So honey is actually a byproduct of the need to pollinate crops?

The mass production of honey (and why it's a cheap enough ingredient to be found in so many prepared foods) is driven by the commercial bee industry that is necessary to pollinate many foods (including foods eaten in quantity by vegans).

If more people kept bees on a small scale, there would be less need for what I would call the "factory farming" of bees - those large operations where bees are transported from place to place, to pollinate crops in their various seasons.

It's that kind of beekeeping which causes so many bee deaths, both immediately and as a result of the long term stresses to animals who are very location oriented. (Conscientious beekeepers know that great care must be given if a hive is to be moved even a couple of feet.)

Honey, as it is found in so many prepared foods and in the grocery stores, is simply a byproduct of the primary industry, which is the pollination of crops such as almonds, etc.

That's why it's rather disingenuous to decry the consumption of honey while still eating the foods which are the primary reason bees are abused on a large scale.

It's maddening how much stuff has honey added to it. There are so many breads, sauces, cereals, granola bars, even teas, etc that would be vegan if not for the honey. There is a local progressive bakery in my town that used to make a lot of vegan breads and cookies. But they decided to start adding honey to almost all of them. Sighs.

One thing I don't get is those who argue that humans using honey is actually ensuring the survival of the honeybee. The sheer and vast amount of honey used in commercial food makes me wonder though just HOW MUCH honey humans think they "need" to use to ensure their survival.

Nope, happened with pumpkin butter and nuts that had honey too, I guess I built up an intolerance, it is the worst feeling in the world and it's hidden in more things than you'd think so I have to be really careful at restaurants to avoid certain dressings, nuts even desserts.

Maybe it wasn't the honey, maybe it was another ingredient in the sauce?

I'm a vegetarian but I cut out honey as well and I guess if you avoid it enough your gut cannot tolerate because at a potluck I tried a veggie salad that had an asian sauce with honey in it (unknown to me) and I could not stop throwing up until I felt the honey coming back up my throat. Did any one else have this reaction? When I googled reaction/ intolerance to honey I only get allergic reactions like swelling and bumps.

From your own thread:

If you have difficulty following or comprehending these policies, perhaps you should post elsewhere.

what are vegans that are influenced by other vegan groups suppose to do with respect to the vegan forum

Then why "call out" vegans for eschewing honey while still eating plants pollinated by them?

I believe you actually called us "dry drunks." That is name calling as well as calling out vegans for not being vegan enough.

Naturally I read the thread I created, but that was about which threads were going to get merged into the honey super thread (this thread) and doesn't address the question I just asked. To ask again, if veggieboards is equating "vegan" with the positions of the vegan society what are vegans that are influenced by other vegan groups suppose to do with respect to the vegan forum? Are they not suppose to post? Are they allowed to post but can't mention views that differ from the vegan society?

It's the position of VB to support both vegetarians and vegans. It's why we have separate forums for these two lifestyles. Vegans are not permitted to argue against vegetarianism in the Vegetarian forums. If you encounter violations of this, you should report it to the mods. By the same token, arguments in favor of non-vegan foods should be kept out of the Vegan forums. It's not so much a question of what you say, as of where you say it; however, be aware that attempts to redefine veganism to include non-vegan foods and practices will likely be moved to The Compost Heap, and if they're specifically about honey, to the Honey Superthread. We are not going to change the definition of veganism, for the sake of those wishing to call themselves vegan, while practicing a non-vegan lifestyle. We also have General Food Discussion and General Health Discussion forums, and The Veggie Patch, which is for "off-topic" conversations, such as ethical considerations and what-not.

It was explained in your own thread, Why are all threads on Honey being merged into a super thread? our policy on the Vegan Support forums. Perhaps you didn't read your thread, or should re-read it?

So just so I understand things correctly, so its only the people that follow the Vegan Societies version of veganism that should be posting in the vegan forum? Or, at the very least, any vegan that doesn't follow the vegan societies position cannot mention any viewpoints set forth by other vegan groups?

The vegan support forum is designed to help individuals who are currently trying to follow the aforementioned lifestyle set forth by The Vegan Society.

What makes it "the official" position? Because two vegan groups say it? Vegan Outreach and numerous other prominent vegans don't think honey, or similar issues, should be a litmus test for veganism.

I think honey eating vegans have more to worry about than whether this or that vegan society thinks they are vegan or not. Who cares?

Quote: Originally Posted by LedBoots 
That does sound a bit harsh, yes.
Perhaps you would be happy if we all became breatharians.
Breatharians who do not walk on the ground nor ride in or on vehicles. Perhaps the breathing is also harmful due to the hogging of thr animals' oxygen and the carbon dioxide output.

 
It's ironic that both you and leedsveg are accusing me of advocating for perfection when I'm arguing for inclusiveness.
 
 
Quote: Originally Posted by leedsveg
Yes and still going nowhere...



 
I became involved in this debate when moderators made statements that people who eat honey are "not-vegan" on the site support forum. I'm not posting here because I want to debate whether honey is vegan (boring), I'm posting here because I think calling vegans out as "not-vegan" is a crappy thing to do.
 
 

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

From 'junk food vegans' to raw food vegans - and everything in between - there's a version of veganism to suit everyone. Yet one thing we all have in common is a plant-based diet avoiding all animal foods such as meat, dairy, eggs and honey - as well as products like leather and any tested on animals.

They didn't ask for yet another debate about whether or not animal products are vegan. They aren't.

There's already a massive thread of pointless debating in the Compost Heap you can go to if you want but keep it out of the support forum please.

The official vegan position stands firmly against eating honey.[/url]

This is the vegan SUPPORT forum. If you want to start more arguments about honey there's already a thread for that in the Compost Heap.

lanolin is something i avoid because sheep husbandry is a very cruel business for the most part.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-u...stry/mulesing/

Quick question - how much B12 do u guys take? How often? I take 1 weekly now .

The official vegan position stands firmly against eating honey. Both the American Vegan Society and the British Vegan Society, the founding organization of veganism, prohibit the use of honey for those who wish to call themselves vegan, according to author and vegan Jo Stepaniak. "

** While there is disagreement in the greater vegan community (e.g., 20~30% of vegans eat honey), this website doesn't consider honey vegan. I'm not sure about lanolin.