|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|07-03-2015 08:20 PM|
|07-03-2015 07:49 PM|
In the past I'd heard general practitioners speculate that restricting refined sugar might be good for cancer patients, but I didnt know cancer specialists were beginning to advocate lowering dietary carbohydrate over all. Looks like I need to read more medical journals, lol. [I have seen papers where no-carb chow was better than american diet style chow, but equal to low fat vegan style diet in rats, but nothing on human cancer patients that I can recall]
|07-03-2015 04:26 PM|
I think it is more about how tumors thrive on sugar, not so much how insulin handles the blood sugar, particularly in her case since she is not diabetic. In a cancer patient sugar goes straight to the tumors and then they grow more.
She definitely eats vegetarian/vegan more now, I would say 80-90% of her diet is vegan. And I honestly think her diet change to eating more whole foods, particularly fruits and vegetables in conjunction with her small amount of animal products its what has been keeping her alive after a very grim diagnosis. I think she is doing just fine on her daily chicken in her lunch and I know that is what is right for her at this point in time. And she makes sure its raised humanely. I am a big advocate of doing what you can, and she is.
|07-02-2015 12:35 PM|
|07-02-2015 11:07 AM|
Fat and meat reduce insulin sensitivity, actually increasing between meal blood glucose regardless of reduced carbohydrate intake. Vegans just zip that blood glucose right into glycogen stores because of proper insulin function, thats why low fat vegan diets have been used to cure diabetes for a hundred years...
Always be suspicious of dietary advice from doctors, even the WHO has gone on record calling them shockingly incompetent in regards to diet and nutrition. Heck, my fathers doctor encouraged patients to cook with lard- lol
|07-02-2015 10:33 AM|
|Dave in MPLS||
Thinking about "traditional peoples" (for want of a better term) and folks in general who hold cultural traditions important to them-
Of course we should be interested in promoting veganism for all, but the best/most effective advocacy will come from within those communities. There's just too much history - colonialism, forced assimilation. I'm not saying "they" won't get our arguments, but that we should worry more about our own back yard than folks living on the frozen tundra. We have to trust that people will find there own way, support the seekers, and realize that our answers are not necessarily the answers (even the questions!)
One important part of this is being aware of the fact that we already frame our arguments and practical advice for people just like us. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. We tend to be experts in ourselves. But when we shut people out of the conversation - effectively if not intentionally - shame on us.
|07-02-2015 07:54 AM|
People seem to prefer the term "strict vegetarian". People either dont know what a vegan is, or have negative images of vegans.
I myself, thought that vegans are more than likely white, rich, etc. and that they were judgmental in nature.
But this forum educated me a lot on these issues. I straight up had cravings for fried fish, and several vegans on this board had great tips for me. nobody called me a murderer or banned me for sharing that.
BTW- I dont crave fried fish anymore, because I found the perfect "thing" to scratch that itch. Potato chips!
|07-02-2015 03:42 AM|
|07-01-2015 06:37 PM|
Late to the party, as usual. But I definitely think I can add in some helpful thoughts.
My background: I have crazy ****ing medical issues and although I grew up upper middle class(trust me, there is a big, bright, neon line between my people and the upper class) and have a degree in biology, my adult life has been marked by disability, multiple hospital stays and severe poverty, as well as near-homelessness. I am fortunate enough to know how to cook and cook well, and also have some background in cross cultural studies.
So, even though dairy is very reactive for many people, even people who have no idea, like I didn't, it can be a pain to avoid. Meat is not a pain to avoid at all, but dairy and eggs are "hidden" in lots of foods, and let's be real, folks: the problem with veganism is not that it's difficult, but that it requires education at minimum, and planning ahead to do well.
