|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|06-27-2015 03:15 PM|
|06-26-2015 11:22 PM|
Plus this isn't a science forum.
|06-26-2015 11:18 PM|
Please provide a link to a better controlled, more statistically-relevant study that supports your position.
|06-25-2015 03:52 PM|
We have 3 rescued animals. An elderly great dane, a tabby kitten, an old maine coon cat. They get conventional grocery store petfood, both wet and dry. (the kitten gets all wet food)
We cannot afford to feed our pets a specialized diet on top of the other associated costs of owning a pet. Regular vet vists, flea protection, vaccines,grooming, and things like that.
I do the best I can for my pets, because for me, they are companions. I do supplement my dog's chow with "human food" and my maine coon eats squirrels and birds fairly regularly in the spring and summer. (not that I approve on this, of course!)
|06-25-2015 02:05 PM|
Also, that study may be from a reputable organization, but 17 is an awfully small sample size to predict outcomes with any high degree of accuracy.
|06-25-2015 03:53 AM|
I've moved this thread from the Transitioning to Vegetarian area as that is the wrong area for this kind of thread. I'm sorry that it's taken so long to spot and correct this.
|06-25-2015 12:11 AM|
Some vet actually wrote to the journal and bagged out vegetarian diets for cats and said anyone who defends it does so out of faith rather than a background of scientific knowledge. Anyway, then this Andrew Knight guy (another vet) replied back (I love the hint of sass in his first paragraph)
He's also Australian
There will be vets who are for it and vets who are against it. Ultimately, if people do decide to put their cats on a vegan diet they should definitely do their research and make sure with serological testing that no nutritional deficiencies are being caused. I won't be feeding my cats a vegan diet personally, because they're hella expensive and plus my cats are really old so I don't want to potentially shock their bodies with any drastic diet changes. I realise this is super long, but thought I would post this information for anyone who is interested.
|06-24-2015 08:24 PM|
WRONG WRONG WRONG
The American Veterinary Medical Association conducted a study of 17 cats on a vegan diet. 14 of the 17 cats had good nutritional status. Please see the link in my answer on this page.
Before you make such an emphatic statement, please seek research from reputable organizations.
|06-24-2015 07:27 PM|
|David3||The American Veterinary Medical Association conducted a research study on 17 cats being fed a vegetarian diet. Here is the full text of that study: http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.229.1.70|
|06-24-2015 12:46 PM|
I feed my cat welness canned and Acana (orijen brand) dry. I would be willing to try a vegan diet if there was a high quality cat food I could try. I do not trust myself enough to risk my cats life and health with trying to figure out his nutrition intact on a plant based diet. I feel like a hypocrite sometimes but hey it's just once part of being a vegetarian and having a cat I guess.
Envoyé en utilisant Tapatalk.
|06-23-2015 07:01 AM|
|06-23-2015 03:41 AM|
|varun||How about pet food brands like Whiskas/Kibble/Pedigree?|
|06-23-2015 03:35 AM|
|custardpie||@kyr656 Yes I am, halfway through at the moment! And that's so true what you said about Hills and Royal Canin always making themselves known to students! Always throwing competitions and giving free seminars. Such suck-ups hahah|
|06-22-2015 12:09 PM|
To the OP: That being said, ARE CARNIVORES. THEY CANNOT BE VEGAN. Putting cats on a vegan diet is a slow, cruel way to ensure a lifelong of illness and premature death. It's a tough call being a vegan, but I figure that: 1) I rescued my cat from possibly being euthanized 2) I keep her indoors so she does not harm any wildlife and 3) eats A LOT less meat than a human child (for instance) would on a daily basis. One of my cats is on a prescription diet because she has inflammatory bowel disease (Hill's brand, she loves and and it pretty much cured her IBS, so screw those people who poo-poo on Hill's). Milo and Jenny eat junky Whiskas wet food. Not the highest quality, but they are both well into their teens and have never had any major health problems.
