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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-24-2012 05:53 PM
Poppy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 

That's wasn't the initial assertion made by the OP. It looks like the thread veered off in another direction from when I posted there.

 

At the time, the OP was insisting that since "oysters can't feel", it's OK to eat them".

 

That is what I was responding to, and the basis for my concerns.

 

Fair enough.  

 

But a statement like "oysters can't feel so it might be okay to eat them" does not equate to "oysters can't feel so we should eat them".  The op said several times that s/he didn't intend to eat them any time soon.  Peter Singer actually condoned the eating of bi-valves, or so the story goes, so the question of whether or not it's okay has been controversial for a while. 

 

Yeah, certainly some people like to come on VB and cause trouble by bringing up issues like why isn't it ok to eat oysters, you guys are monsters because plants feel pain, if we stop eating animals they'll take over the world, etc. But in all honesty a lot of our members enjoy engaging in those discussions. If it's an active discussion, not terribly offensive and doesn't break any rules, why not let it go on?  The way things are going these days, someone probably would have complained bitterly for shutting it down if we had! brood.gif

06-24-2012 05:23 PM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy View Post

 

 

The grey areas are not whether something is an animal or not (at least in my mind), but rather, despite the fact that they are animals, whether we choose to continue to exploit them for our own purposes, as when we choose to eat eggs.  These kinds of discussions take place on VeggieBoards all the time - and they should.

 

That's wasn't the initial assertion made by the OP. It looks like the thread veered off in another direction from when I posted there.

 

At the time, the OP was insisting that since "oysters can't feel", it's OK to eat them".

 

That is what I was responding to, and the basis for my concerns.

06-24-2012 04:39 PM
Poppy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 



Well this really isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I can tell you what isn't a grey area:

Anything that's an animal.

 

Last time I checked, oysters were under that classification.

 

 

The grey areas are not whether something is an animal or not (at least in my mind), but rather, despite the fact that they are animals, whether we choose to continue to exploit them for our own purposes, as when we choose to eat eggs.  These kinds of discussions take place on VeggieBoards all the time - and they should.

06-24-2012 03:39 PM
whisper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post

what organism would be a grey area to you?




Well this really isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I can tell you what isn't a grey area:
Anything that's an animal.

Last time I checked, oysters were under that classification.

Until oysters start growing on trees, I'll have to agree with this.

Don't they teach the difference between plants and animals in elementary school? huh.gif
06-24-2012 02:17 PM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbenstein View Post


what organism would be a grey area to you?

 



Well this really isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I can tell you what isn't a grey area:

Anything that's an animal.

 

Last time I checked, oysters were under that classification.

06-24-2012 02:02 PM
Blobbenstein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post



Well Ok, if you say so, but IMO oysters are not a grey area.


what organism would be a grey area to you?
06-24-2012 01:51 PM
Move of Ten
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer C View Post

I LOVED Humboldt. I'd move back stat, if it wasn't for my son's dad living here (I want him to see his dad). Where did you live? I lived in Samoa which was so darn quiet - all you'd hear is the ocean. So calming. I loved the Farmers' Market in Arcata too, and haven't found one I like more anywhere. Plus, I really like hiking. Like you say, the forests are amazing! In Samoa I was just a small leap away from uncrowded trails. In PDX we have some awesome hiking trails, but they can be really packed.

 

Ah, now I'm totally missing Humboldt :( I'll have to drive down for a visit. 


I lived in Arcata for 5 or 6 months.

06-24-2012 09:22 AM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy View Post

 

I don't think the question of oysters is worse than any of the other questions that come up regarding the grey areas of veg*nism: eggs & male chicks, cheese and dairy calves, etc.  Questioning all aspects of how and why we choose our particular path is a good way to reinforce our beliefs.  And arguing our beliefs to those who disagree, but who are within their rights given the rules of this community, is good practice for the world outside the internet, imho.

 


Well Ok, if you say so, but IMO oysters are not a grey area.

06-24-2012 08:23 AM
Poppy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 


Perhaps I'm coming across as militant, but I believe a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere. In an earlier time on VB, the person who wants to eat oysters would have quickly been shown the door. And I suppose it's open to interpretation, but to me it just seems like a backhand way to question veg*nism and justify/promote eating animals.