My major problem with veganism would be a problem whether I were vegan or not: I just don't have the money to eat well, or take the supplements I need. I don't have transportation to go grocery shopping, or enough money to buy reasonable amounts or kinds of food. I know that I have been fortunate on my vegan journey that I know how to get what I want out of food, generally. I am not limited to the salad and french fries at fast food joints because I will order a burger with no meat, no cheese, no mayo, and get loads of vegetables and grilled onions and it is DELICIOUS. I am also not picky. I am willing to eat pretty much anything as long as it's food and vegan. I know my nutrition and I know my body. This is all privilege for me.
It is not hard to learn to be a successful vegan. I tell my meat eating friends, "You're already eating vegan- you just cover it in dead people!" Learning to cook takes practice, though, and we poor people hate wasting food and time, but you don't have to know how to cook to make veganism work, either. As others have pointed out, you can microwave beans and rice. But that's learning, too. People work hard. But few people work SO hard they literally can not improve their lives whatsoever. And for those that do, we should be there for them. We should be there by their side in the struggle.
Anyway, to sum up, I give people temporary passes only because they BELIEVE they can't be vegan. It's our responsibility to SHOW them that they CAN. The whole world says, "It's impossible." We have to be there going, "No, look at us. We are doing it every day." I think almost everyone can be vegan. I think it's not possible to do it thinking in terms of perfection and purity; if eating a hamburger bun with milk products used as dough conditioners is the same thing as eating a bacon cheeseburger, why not eat the bacon cheeseburger? I think it is only possible in terms of working with people where they are, educating them and showing them the possibilities.
Two groups I might give passes to: Those with pressing medical needs or allergies, and those who live traditional lifestyles. Obviously some people are extremely ill and/or allergic to various things, and although a talented nutritionist could potentially find a vegan diet plan for every living person to subsist on, that clearly will not happen and it is too much to ask of many people who carry those burdens, since we don't live in a world where they won't have to do all that work themselves.
Very few live traditional lifestyles, and I daresay no one lives them 24/7- certainly the Sami do not require CAFOs for reindeer. Also, going vegan as a Sami person would not mean necessarily turning one's back on one's history. If I, as a white person, have become an anti-racist, does that mean that I necessarily despise my ancestors? No, I appreciate them for what I can, and I know they were products of their time, and they were mistaken. Everyone has to come to terms with the past.
|06-26-2015 12:50 PM|
Most people who say they can't, can. That's all I know for sure [emoji14]
It might be harder for people who don't have access to vegan alternatives, but not impossible.
|06-26-2015 12:14 PM|
|06-26-2015 10:21 AM|
|no whey jose||I don't believe that OP was asking if we couldn't think up an extreme hypothetical example of someone being unable to adopt a vegan diet, such as those with medical conditions or living in institutions, but rather if an average person with a lack of funds or free time could reasonably use these as an excuse not to stick to a vegan diet. For instance, I often hear "I am morally against violence to animals, but it's impossible for me to go vegan because I can't afford it/ don't have time to prepare vegan meals." If you can afford food, you can afford vegan food. If you have time to eat, you have time to eat vegan. I lived in a food desert for years, lived off food stamps and food banks, and it was no more difficult to find vegan options than non-vegan options at gas stations, dollar stores, and bodegas. The most I could say is that I had less of a selection, but that's not an adequate reason to act against one's morals. If a person chooses to eat animal products out of convenience, that's fine-- I wouldn't fault someone for doing so-- but admit that it's a matter of convenience and not necessity.|
|06-26-2015 09:57 AM|
I think it is helpful to acknowledge your privilege.
However, I dont have a lot of privelege. I live rurally, and my local grocery store does not carry a wide variety of vegan specific foods. (or a wide variety of any foods for that matter!)
I am not university educated, in fact I dont even have a highschool diploma. (I do have a GED, and have taken some community college courses)
Most of my nutrition information I read from books at my local library, and from used books I got at goodwill. I tend to pick up nutrition textbooks and learn things that way.
I am white, but not the "right kind" of white, ifykwim. I have lived at or below the poverty line my whole life.