Furthermore, I would recommend always feeding your cat a wet food diet only versus dry, as wet foods have more protein, more moisture (a lot of cats don't like drinking water) and less calories to protect against obesity, which can lead to diabetes.
|06-22-2015 06:58 AM|
Ingredient related issues - particularly with byproducts (though, it looks like hills recently got rid of them and replaced them with slightly better sources), vague-ingredients, lack of quality animal protein, and fillers (corn and wheat). Though they don't necessarily use all of the bad ingredients, the formulas seem to be dominated by wheat and corn and rather than quality animal proteins. Then they compensated by adding copious amounts of vitamins, which I suppose is what makes them so nutrient dense. Maybe that is why the vets carry and recommend it? Or maybe it's that it is a "proven formula" (through the animal testing?). My understanding (and people can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that the average vet isn't taught nutrition in detail. However, like you said, companies like Hills and Royal Canin make sure they are known from day one to vet students (through textbooks and "nutrition seminars".) Nutritionally, their foods might be OK, but the corn and wheat are concerning as well as the fact that so many supplements needed to be added- the majority of the nutrition should come from the ingredients. That "complaint" goes for both their cat and dog food. Hills was what I fed when I didn't know better (the vet recommends it, it must be good, right?) and my cats had nothing but issues after a few years of eating it which all makes sense now.
I quickly looked at Advance- chicken seems to be the first ingredient in most of the cat foods which is better than some others on the market. There are also 2-3 animal proteins in the first 5 ingredients for most of the foods offered by them which is pretty good. My only issues with it are the chicken tallow, chicken digest, corn and rice. Certainly not the worst on the market though.
Off topic: are you studying veterinary medicine? That is what I am interested in.
|06-22-2015 06:14 AM|
Last year,(two years ago?) I switched my cats over to the Blue Buffalo brand after some research. I also talked to a company rep and asked about the levels of three ingredients that my elderly cats need to prevent urine crystal formation. The rep assured me that yes, the indoor formula was appropriate and had my concerns covered...even though the ingredients in question were not listed on the bag. (I switched slowly, mixing the foods for a while.)
A week after switching completely, one of my cats became very ill. The other two elders became lethargic. My veterinarian told me that as of that time, the Blue brand cat foods were not formulated correctly for older cats.
I was disgusted because 1) I explained in detail what amounts of which minerals were needed, and why- and I was told by a company representative that the food contained these things in the proper amounts. 2) My cat almost died.
|06-22-2015 05:51 AM|
Can I ask why you say to avoid Hills and Royal Canin pet food? I know the others you mentioned are all cheap, but I thought Hills and Royal Canin were higher quality? Probably because we find them in all the vet clinics where I live, plus they tell us at uni that they are some of the best formulated pet foods around. I know they're definitely more nutrient dense, so I was wondering if you're saying to avoid them because their ingredients aren't actually that great?
And have you heard of the Advance pet food brand? It's kind of part of the higher range as well and I used to feed it to my cat thinking it was the best possible food I could afford (only changed because financial issues), but now you've got me wondering if it was even that good at all!
|06-22-2015 05:06 AM|
Not sure what the forum rules are when it comes to talking about pet food containing meat...Like I said above, I have been through tons of pet food research with my cats after one had allergies and both had weight problems (with poor foods- problems have cleared up with better ones). Anyway, here goes:
Because the availability of brands differs in different parts of the world, I have listed guidelines rather than just brands. I listed a few brands at the end though, that you may be able to find. Always, always ALWAYS read the ingredients before buying a pet food. Just because it says "gourmet" "natural" "recommended by __" or "organic" doesn't mean it is a good food for your pet. I have listed some things to avoid, and look for, along with examples of what they may look like in the ingredients. I can't comment on veggie cat foods but @no whey jose covered the gist of it in her post above.
- By-products - think cheap, leftover meat parts that are unfit for human consumption. To sum up the AAFCO's (they create guidelines for livestock/pet feed) definition, it is almost everything humans won't eat excluding feathers, hair, horns, teeth and hooves. Ew! (possible 4D source, see below) (ex. "(meat) by-products," "(meat) by-product meal")
- Animal digest - rendered by chemical/enzymatic process, it is non-descriptive and used for flavour.
- (meat) tallow - may include old restaurant grease, it is very hard to digest which causes problems. (ex. "beef tallow")
- Artificial colours - that makes the food look pretty for humans, cats don't care. They are often carcinogenic or deadly. (ex. "artificial colours" "added color (red 40, yellow 5, blue 2, and other color)")
- Artificial Flavours - Makes unsavoury concoctions called pet food taste good! Avoid em!