 

I realize it's up to the mods to decide, but asking such a question on a board dedicated to veg*nism is like..well like that like guy who tried to stop billy goats from crossing a bridge.

 

I don't think the question of oysters is worse than any of the other questions that come up regarding the grey areas of veg*nism: eggs & male chicks, cheese and dairy calves, etc.  Questioning all aspects of how and why we choose our particular path is a good way to reinforce our beliefs.  And arguing our beliefs to those who disagree, but who are within their rights given the rules of this community, is good practice for the world outside the internet, imho.

06-23-2012 05:26 PM
4everaspirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 


Perhaps I'm coming across as militant, but I believe a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere. In an earlier time on VB, the person who wants to eat oysters would have quickly been shown the door. And I suppose it's open to interpretation, but to me it just seems like a backhand way to question veg*nism and justify/promote eating animals.

 

I realize it's up to the mods to decide, but asking such a question on a board dedicated to veg*nism is like..well like that like guy who tried to stop billy goats from crossing a bridge.

 

I agree with your line and I don't want any vegans or veggies eating oysters either. The problem is, if science does find out that oysters can't feel and eating them would be like us eating plants, how would we justify ourselves when people ask why we don't east oysters? It's just something to think about. Granted though, oysters would still classify as "meat" I do believe, because they aren't very well...plant like lol so anyone who is a vegetarian by definition would simply not eat them xD Just like if any vegetarians want to start eating this futuristic, sci-fi lab meat, they wouldn't be vegetarian definition wise. Doesn't mean they aren't ethical people though =3

06-23-2012 05:17 PM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy View Post

 

VB is a great place to discuss the concept of eating non-sentient beings. Questioning does not mean promoting. 

 


Perhaps I'm coming across as militant, but I believe a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere. In an earlier time on VB, the person who wants to eat oysters would have quickly been shown the door. And I suppose it's open to interpretation, but to me it just seems like a backhand way to question veg*nism and justify/promote eating animals.

 

I realize it's up to the mods to decide, but asking such a question on a board dedicated to veg*nism is like..well like that like guy who tried to stop billy goats from crossing a bridge.

06-23-2012 05:02 PM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post


No, I don't want VB to be an exclusive club of existing members. I'm just concerned that term "wider audience" is code for literally everyone and anyone regardless whether or not they are veg*n.

 

Fist it will be open to people who just want to eat oysters, then those who eat any kind of fish, next the welcome mat will be laid out for those who eat free range meat, etc, until this no longer has any vestige of being a veg*n board.

 

To you second point about not finding VB..I honestly find that hard to believe. You are obviously Internet savvy.

 

Type "veggie forum" and the very first hit on Google is VB. hard to miss. Type just about any reasonable search with the word "vegetarian" in it and VB pops up on the first page...

I actually did not find this site when looking for vegetarian kid topics or vegetarian pot pie. But, yeah, I also didn't try very hard. Two sites I found right away were kind of snobby IMO too, which didn't really encourage me to try harder.  

 

As for the fish deal, I figured we were still abiding by the terms of service rules already posted here, which say....

 

"You must be a vegetarian or have a sincere interest in going vegetarian to register and/or post here. This is not just a vegetarian forum, this is a forum for vegetarians.

We obviously can't control what you eat but we can control what you tell us. If you are not currently vegetarian that needs to be your goal. That means no chicken and no fish. Discussion of eating meat, especially with no intention of giving it up, is not appropriate and will result in an immediate ban. 

 

Not acceptable: "I am a vegetarian who still eats chicken/fish!"


Not ok because vegetarians do not eat chicken and/or fish. If you have no desire to give these things up then this site is not for you.

Acceptable: "I want to go vegetarian but I'm having trouble giving up chicken/fish, help!"

 

Ok because you're seeking help in going vegetarian."

 

Perhaps these rules should be easier to find, as they're somewhat hidden within the site. I'd hope that anyone with admin or mod capabilities is made aware of them though, because they clearly define what's going on here. 