I think there is room in veganism for people like me. Hopefully?
|06-25-2015 10:43 PM|
I saw this today
|06-25-2015 09:16 PM|
Some people have medical conditions that keep them from being vegan and require them to eat meat. For example, I had a friend with a sister who was born with some serious issues-she basically had severe intellectual disabilities and a slew of physical ones to boot. My friend told me because of this, she needed to eat 4,000-5,000 calories a day. That's difficult to do for a severely disabled child even when animal products are involved-it would be even harder while on a plant based diet. My mother is also a cancer patient, and she has been instructed to restrict her carbohydrates (sugars) because cancer loves to eat sugar. While she loves to eat mostly plant based food (and she does), she adds in a little (humanely raised) chicken to her lunches. I'm sure there are plenty of other conditions that prohibit veganism, but those are my two personal examples.
(*Edit: just saw the "everyone can be vegan except those with medical issues" line in the first post. Whups.)
I also believe that some people just feel better eating animal products and can feel really ill when not doing so-even if they are doing everything in their power to eat healthily. Perhaps everyone is just wired a little differently biochemically speaking. I'm not sure.
I don't think it would be fair to ask the Sami people to give up their culture to move to become "modernized" just so they could switch to veganism.
|06-18-2015 02:59 PM|
being vegan in the military would be an extra challenge, but my husband met several vegetarians during his service in the Marine Corps, so that is an option. I think in those situations you kind of eat the closest to vegan as you can.
I have a friend on myfitnesspal who is vegetarian, and must eat a very specific diet due to medical issues (cant eat much carbohydrates, no soy products,no gluten,must have higher fat/protien levels) and she eats quite a bit of dairy products as a result.
I suppose she could take supplement powders, like rice or pea protien shakes, and maybe eat more nuts/oils for the higher fat diet she must eat, but you can see how it would be harder in her specific case.
I also imagine if someone had other compounded ailments like fructose mal-absorption and a soy or nut allergy, it would be harder.
I am unsure of how many people have disorders like that, compounded in that way. But I could see where it could be potentially quite difficult.
When I was a very poor omni, I heard about veganism, and I thought that one day I would consider that further. I didnt really absorb the message, I just put a pin in it until I was ready to look at that portion of my life.
|06-18-2015 01:49 PM|
But the high cost of fresh vegetables isn't a deal breaker. Discount food markets like Grocer Outlet or Aldi make it easier to spend less and eat better. I bought a 2-pound bag of carrots at Aldi yesterday for about $1.20, and a couple of ripe mangos for 39 cents each, among other things. Vegetables and fruits are just as important whether a person eats tofu or meatloaf. The big switch to becoming vegan is substituting beans and grains for their former meat and dairy. Beans and rice are always going to be cheaper than meat, even in the US, even in the middle of an urban food desert. Though I admit shopping without a car can be a royal pain.
People who can't cook need to learn how, period. It's a basic life skill that's part of independent adult living. If they don't have access to a kitchen, that will likely resolve sooner or later. But right now, while they're stressed and slammed and poor, is when a lot of them are packing on the weight that'll be hard to shed later, and falling into habits that will be hard to break even once they've got breathing room and a kitchen full of nice appliances.
|06-18-2015 01:11 PM|
|06-18-2015 12:18 PM|
|Dave in MPLS||
An important issue, one I talk about often. Not today though. I'm taking a little break from "issues" for a day or so, I'm in "angry at the world" mode, so I'd be ranty. No one needs that
But good thread, good discussion going on.
(The reason for my reluctance today ... 9 dead in SC.)
|06-18-2015 11:27 AM|
|Jasminedesi16||Meg Moo, I do agree with you. Although I'd prefer everyone to be vegan I think it would be very hard to be vegan in extremely cold climates however people probably could today because of modern grocery stores, maybe two hundred years ago it wouldn't be possible. I think it would be hard to be vegan in some non-developed countries and where there is food shortages (even though the food given to livestock could probably feed them!). It might be hard to be a vegan in a country where there is strict government that has strict laws.|
|06-18-2015 10:44 AM|
No. I was referring to the Sami of Norway.
|06-18-2015 04:19 AM|
|06-17-2015 08:32 PM|
I think not everybody could be vegan, but the majority of us could be.
