost them more but they're getting more money! I don't think the way to destroy a business is to pay them.





Quote:
Just think of the extreme example. Let's just say that 50% of the lobster that made it to the stores was bought by lobster sympathists, and liberated. The fishermen (sorry, and fisherwomen) would have to work twice as much to get the same amount of product out to the consumers. This would surely raise the demand, and price, for lobster.

...and what if we convince people to stop eating lobsters? The fisherpeople would get less money (and no money from us), and the demand would be way down so they'd catch less.





Quote:
If the activists could determine a good safe place to release the lobsters, the fisherpeople would in effect be helping to free the lobsters by bringing them to the store so people could save them there.

WHAT? The fisherpeople are the ones catching the lobsters in the first place!





Quote:
I say sometimes you just have to follow your heart.

I say you (by "you" I mean people, not you specifically) should think things through as much as possible and realize the *overall* effect you're doing.



Think of it this way:



There's a train coming down the tracks, and your friend is standing in front of it. You could go push him out of the way, but then you'd be standing on the tracks in his place (and he might die from the fall anyway). I think it makes a lot more sense to either stop the train (humans who eat lobsters), or keep people from standing on the tracks entirely (get stores to stop selling lobsters).



I realize that you *are* trying to think about every possibility, and that's good. It is really hard to say what would happen in each situation. Driving up the price *could* work, but I still think that's the wrong approach.



-------------------



seyorni, that's a really interesting idea!
07-16-2004 02:11 PM
seyorni Collect any lobsters that naturally die and freeze them. Liberate a lobster from time to time and replace him with a frozen one. No one will recognize the substitution. As the supply of dead lobsters increases increase the frequency of liberation. It will appear that there's a life-support problem in the tank. When no cheap fix is found, and the "deaths" continue, it will become economically untenable to maintain the tank.
07-16-2004 12:35 PM
GhostUser
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountessKerouac View Post

I have to go down the shore next week, so I was thinking since I work at a food store that sells live lobsters ( ) I would buy a few and put them into a sea water bucket and set them free into the ocean. I'm so excited that a few lucky lobsters will get another chance at being free! Wish me luck!



Jess makes some good points. Besides, if the lobsters just wandered back into another trap, the industry would be making double on your lobsters.







The Rev
07-16-2004 12:24 AM
gbeck Personally I see nothing wrong with freeing a lobster or two. Some of these arguments against it aren't really true.



As far as the store ordering more goes, yes, they will attempt to keep the same number of lobsters in stock, so if two are sold those two will be back in the tank next week. However, the lobster fishermen are not going to alter their methods or harvest more lobsters just based on a few missing lobsters from one store's tank. So there really is no net effect on the harvesting of lobsters.



In regards to the lobster not surviving, that is speculation. I'm sure, with some crude water test kits, one could examine the water in the store's tank and compare it to the ocean to determine if it is significantly different. If so, the lobster could be acclimated to the ocean water if the person was willing to keep the lobster in their house for a few days and mix the water and increasing concentrations. Also, it should be noted that the water in the tank is made to emulate the water in the ocean.



It is true that the lobster may be weak or injured in the store. This is another reason to acclimate the lobster before releasing it.



When all is said and done, sure, perhaps the lobster won't survive. But one thing is 100% sure. If the lobster remains in the tank, it will has zero chance of surviving.



Even if the survival rate in the liberation rate is low, it's still better than zero.



If this was done in significant frequency, the net effect on the lobster market would be that the fishermen would have to spend more time harvesting. They would need more cages. It would cost them more money to do their work, which would drive up the price for lobster. Then, economically speaking, when the price goes up, less people use that product, i.e. less lobster would be bought for consumption.



Just think of the extreme example. Let's just say that 50% of the lobster that made it to the stores was bought by lobster sympathists, and liberated. The fishermen (sorry, and fisherwomen) would have to work twice as much to get the same amount of product out to the consumers. This would surely raise the demand, and price, for lobster.



If the activists could determine a good safe place to release the lobsters, the fisherpeople would in effect be helping to free the lobsters by bringing them to the store so people could save them there.



Yes, this is all theoretical and somewhat optimistic. And there's still the problem of the parasites. But there are medicines that can kill parasites too.



I'm not saying that all the arguments against lobster liberation are wrong. I'm just saying that it's not all good or all bad to do something like that. In the end, the one thing you can be sure of is that you are releasing a lobster and giving it a chance. It's not a simple issue, but I don't think it's such a terrible thing to do if someone feels the desire. I say sometimes you just have to follow your heart.
06-26-2004 01:44 PM
Formerbaboon I was watching this cooking show the other day, and it was showing how to prepare lobsters. I cried. It was so morbid. Just wanted to say that.
06-26-2004 01:39 PM
Tommy Gun Thank you guys! I kept wanting to discuss this, but now I don't have to start a new thread. I kept reading about how John Feldmann (lead singer of Goldfinger) did a few Lobster Liberations. I thought it was so stupid that he was paying for them, and a month ago I emailed a friend of his explaining what you guys already posted. I asked if she would pass my message along. She emailed me back saying she knew what he would say, because he's heard the arguments before. WTF? I have tons of respect for John, but seriously. You're *supporting* the lobster industry! It would be like going to the store, buying meat, and throwing it away. The only difference is that the meat is already dead. I wish I could talk to John so I could hear what he has to say about it. It doesn't make any sense.