06-23-2012 04:48 PM
Poppy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post


No, I don't want VB to be an exclusive club of existing members. I'm just concerned that term "wider audience" is code for literally everyone and anyone regardless whether or not they are veg*n.

 

Fist it will be open to people who just want to eat oysters, then those who eat any kind of fish, next the welcome mat will be laid out for those who eat free range meat, etc, until this no longer has any vestige of being a veg*n board.

 

To you second point about not finding VB..I honestly find that hard to believe. You are obviously Internet savvy.

 

Type "veggie forum" and the very first hit on Google is VB. hard to miss. Type just about any reasonable search with the word "vegetarian" in it and VB pops up on the first page...

 

VB is a great place to discuss the concept of eating non-sentient beings. Questioning does not mean promoting. 

06-23-2012 04:32 PM
4everaspirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 

 

Fist it will be open to people who just want to eat oysters, then those who eat any kind of fish, next the welcome mat will be laid out for those who eat free range meat, etc, until this no longer has any vestige of being a veg*n board.

 

I agree with this part and I could see that happening. I think there needs to be more clear defined lines of what is acceptable here at veggieboards and what is not. People who are interested in becoming a vegetarian are welcome, but people that go vegetarian and want to skimp by the wayside and cheat by consuming oysters or fish will make it so that more people like that come along. People look for convenience and try to see how they can change their lifestyle in the least ways possible, and if that's tolerated in so by eating some animals vegetarianism and even veganism will lose meaning.

06-23-2012 04:22 PM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer C View Post

I was thinking about this comment and wondering if you think "get it out to a wider audienceeis worrisome because maybe that means to a non-veg audience, or if you think the community is the right size as is? Or another reason? I'm just curious. 

 

I eventually found a pot pie recipe, but never found a decent place to chat about my question. I didn't even find this site. I don't know if my Google search was bad or what, but I do know that I would have been pleased to find this site then, not when Huddler contacted me. Maybe others could use a site like this too. That's what I was thinking. 


No, I don't want VB to be an exclusive club of existing members. I'm just concerned that term "wider audience" is code for literally everyone and anyone regardless whether or not they are veg*n.

 

Fist it will be open to people who just want to eat oysters, then those who eat any kind of fish, next the welcome mat will be laid out for those who eat free range meat, etc, until this no longer has any vestige of being a veg*n board.

 

To you second point about not finding VB..I honestly find that hard to believe. You are obviously Internet savvy.

 

Type "veggie forum" and the very first hit on Google is VB. hard to miss. Type just about any reasonable search with the word "vegetarian" in it and VB pops up on the first page...

06-23-2012 03:39 PM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

Hah I guess I had the opposite problem. I lived in Humboldt for a little while and found Eureka/Arcata too small and cut off for my taste. The forests in that area are amazing, though.

I LOVED Humboldt. I'd move back stat, if it wasn't for my son's dad living here (I want him to see his dad). Where did you live? I lived in Samoa which was so darn quiet - all you'd hear is the ocean. So calming. I loved the Farmers' Market in Arcata too, and haven't found one I like more anywhere. Plus, I really like hiking. Like you say, the forests are amazing! In Samoa I was just a small leap away from uncrowded trails. In PDX we have some awesome hiking trails, but they can be really packed.

 

Ah, now I'm totally missing Humboldt :( I'll have to drive down for a visit. 

06-23-2012 03:34 PM
4everaspirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer C View Post

I was thinking about this comment and wondering if you think "get it out to a wider audienceis worrisome because maybe that means to a non-veg audience, or if you think the community is the right size as is? Or another reason? I'm just curious. 

 

What I meant by this comment I made is it would be nice to get the VB noticed by other vegetarian / vegan individuals who may find the site helpful. For example, last year I was looking for a good vegetarian forum because I had a question plus really wanted a veggie pot pie recipe that was actually good. I couldn't find one. I eventually found a pot pie recipe, but never found a decent place to chat about my question. I didn't even find this site. I don't know if my Google search was bad or what, but I do know that I would have been pleased to find this site then, not when Huddler contacted me. Maybe others could use a site like this too. That's what I was thinking. 