- Corn - corn is a cheap filler and contributes to the many diseases linked to high carbohydrate diets, including obesity, chronic inflammation, diabetes and cancer. Corn is also sweet and used to make unsavoury concoctions called pet food taste good. (ex. Corn, Corn Meal, or Corn Gluten Meal)
- Grain - cheap protein source. It is the primary contributor to obesity and allergies in cats. My cat, like I mentioned above, was VERY allergic to grains. (ex. "wheat," "rice," "whole wheat")
- Soy - common allergen, cheap meat protein, often GMO.
- ANY kind of "animal __" - if it says something like "animal fat" or "animal digest" avoid it. Anything vague - "animal (fill in the blank)" is non-descriptive and often comes from a very poor source (possible 4D source, see below).
- Chemical Preservatives - they are harsh chemicals known to cause cancer, organ toxicity and are not safe. (ex. BHA, BHT, TBHQ, Gallate, Ethoxyquin, and Propyl Sodium Nitrite/Nitrate)
- Sugar - like corn, it is used to make unsavoury concoctions called pet food taste good. There is no other reason for sugar to be in cat food.
- Propylene Glycol - tastes sweet, common in human deodorant and makeup. Slightly less toxic sister chemical to anti-freeze! Yum! (NOT! Avoid it!)
- Grocery store pet food - as a general rule, if you can get it in a grocery store, at Costco, Walmart, Target or anything like that, avoid it!
Also avoid any brand that has a bad track record (lots of recalls or problems in the past). Try to find foods that are made in the US/Canada/wherever you live. Avoid "made in China" or the like.
- Natural (meat) flavour - OK as long as it isn't vague. (ex. natural chicken flavour)
- Named meat meals - OK as long as it isn't vague. Meat by-product meals, however, are NOT ok, like I said. (ex. chicken meal, turkey meal, ocean fish meal)
- "Preserved with mixed tocopherols" - is natural vitamin E preservative.
- "Grain Free" - for the reasons above, it will often be written on the front of the bag/can.
- "Free of artificial colours and flavours" - for the reasons above, it will often be written on the front of the bag/can.
- An abundance of GOOD animal proteins - the more meat in the first 5-10 ingredients, the better. (Oy, I can't believe I just wrote that on a vegan/vegetarian forum) Ideally, the majority of the first 10 ingredients should be animal proteins.
- Specific ingredients - like I said above, avoid anything that is vague. Vague = questionable in most cases.
As for ingredient sources which OP was concerned about, a lot of "bad" meats (by-products, vague meats) come from "4D" sources - "Dead, Dying, Diseased or Disabled". I would avoid them not only because they come from poor sources and are bad for pets but because often, they are treated even more poorly on factory farms with the way they are handled and euthanized. I don't want to get into too much detail here, but I'm sure a lot of us have seen videos related to how factory farms handle and "get rid of" animals that aren't good enough for human consumption. I cannot confidently comment on the rest of the meat sources, however, my understanding is that meat in pet food is often leftovers from the meat industry. Within those "leftovers", there are better and worse quality ingredients which I covered above. I suppose it is important to note that some brands will perform animal testing to come up with the claims on their bags. If I remember correctly, Hills (Science Diet) and Iams test, to name a few.
With all of those things in mind, you are left with higher end foods. Yes, they are more expensive which scares a lot of pet owners. You have to remember that good foods are often calorie and nutrient dense. Foods with a lot of fillers are not. Calorie/nutrient dense = you don't feed as much and the bag lasts longer. Some poor-quality foods are expensive though, so don't let price confuse you- read those ingredients! All of them! Another thing to note is some of the vet bills you will avoid with higher-quality food. I wish I had looked into pet food research much sooner - I would've saved so much money with my cat who has allergies. I would've also saved her a lot of pain - she had far too many biopsies, cultures, and medications (steroids and medicated baths). Not to mention the pain with the initial symptoms.
Good food brands/"lines" include (but aren't limited to): "Wellness CORE!" (which is the grain free one), Petcureans "GO! Natural", Orijen, ACANA, "Merrick Before Grain", "Blue Buffalo Wilderness", Fromm and Wysong. Just remember: some of these brands also offer other lines with foods containing corn/grain or other not-so-good ingredients so read the ingredients before you buy!
ETA: I know for sure that Wellness has a few different lines (their "Wellness Core" line is good), Blue Buffalo has a few lines (their "Wilderness" line is grain free) and "GO! Natural" is Petcureans best grain free line (their "Now" and "Summit" lines are not the best TBH).
