I am slightly concerned about how omnivores coming to the forum considering transition to vegan may react if they are consider themselves to have been labelled as stupid.


Do you think it would make sense to not have the word "stupid" in the thread title. How about just "things that omnivores say". We want to make this forum welcoming for people that are transitioning.


Just try and remember some of these people that are considering transitioning may find their way to this thread, and I worry that this could have a negative consequence in terms of the chance of them transitioning or joining the forum. So I also want to suggest that people keep this in mind when venting frustrations. Anyway, that is purely a suggestion so of course you may not agree with it.

Agreed 100%. Just changing the thread title would make this whole forum more welcoming to newcomers. The current thread title is insulting - I think it makes us look hostile.
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I am slightly concerned about how omnivores coming to the forum considering transition to vegan may react if they are consider themselves to have been labelled as stupid.


Do you think it would make sense to not have the word "stupid" in the thread title. How about just "things that omnivores say". We want to make this forum welcoming for people that are transitioning.


Just try and remember some of these people that are considering transitioning may find their way to this thread, and I worry that this could have a negative consequence in terms of the chance of them transitioning or joining the forum. So I also want to suggest that people keep this in mind when venting frustrations. Anyway, that is purely a suggestion so of course you may not agree with it.

I explain that 50% of people who die in the USA die of heart disease and the Top 10 causes of death are 100% diet-related (smoking and car accidents are the only things not diet-related). I point out that the vegan Seventh-Day Adventists in Loma Linda, California and the vegan Okinawans in Japan are the longest-living people on the planet with virtually no diseases of any kind.
Her reply: "It's a choice. You do your thing and I'll do mine."
"50% of people are dying of heart disease. It's more than a personal preference, it's a serious health risk."
"Anyone can write anything on the internet."
"This is written on the US gov't websites and numerous health organizations and peer-reviewed scientific studies."
"Which studies? Anyone can write anything on the internet."
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Coworker: Why don't you put some tuna in your sandwich? It's very plain
Me: I'm a vegetarian, remember? Tuna is a fish, I don't eat fish
Coworker: But my sister in law is a vegetarian and she surely eats fish
Then I went on to explain the difference between vegetarians and pescetarians and how her SIL is the latter....

I really like what Matt Ball has to say about how to respond to knuckleheads in general. It’s about making small steps in the right direction until they finally see the light. Omnivores will be more receptive if we are encouraging instead of elitist or tearing them down. (mattball.org/2017/07/have-you-ever-had-bad-vegan-experience.html)

Her heart was in the right place, so I would focus on that. She’s trying. It’s obviously really mislead, but we have a habit of acting like they have all the same info we do. Not only do they NOT have that information, but most people aren’t emotionally ready to receive it anyway. Our job is to prep them, THEN teach them, not to convince, cuz it just doesn’t work.

EVERYONE should read “The Animal Activist’s Handbook” by Matt Ball, it’s taught me SO much about how to get the message across without becoming the judgmental vegan or the nazi foodie. (Mattball.org/2017/05/how-vegans-hurt-animals.html)

AND its really encouraging when you’re feeling discouraged =)

I really like what Matt Ball has to say about how to respond to knuckleheads in general. It’s about making small steps in the right direction until they finally see the light. Omnivores will be more receptive if we are encouraging instead of elitist or tearing them down. (mattball.org/2017/07/have-you-ever-had-bad-vegan-experience.html)

Her heart was in the right place, so I would focus on that. She’s trying. It’s obviously really mislead, but we have a habit of acting like they have all the same info we do. Not only do they NOT have that information, but most people aren’t emotionally ready to receive it anyway. Our job is to prep them, THEN teach them, not to convince, cuz it just doesn’t work.

EVERYONE should read “The Animal Activist’s Handbook” by Matt Ball, it’s taught me SO much about how to get the message across without becoming the judgmental vegan or the nazi foodie. (Mattball.org/2017/05/how-vegans-hurt-animals.html)

AND its really encouraging when you’re feeling discouraged =)

Haha Omnivores become instant nutrition experts as well when they discover you don't eat meat; asking where you get your protein and iron etc from. I ask them nutrition questions back (innocently, of course) - where they get their Vitamin B6 from, and Vitamin K, and Vitamin E etc.....they generally have no idea

I've been gone for a while (18 months or so) from these forums, and I can't believe this thread is still going - when are omnivores going to try and come up with better arguments?!!

A friend of mine: "you'll be really pleased with me, I've cut down on beef and pork, and eat lots more chicken instead".

Big sigh from me. And when I went on to explain that actually, more animals are being harmed not less, her face dropped. So she followed with "yeah, but it's only a chicken and chickens have smaller brains, they aren't very clever".

Another big sigh. And the start of a conversation about whether her much-loved and clever little dog (a terrier) is less intelligent than a bigger dog just because it's smaller.

Someday, someday, the penny will drop for this self-titled "animal lover".

I thought it was amazing that this poster, who I've never interacted with before, knows my code of ethics so well that he/she was able to determine that there were producers in the dairy and meat industries that meet them.

If you care about where your meat and milk comes from in terms of animal welfare? Well, then do your homework. Take the time to invest into researching/verifying claims and find those producers whose practices in reality (emphasis his/hers) agree with your own ethics.

I hear the "plants have feelings" argument a lot... way more than I would like to, especially considering it often comes from people I would otherwise consider to be intelligent *eyeroll*

Also, TFW you look at the vegetarian portion of a Chinese menu, and the dishes are clearly listed as being made with oyster sauce.... *facepalm*

We also recently learned that the vegetarian spring rolls at our favourite Thai restaurant (luckily we haven't eaten them since before going vegan) are made with CHICKEN BROTH - so yeah, maybe don't put that little green "V" next to it on the menu, eh? LOL

I'm so upset, you guys.

I just got into this conversation with this guy on reddit in a thread about Esther the Wonder Pig. I mentioned that her tail was docked because she came from a commercial farm and he said:



WTF? I replied:



I'm almost in tears because it's so unbelievable to me that someone would assume pigs are exhibiting these clear signs of agony "for the hell of it." Maybe assuming these incredibly smart animals are actually just stupid and insane makes it easier to justify eating bacon.

for the curious: they do this so the pigs won't rip other pigs' tails off (resulting in gangrene, seizures, and death) for what appears to be little more than the hell of it.

It's not for the hell of it, it's because they're stressed in a dirty and overcrowded environment. Sows in gestation crates will often bite the bars until their mouths bleed because they're bored and stressed from not being able to move.
Wild pigs and boars that have space and the ability to behave naturally don't do any of that.