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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-26-2015 05:49 PM
Ukvege I don't care about thanksgiving, and I never have. I think it's unhealthy to starve yourself and then binge eat a meal. I don't think it's a good way to celebrate, and I think it also bothers me that people get so excited about a turkey. One of the biggest ironies is that meat eaters have a "kind heart" and they pardon *one* turkey and shed a tear, but then turkeys are murdered anyway all over the country for their thanksgiving meal.
Also, bad representation of stereotypes of native people and false friendships with pilgrims.
11-26-2015 12:22 PM
MadamSarcastra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purp View Post
You mean, you don't think holidays are offensive? @Beautiful Joe , all holidays are offensive. Except world vegan day. That's a great holiday.
Don't you dare forget Star Wars Day! (May the 4th be with you... heeheehee!)
And Pi Day! (3/14)
And Bloomsday! (6/16)
And Talk Like A Pirate Day! (9/19)
And don't even get me goin' on 4/20, kiddos.... LMAO

Yeah, I'm a huge dork for the non-traditional.
11-26-2015 08:02 AM
silva I don't have family other than my two sons, and we don't 'celebrate' it, other than I get two much needed days off.

It's a time to stay out of stores, be ready to change the tv channel, and be ready lots of dumb things people say
11-26-2015 07:53 AM
imagineaa
Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
The mass deaths of the original Americans were caused by a combination of European diseases (against which the original Americans had no immunity)
Obviously that is horrifying.

I've seen others (not you, David) conflating the unintended spreading of European disease via immigration with Thanksgiving. I understand that to be related to Columbus Day, but I fail to comprehend which of the story lines (I posted above) relate that to Thanksgiving.
11-26-2015 07:45 AM
imagineaa I am concerned about the origins of Thanksgiving, but as a skeptic, I hesitate to form opinions until I have hard facts. And I lack those.

I am not concerned about what Thanksgiving is today (secular harvest celebration), but rather the alleged historical revisionism.

There is the version I was taught in grade school. Peaceful religious people came to a New World to escape persecution, were starving and the American Indians shared a meal with them in the 1700s. Sounds nice and secular. I haven't found evidence yet, just posts on the Internet.

There is a similar version that it was a 1600s blend of a religious and nonreligious harvest celebrations from several different cultures. Sounds nice and religious. I haven't found evidence yet, just posts on the Internet.

There is the version that it was a celebration to thank God for supporting a 1600s genocidal act of the settlers against the American Indians (700 murders). Sounds horrible and religious. I haven't found evidence yet, just posts on the Internet.

I don't know what to believe. If an official proclamation was made to celebrate a genocide, that is obviously reprehensible. I would like to see that proclamation. All I can find are quotes from the proclamation that don't mention killing.

So I will go on having a nice meal and secular day of rest.

If anyone has actual evidence, please correct me.
11-26-2015 03:56 AM
Naturebound
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
It's a day to give thanks for the harvest, for having survived another year, and for having brought in the crops which will allow survival through the coming winter. It's rooted in traditions much more ancient and more widespread than the Pilgrim pablum fed to American schoolchildren.

I think that people need to stop taking offence at every holiday.
I was going to say something along these lines also. For many it is a religious holiday that has more to do with Christianity than the relationship between the Native Americans and the pilgrims.

It is sad though that this holiday has become so much more about commercialism, dead turkey, gluttony, violence, racism and the celebration of conquest.
11-25-2015 11:50 PM
Purp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful Joe View Post
It's a day to give thanks for the harvest, for having survived another year, and for having brought in the crops which will allow survival through the coming winter. It's rooted in traditions much more ancient and more widespread than the Pilgrim pablum fed to American schoolchildren.

I think that people need to stop taking offence at every holiday.
You mean, you don't think holidays are offensive? @Beautiful Joe , all holidays are offensive. Except world vegan day. That's a great holiday.
11-25-2015 11:15 PM
Beautiful Joe It's a day to give thanks for the harvest, for having survived another year, and for having brought in the crops which will allow survival through the coming winter. It's rooted in traditions much more ancient and more widespread than the Pilgrim pablum fed to American schoolchildren.

I think that people need to stop taking offence at every holiday.
11-25-2015 08:48 PM
David3 The mass deaths of the original Americans were caused by a combination of European diseases (against which the original Americans had no immunity), as well as violence and forced migration.

Wikipedia states that European diseases were by far the greatest cause of this mass death: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popula...f_the_Americas . In some regions, European diseases killed 90% of the original Americans' population. This is even worse than what the Black Plague did to Europe (average death rate ~ 45% over the course of 4 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death#Death_toll). What unspeakable misery. The mass deaths destroyed the original Americans' ability to defend their nations.

The original Americans' cultures prevailed for at least 12,000 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_...ens_migrations, and this ceased to be true only about 500 years ago.


Wikipedia has a pictorial history of the map of the United States. It illustrates just how much shameful land-grabbing was involved: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ..._United_States
11-25-2015 07:25 PM
sillybunnns
Protest Thanksgiving (quotes)

"Imagine that Germany won World War II and that a Nazi regime endured for some decades, eventually giving way to a more liberal state with a softer version of German-supremacist ideology. Imagine that a century later, Germans celebrated a holiday offering a whitewashed version of German/Jewish history that ignored that holocaust and the deep antisemitism of the culture. Imagine that the holiday provided a welcomed time for families and friends to gather and enjoy food and conversation. Imagine that businesses, schools and government offices closed on this day."





"The Mayflower’s cultural heirs are programmed to find glory in their own depravity and savagery in their most helpless victims."

"I have a difficult time experiencing gratitude on a holiday that celebrates and worships the dual genocide of a race of people and a species of animal." Gary Smith

To this day, I can hardly bear to think of that quintessentially American holiday —Thanksgiving. When I do, however, I do not dwell on Pilgrims with wide black hats sitting to sup with red men, their long hair adorned with eagle feathers. I think not of turkeys or of cranberries, foods now traditional for the day of feast...I think of the people we have habitually called ‘Indians,’ the Indigenous people of the Americas; those millions who are no more. I think of those precious few who remain, and wonder, what do they think of this day; this national myth of sweet brotherhood that masks what can only be called genocide.” Mumia Abu Jamal

"Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents. Without a prison, there can be no delinquents. We had no locks no keys and therefore among us there were no thieves. When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift. We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property. We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth. We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were no able to cheat and swindle one another. We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society" -John Fire Lame Deer
Original post @ Protest Thanksgiving (quotes)
-Cassie K, veganslivingofftheland.blogspot.com

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