I would avoid: Science Diet, Iams, Purina, Meow Mix, Whiskas, Special Kitty, Royal Canin, Nutro, Kit'N Kaboodle, Friskies, Fancy Feast, and Eukanaba. Some of these brands offer a few half-decent foods but I still wouldn't feed them to my cats when there are alternatives out there that are much better.
ETA: If you do end up switching foods, do it gradually. Mix in a little bit of new food with your old food and gradually increase the ratio of old to new over a few weeks until you are completely switched. Cats tend to be picky and will take some time to switch over. Also, you don't want to upset their tummies and make them sick which drastic diet changes WILL do. It took me weeks to switch my cats because they were picky and the foods were very different.
|06-22-2015 04:57 AM|
|Nooch||I feed my cat standard cat food 'meat' and biscuits. It is what I can afford and she is healthy on it. I didn't choose to have a pet cat - she was a stray that needed care and I was the only one willing to look after her - so I am doing the best I can in my situation. She was in an accident at Christmas and now has three legs and no tail so she doesn't hunt very well anymore and probably couldn't survive on her own. I've read arguments on both sides but I err on the side of safety and feed her food that has a meat or fish component. I don't enjoy it but nor do I want to cause her any illness. She is spayed now, so no future cats to feed|
|06-22-2015 02:18 AM|
|no whey jose||
My understanding is that it might be possible for a cat to survive on an all-plant diet with proper supplementation, just as it might be possible for us to survive on an all-meat diet with proper supplementation, but neither diet is particularly desirable and it would be easy to make a mistake with terrible consequences. It's much better to adopt a herbivorous companion animal if you can't stomach the thought of buying meat in any form. Rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, and tortoises thrive on all-plant diets. Cats, no.
OP, I'm genuinely unsure about which brands of cat food (or which types of meat) are best for cats, but I hope someone else can tell us because my family is hoping to adopt a cat someday.
|06-22-2015 01:09 AM|
I do believe cats can survive on a vegan diet, although even Veganpet (an Australian vegan pet food company) says that maybe don't push a full-on vegan diet on to an older cat as it might be too much of a shock for its system. Something like that. Anyway, I don't see why a cat can't survive on a vegan diet as long is it is properly formulated by a trusted company. I know someone who is a vet nurse or something to do with companion animals and she mentioned that she sees so many cats/kittens that have gone blind due to their owners feeding them a homemade vegan diet. Obviously a lot of people are unaware of the essential nutrients cats need in their diets to survive and just 'wing it' at home.
If anyone knows more about this and wants to tell me I'm completely wrong, feel free to educate me! I've only done a little bit of research on the topic.
|06-22-2015 12:20 AM|
|rasitha.wijesekera||cats are not carnivorous. At least stray cats. They are omnivores with a liking for fish/meat. I|
|06-21-2015 04:20 AM|
|kyr656||My cats are not vegetarian/vegan. Personally, I don't think there has been enough research into plant-based cat food and I am not comfortable risking it. On top of that, one of my cats has severe food allergies - vomiting, and itchy skin that would lead her to over-groom which ripped her fur out and left raw, infected skin. I have finally found a food that is not giving us any problems and I'm not willing to put her through that again.|
|06-21-2015 03:23 AM|
|Naturebound||I don't have cats either but I imagine it is a tough situation to be in. So many cats are in need of homes and yet often cats do not do well on vegan diets, though I have heard some have made it work. I wouldn't judge a person for the need to feed their cat meat if the cat couldn't handle a plant based diet. It would be tough though to have to buy meat though.|
|06-20-2015 06:27 PM|
|xPigeon Swarmx||There's a contentious thread going on in a facebook group called Veganism right now -- people going back and forth -- obligate carnivores, my cats a vegan. That kind of thing. Kind of seems like It's possible if you do it right. I don't have cats, though, so I don't know.|
|06-20-2015 11:00 AM|
|Gmountain||Cats are carnivores. My cats get Wellness canned food and IAMS dry.|
|06-20-2015 10:51 AM|
What do you feed your cat?
I am going vegetarian, but my cat is not.
So given that he is going to be eating meat, does it matter what kind of meat I give him (he eats canned food, so it usually says "chicken" or "fish" or so on on the can)? I assume they are all byproducts from animals killed for humans, nothing is killed specifically to make cat food - right? Are there specific meats that are raised in a particularly cruel way or particularly bad for the environment that I should not buy even in cat food?