Still, I love you all for caring enough to want to save the lobsters. I know your hearts are in the right place.
06-24-2004 02:37 PM
Lily Underwood I live in Maine and I once released a couple of lobsters ... I also once helped PETA when they came up here to do the same thing ... I know intellectually the truth of what y'all are saying but sometimes emotion takes over. We humans are seriously flawed, even when we have the best intentions. Do I like to think those lobsters made it (even though they may not have)? Absolutely ...! And even with my current knowledge and intellectual comprehension of the arguments against it, I still can't help but think ... "at least they died free." As they say in New Hampshire, live free or die. Lobster Liberation Forever!



Thanks for listening ... and don't judge me too harshly.



Lily

www.delicioustv.com
06-24-2004 01:41 PM
Tash
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpickell View Post

you could steal them instead of buying them, and then leave a "lobster liberation" sticker on the tank... then they aren't making money off of your adventure.

YEAH-!

Whenever I go to the store I always make sure someone hears a sad comment near them. Hard to look at them..but I like to think of them "the words" as seeds planted..T.
06-24-2004 01:27 PM
VeggiTash aww that's a great thought .. shame it wouldn't really end the suffering, though.



I always remember in Spain the crab and lobster tanks. I wasn't even vegetarian then and I found them upsetting.. even my Dad was disgusted (and he's anti-animal rights, big meat eater, etc!) There were so many in the tanks that the ones on the bottom were crushed to death. The others just clambered around hopelessly.



Crabs and lobsters freak me out but it hurts to see them being tortured no living creature deserves that.
06-23-2004 01:04 AM
kpickell you could steal them instead of buying them, and then leave a "lobster liberation" sticker on the tank... then they aren't making money off of your adventure.
06-22-2004 01:08 PM
froggythefrog
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatless View Post

I understand how you feel and why it's so tempting, and also so frustrating that it would not have the same effects that you would hope for. My heart breaks every time I see a lobster tank.



Me and my ex-girlfriend:



ex-girlfriend: "Look at the lobsters."

Me: "I am not looking. They're all dead!"



The lady at the counter told us about an albino lobster that they released, somehow hoping this would make me feel better. I wanted to buy white suits for the whole tank.
06-22-2004 01:04 PM
froggythefrog
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountessKerouac View Post

I know about the contributing to the lobster sales, which I am not happy about. I'd rather have them have a chance of surviving than being boiled to death. At least they would have a chance.



People buy lobsters = increase in demand for lobsters = stores have all the more reason to keep supplying them.



Let's say you bought all of them and set them free. A good store will notice sales are up and you will see more lobsters in the tank than before.
06-22-2004 09:28 AM
*Star*Lass*
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountessKerouac View Post

I have to go down the shore next week, so I was thinking since I work at a food store that sells live lobsters ( ) I would buy a few and put them into a sea water bucket and set them free into the ocean. I'm so excited that a few lucky lobsters will get another chance at being free! Wish me luck!



Aww that was a lovely thought, but yeh, they probably wouldn't survive. And the food store where you work would just buy in other lobsters to replace them, so whilst you are trying to save those lobsters, more are being caught and sold at the other side of the evil cycle. It's a no-win situation.
06-22-2004 06:22 AM
Tyra I sssooo understand the urge...ANIMAL LIBERATION!!!!

They have a tank at my local grocery store and I tear up if I so much as catch a glimpse of it.Sometimes its just the smell gets me. They are so sad ...all huddled in the corner of the tank trying to hide under each other,their little claws all straped up like their prisoners on death row. I'm getting upset just thinking about it. PEOPLE SUCK!!
06-22-2004 04:46 AM
kat
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizarro View Post

i agree with what everybody else has said and have another comment too...



could it be possible that these lobsters or any parasites living on them are not native to the area where you were thinking of releasing them?



if so it could be detramental to the ecosystem.



Yeah I think this is very much true. I once saw a short film were a woman did this. She was the woman from those gravy ads (UK) and she was in a fish shop and the little lobster kept being cute to her. In the end she bought it and released it. In the film were she realsied it, it was a beach in Yorkshire or such like and probaly not suitable for the lobster. Nice thought behind the film, but not really the right thing to do. you'd be better of getting some rescued animals from the shelter and giving them a loving home,



Kat
06-22-2004 12:04 AM
bizarro i agree with what everybody else has said and have another comment too...



could it be possible that these lobsters or any parasites living on them are not native to the area where you were thinking of releasing them?



if so it could be detramental to the ecosystem.
06-19-2004 08:51 PM
meatless I understand how you feel and why it's so tempting, and also so frustrating that it would not have the same effects that you would hope for. My heart breaks every time I see a lobster tank.
06-19-2004 08:47 PM
CountessKerouac Awwww. Yeah. They would be happy to know that I refuse to work in seafood or dairy and will only work in produce or the checkout! lol Thank god I am going to college soon and won't have to work in such a place!
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