 

I would not mind personally getting the word out to more people about this site. If trolls and omnis who just wanna gripe come, they do, and as long as they are managed/ banned at first notice, it should be okay. We already have trolls sometimes now so I don't see why they should stop our efforts for bringing in more veggies that need a place of support. The more veggies that we outreach too the more people that undoubtedly go vegetarian because there is more support ^^ smitten.gif

06-23-2012 03:29 PM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 

Thank you for your replies Jennifer.

 

The bolded text is what concerns me....

I was thinking about this comment and wondering if you think "get it out to a wider audienceis worrisome because maybe that means to a non-veg audience, or if you think the community is the right size as is? Or another reason? I'm just curious. 

 

What I meant by this comment I made is it would be nice to get the VB noticed by other vegetarian / vegan individuals who may find the site helpful. For example, last year I was looking for a good vegetarian forum because I had a question plus really wanted a veggie pot pie recipe that was actually good. I couldn't find one. I eventually found a pot pie recipe, but never found a decent place to chat about my question. I didn't even find this site. I don't know if my Google search was bad or what, but I do know that I would have been pleased to find this site then, not when Huddler contacted me. Maybe others could use a site like this too. That's what I was thinking. 

06-23-2012 03:29 PM
4everaspirit

I think I have learned stuff today about how sites and forums work!!! O_O Interesting!

 

And we know you aren't trying to step on anyone's toes Jennifer! :P I think you will be a very good admin from what you have already said!  rockon.gif
 

06-23-2012 03:13 PM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

to hear endlessly about "the community" here...to be part of it for years...and then without warning have that community sold and exist for profit.  It's a community that now exists only as long as it is profitable for a corporation.

 

Correct, people can go.  But many people who have been around a long time aren't pleased with the way it happened.

I have no idea why this site changed hands. But I've worked for three sites over the years that were eventually sold to new owners so I have some experience with this sort of situation.

 

In one case, a site I worked for was sold, and it 100% sucked because it was sold merely for profit (IMO). All the old writers were fired, "hip" page view type editors were hired, and the site became something entirely new and weird meant to appeal to Google searches (lots of crap "10 ways to please your man" type articles). This site no longer appealed to long-time readers, actually lost traffic at first, until Google kicked in and it was all to make more $ for the new and old owners. 

 

In two other cases though, the sites I worked for were sold because they simply got too big and too hard for one individual to handle. In these cases the motivation (or so the owners told me) was to be able to bring in better advertising, manage the servers which frankly were getting super lagging with heavy traffic, and yet keep on supporting the original goals of the sites for the long-term readers and writers. In these cases, no writers were fired, topics stayed on the mark and having some of those tasks (traffic, ads, back end servers and design) managed by a new team, allowed the old owners and writers much more free time to focus on content and reader happiness.

 

It can be extremely time intensive and hard to run a website, especially once it becomes popular, so I get why folks often sell or merge with a corporation that manages sites. One of my most favorite forums ever shut down a couple of years ago, and it was because the owner couldn't handle the time or costs anymore. I wish that site had been sold to someone else willing to manage it, because I miss it all the time. But having been through a bad site sale too, I also see where stuff can go really wrong when a site changes hands, so I get the concerns.   

 

Overall, I wanted to say that I really appreciate how honest everyone has been in this thread. I know not everyone is happy with some of the new VB decisions, but in terms of getting a feel for this community, it's been very helpful to read folks concerns.

 

Also, just on an FYI sort of note to everyone here, I think making me an admin is less about me changing the feel or content of the site and more about me being able to get into the back end of the site so I can help promote the best content, manage spam and that sort of clerical stuff, some of which I'd need admin access to do.

 

The social media component I'm supposed to help out with is not meant to be intrusive either but to help support efforts to one, grow the community (which I sense not everyone is on board with, but it would be nice if more vegetarians/vegans could easily find this site) and two, to give the site more solid standing on places like Facebook and Twitter and such, for community members who may find that useful or fun. 

 

Anyway, I wanted everyone to know that I feel like I'm here to help out, but also to learn new things about vegetarian / vegan issues myself, not take anything over or step on anyone's toes. 