There are mountain people up in the north of europe where the lands are not arable and are covered with snow. They eat reindeers and use it's skin for clothes. We wouldn't be able to ask them to go vegan would we?
But us in the center of civilizations, with access to abundant plant based foods, could.
|06-17-2015 07:30 PM|
|06-16-2015 08:30 AM|
I will have apples,cereal, individual soymilk drink boxes, and things like that for myself and my kids, and there are plenty of Taco bell locations I can stop at for a quick bean burrito. I think I will be just fine on this trip.
I try to keep things simple to prevent getting overwhelmed.
|06-16-2015 08:24 AM|
If anyone else lives in a rural community, I find it helpful to ask for items that are carried by the same product lines that are available at their store.
For example- my local grocery store sells hormel canned chili. They can order vegetarian chili from the same company, without having to negotiate a new contract with a new supplier.
We carry one brand of ice cream locally, blue bunny brand. Blue bunny recently came out with an almond milk vegan ice cream, which would be easier for my grocer to get in than say, "so delicious" brand, because they already have a contract with blue bunny.
I hope that helps someone. Ask nicely and you'd be surprised how amenable people can be.
|06-16-2015 08:18 AM|
I also track certain items on amazon and purchase them when the price is right for my family. Last week I got 12 packages of shelf stable tofu, for $9.00, with no shipping cost.
I am very lucky to live in a town that has a grocery store. Its a small grocery store, which carries a lot of produce grown by local farmers (my neighbors).
The owner of our local grocery tries really hard to carry foods that people ask for, and she has recently started carrying veggie burgers, soymilk, and a few other nice veg*n items. I have told her how much I appreciate her efforts to keep our town healthy!
No, its not a dizzying array of choices, but I can make do pretty well here.
I used to live in a food desert, and I had access to a gas station for food. Now I wasnt veg*n then, but I remember seeing some veggie friendly things, like roasted peanuts, fruit juice, pretzels,tortilla chips... Not a whole lot, but not nothing, either. Usually in those situations you stock up like crazy when you do get to a full service grocery, and supplement as needed with gas station items.
|06-16-2015 07:55 AM|
|shellie||I think for most people being vegan is definitely possible, but people in certain circumstances (eating at soup kitchens, for instance) would be forced to eat what is given to them. I really couldn't fault someone for eating what is available if they can't afford to buy their own food.|
|06-16-2015 05:24 AM|
Generally eating healthily (i.e. whole foods) does require more time and preparation. But it's about being smart with it.
I'm currently working on eating Vegan every day of the work week. That means that I do a grocery shop on Monday (we have fridges at work) to form the basis of my meals for the week. So I need to spend a little time thinking about what to buy and what those ingredients are going to be used for. I can't just go grab a random selection of stuff that I think looks good. It requires a little bit of know how and confidence in the kitchen (but these are things you can learn! And it's so easy!). This week at home I've got a bunch of leftover stuff (vegan) from the weekend that I will use for meals at home (I leave the house at 7:15am and get back at 7:15pm - so I'm time poor). I also live with an omni. I know my food is cheaper - because I do the grocery shopping - and it's healthier.
To eat vegan successfully and cheaply you need to plan. Plan some more. Then shop. The food prep takes less time than you might think.