06-23-2012 01:01 PM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'IckenNoodleSoup View Post
Still, I haven't been here long enough...

to hear endlessly about "the community" here...to be part of it for years...and then without warning have that community sold and exist for profit.  It's a community that now exists only as long as it is profitable for a corporation.

 

Correct, people can go.  But many people who have been around a long time aren't pleased with the way it happened.

06-23-2012 12:28 PM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer C View Post
This said, I was under the impression that Huddler is very proud of this site and its content. At least that's the vibe I got when I talked with them - it was all, "There's excellent content there" and "The community is great." I personally haven't heard one word about plans to change the site in a topical sense. What I have heard is that they'd like to promote the content and get it out to a wider audience in order to help the community thrive. 

 

Thank you for your replies Jennifer.

 

The bolded text is what concerns me....

06-23-2012 11:02 AM
Move of Ten
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer C View Post

Hi cornsail - Portland is awesome, although it's gotten a little overcrowded for me. I was spoiled by a few years in Humboldt (peace and quiet).

Hah I guess I had the opposite problem. I lived in Humboldt for a little while and found Eureka/Arcata too small and cut off for my taste. The forests in that area are amazing, though.

06-23-2012 10:39 AM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by cornsail View Post

Hi, Jennifer.

 

I was fortunate enough to visit Portland a couple summers back and I love it. I am way jealous of you for living there. Though I'm sure the rainy season has its downsides.

 

Anyway, I hope you and VB come to get along.

Hi cornsail - Portland is awesome, although it's gotten a little overcrowded for me. I was spoiled by a few years in Humboldt (peace and quiet).

 

As for the rain - it's gray and pouring outside right this very second (I'm on my back porch) and I love it. If it rained year-round I'd be 100% fine with it. I went to college in New Mexico and after growing up in Oregon I got seriously depressed living with the sun in NM all the time. It was like the opposite of seasonal affect disorder. I guess I'm a rain person. 

 

Thanks for the welcome :) 

06-23-2012 10:32 AM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 

Over-react much?

 

stalking.jpg

Re: this whole "stalking" deal - in defense of Beancounter, If you're a freelance writer, with enough work under your belt, you're super easy to find via Google. If I was going to hire someone for my own green site, I'd look them up this way as well, to make sure they weren't writing about how recycling sucks or the benefits of bleach at other sites. 

 

The guy who sent me hate email after hate email about how I should shut up about global warming was super iffy and bordering on stalking. The gal who followed me all over online and sent all my editors emails about hating me after she disagreed with an organic gardening piece I wrote was seriously insane and scary crazed. But, just looking someone up isn't the same. 

Just wanted to say that stalking and searching are very different. Look me up if you like. Or ask me who I've written for - I don't mind. It's not like I'm hiding a secret pro-hunting website past. 

06-23-2012 10:12 AM
Jennifer C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 

OK, I guess I was beating around the bush, but I'll be direct.

 

Years ago I used to buy every Moosewood collective veg cook book that came out. Then sometime in the mid or late 90's during the fish oil craze, they started including fish recipes. Simply they saw an opportunity to make more money, so they compromised their principles.

 

If huddler decides that it's more profitable to turn VB into a generalized health forum which includes meat, will you continue to promote the site, or will you resign in protest?
 

Me too - re the Moosewood books. I had all of them too at first, and I'd recommend them as the best veggie cookbooks to people I knew. Then they came out with that Sunday cookbook (I think that was the one) and it was so weird because it had fish in it. I didn't know their decision had to do with cash though, I never knew why they changed. 

 

If Huddler changed and wanted me to still work with a site, it would depend on what the topic of the site was and if I could offer my own opinions freely. I don't just work for sites that are meat-free, but I wouldn't work for a site that forces me write about the benefits of meat as if I believe in it. If editor at one of my sites was like,"Hey can you write a post about the 10 best healthy beef dishes for kids" or "Why hunting rocks" I'd decline - that's not something I could write honestly about. 

 

For example, I write for Inhabitots, a green parenting site. We had a post there - "How do you feed your kids - Omni, Veg or Vegan?" so, meat comes up and I know we have readers who eat meat. I write for them though because although meat is in the mix, they would never make me write about meat benefits. The posts I write about food there cover vegetarian issues, organics, food safety and so on, such as protein for vegetarian tots, veg and vegan recipes, why meat antibiotics are bad news, etc. 

 

SheKnows had tons of meat recipes on their cooking site, but over at their pregnancy site, where I worked, the editors 100% let me write my own stuff like how to have a vegetarian pregnancy, raise veggie kids, vitamins for vegan moms and so on. b5, another site I wrote for had meat stuff going on too, but over at my section of the site (tree hugging family) I was busy writing posts about why you shouldn't eat meat and tips for vegetarians.

 

My issue with a site or publication would not be that the site has discussed something I'm not on board with, but that they'd make me write about it as if it was my own opinion, if that makes sense. For example, a few years ago I had to quit one client's site because they assigned me some pro-gambling articles. I HATE gambling and am not on board with it at all, which I told my editor. When she said, "Do it anyway," I gave my notice. I quit another site when an editor kept trying to force me to write some pro-doctor piece about how midwifery isn't safe (I like midwives). 

 

I would work for a health site that covers health issues I believe in, but not one entirely focused on stuff I don't agree with like that nutty paleo diet. 

 

This said, I was under the impression that Huddler is very proud of this site and its content. At least that's the vibe I got when I talked with them - it was all, "There's excellent content there" and "The community is great." I personally haven't heard one word about plans to change the site in a topical sense. What I have heard is that they'd like to promote the content and get it out to a wider audience in order to help the community thrive. 

06-23-2012 09:45 AM
AlainWinthrope
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'IckenNoodleSoup View Post

You may be right about WWgrl, however 'We', ie: those who drop-in here, don't own the joint. The owner gets to decide how he wants the place run. It's no more a democracy on a discussion board like this than it's a democracy at a privately owned cafe.

My mistake for thinking we had any say in the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

Over-react much?

how'd you find her facebook?
06-23-2012 09:12 AM
Plant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beancounter View Post

 

Over-react much?

No, I just thought what you did was creepy. Still do.

06-23-2012 08:04 AM
Beancounter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plant View Post

What other forums? Are you stalking her? Creepy.

 

Over-react much?

 

stalking.jpg

06-23-2012 07:58 AM
'IckenNoodleSoup
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlainWinthrope View Post

This whole thing kind of stinks to me. We should just make WerewolfGirl the Admin. She does more for the forum than anyone else.
i love you guys

 

You may be right about WWgrl, however 'We', ie: those who drop-in here, don't own the joint. The owner gets to decide how he wants the place run. It's no more a democracy on a discussion board like this than it's a democracy at a privately owned cafe. What those who frequent the joint do have the right to do, is go elsewhere if that's what pleases them.

 

If Michael got tired of doing this, he could simply shut it down tomorrow (and I've belonged to boards where that HAS happened). As it is, he's passed the affair over to someone else he feels has the relevent skill base to make it an independently viable entity, economically in particular.

 

From what I've seen of Huddler, they've been quite sensitive to the particular concerns of this board in allocating a vegetarian admin. The only thing still needing sorting out is the advertising. There are plenty of advertisers who could benefit from the audience this space provides, and it could all be pretty mutually beneficial in the longer run. But it seems they're working on that and from what I understand, the way it works is that appropriate ads will be self generated, as the software gradually learns what users like and don't like to click on.

 

Still, I haven't been here long enough to have claimed my own special seat in the corner by the window and my own special mug with spiderman on. And as a fairly new member, so far I'm impressed by the attractive lay-out, the reviews feature, the fact that Huddler have allocated a vegetarian admin and the fact they've made it clear that they're working on the ad issue (as well as offering anyone who requests it, an ad free option).

 

It smells of damp earth after a recent rainfall to me, maybe with some indeterminate but mildly pleasant vegetal aromas.

 

 

ETA: Having said all that, I do think it would have been courteous if those who currently volunteer time, effort and cash to help maintain the running of the place, had been consulted prior to implementing the change over. And I can appreciate it if such parties feel that their efforts and opinions have been disregarded.

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