Also does anyone else follow the blog : a girl called jack.com? She's not vegan but she does a do vegan recipes and they are all super cheap and healthy. If you're just looking for the vegan recipes she's got them all grouped under a separate link :-)
|06-16-2015 03:46 AM|
I believe everyone can be vegan, but I do understand some may have it much harder than others. For example, a young teenager living at home who has a strong ethical desire to be vegan but the parents are totally against it. Or someone who lives in a food desert. I remember in 2013 flying by airplane to visit the inlaws who were doing missionary work in south Texas. The city we stayed in had very little food I could find to keep me going for a week in a hotel room. The local grocery store had a produce section the size of a small closet, and even the peanut butter had sugar and honey and crap in it. I couldn't find plain oatmeal, only the prepackaged stuff with added animal products in it. I couldn't even find a simple can of beans. I kid you not. Fortunately the inlaws drove me to the next city almost twenty miles away where there was a decent grocery store. Though where I live is not incredibly vegan friendly, I have always been able to find decent food at the grocery store and on a busline if need be, and the rare occasions I eat out there is always at least one or two token items that are vegan or can be made vegan. So to go somewhere like that was an eye opener. I could have still made it work but it would not have been easy.
My sister has a profound mental illness. She is unable to work and lives on assistance. Her budget is very tight. My Dad helps her out but he is not going to be around a lot longer. For a while I was a poor college student (I am 42 years old btw) living on loans, but one of my motivations for finishing school and getting a better paying full time job (which I have accomplished as of last year) is so that I can be a support to my sister as well. At any rate, she went vegan in 2012 and was vegan for two years. She changed from eating fast food and frozen dinners to cooking her own food from scratch. She got healthier and even became a less angry person. My Mom, a Benedictine nun, also went vegan for a short time but went back to omnivore claiming as someone who eats gluten free and has diverticulitis (can't eat nuts/seeds) it was too hard for her. Yet I have seen her bingeing on fast food that I am 100% certain is not gluten free. Sighs. My sister tends to be heavily influenced by my Mom, and over the last few months, despite my sister finally getting assistance by moving into section 8 housing (and now only having to pay 1/3 of her income for rent, whereas before it was 3/4 of her income) she told me she could no longer afford to eat vegan and went back to Omni. Sighs. I have even bought weeks of groceries for her and showed her how to shop to save money as she was buying 5 and 6 vegan yogurts per week and other expensive items. I suspect her move back to Omni is not because of financial reasons but more to do with social pressure.
I try not to be judgmental of others because I am a single person who makes my own choices and decisions. I don't have kids and don't live with parents. I do live with an omnivore husband but he is respectful and open minded about my veganism. I am highly independent, very introverted, and not easily influenced by others. Despite financial struggles myself, and health problems like severe osteoporosis, I have made veganism work for me. I have adapted it into my lifestyle. I am gone from the house from 6:15am to 5pm most days. Sunday is my day to cook stuff like dried beans or homemade bread for the next week. I shop at second hand stores, rarely eat out, sacrifice in other ways so I can have decent food. I also love to cook and prepare good food so it is not an issue for me whereas someone who hates or doesn't know how to cook is going to have a harder time and bigger learning curve. I shop through Amazon and add stuff to my wish list so I can watch the prices rise and fall, and when something falls low enough I can afford it I buy it. I have two pairs of vegan hiking shoes/work shoes I found this way for less than $60 each (one made with hemp, one with canvas) and I still have them four years later. I spend way less on toiletries as I stopped using hairspray when I went vegan, don't wear makeup, don't buy fancy shampoos and cleaning agents. I use lemon juice, vinegar, washing soda. Cheaper than the windex, clorex and other stuff I used to use. I don't have easy access to stuff like vegan commercial mayo or vegan commercial bread, so I make my own bread a lot (unless I don't mind spending $6 on Ezekiel bread) and make my own vegan mayo. It's cheaper that way and really doesn't take much time.
I like that in my city, there are community supported gardens for low income people to grow their own food. The community center across the street from me has plant based cooking classes for low income people. I live in a food desert area of my city but that is changing after years of rallying by the locals to get more stores out this way. We are getting a farmers market and a Whole Foods Coop out here this year and next. This is a shining example of people coming together to make positive changes for all. As vegans we can band together and work to make veganism more accessible and possible for others (not only financially but through education). And many of us are working toward this. I don't think veganism is a privilege. I think it is an important responsibility and obligation for us if we are going to move this world toward a more sustainable and nonviolent realm.
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