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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-05-2012 01:47 AM
happyhippy
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

That had to have been a painful post to write.


Sorry about what happened to you.

Your husband should be sitting in a prison cell, IMO.


Thank you das_nut it really, really was.

 

I felt it was important to clarify the situation and hopefully restore my credibility on the board.

06-04-2012 06:42 PM
nogardsram
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

there are at least 800 planned parenthood locations across the country, and they are in every state according to planned parenthoods on web site. so just because there is not one in every county doesn't mean they don't have access to abortions..... what would you prefer they were like starbucks. one on every other corner?

 

just because a county of 5000 people doesn't have an abortion clinic doesn't mean access to an abortion is denied or inaccessable. You still haven't shown anywhere that access to an abortion is not accessable.

 

Not all Planned Parenthood clinics provide abortions and Planned Parenthood clinics are not the only providers of abortions.

 

However, who said women do not have access? (although, access will depend on people's situations)  Didn't Irizary state that "...since women can choose to get abortions (if they have access, which is a big if)..." It sounds to me like people have to make the claim that women have access.  She was pointing out that it's an 'if'. 

 

ETA:  This is not an abortion thread.  Can we stick to the topic?

06-04-2012 05:42 PM
havocjohn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gib View Post

Across the country, 87% of U.S. counties had no abortion provider in 2005, and as noted in the national report card, 35% of women live in these underserved counties. Poor access to abortion services is a particular concern in rural communities. In 2005, 97% of non-metropolitan counties had no abortion provider.

 

http://hrc.nwlc.org/status-indicators/women-county-without-abortion-provider

 

I would guess there are even fewer providers today.

there are at least 800 planned parenthood locations across the country, and they are in every state according to planned parenthoods on web site. so just because there is not one in every county doesn't mean they don't have access to abortions..... what would you prefer they were like starbucks. one on every other corner?

 

just because a county of 5000 people doesn't have an abortion clinic doesn't mean access to an abortion is denied or inaccessable. You still haven't shown anywhere that access to an abortion is not accessable.

06-04-2012 05:24 PM
Gib
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

please cite the areas in the United States where women don't have access to getting an abortion if they choose to get one.

Across the country, 87% of U.S. counties had no abortion provider in 2005, and as noted in the national report card, 35% of women live in these underserved counties. Poor access to abortion services is a particular concern in rural communities. In 2005, 97% of non-metropolitan counties had no abortion provider.

 

http://hrc.nwlc.org/status-indicators/women-county-without-abortion-provider

 

I would guess there are even fewer providers today.

06-04-2012 05:15 PM
vegkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by havocjohn View Post

please cite the areas in the United States where women don't have access to getting an abortion if they choose to get one.

Switzerland.

06-04-2012 05:09 PM
havocjohn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

 

 

I am really confused about what you're saying.  It sounds as though you're agreeing with CG that since women can choose to get abortions (if they have access, which is a big if) that they are solely responsible for children - and if men don't want to be fathers financially or emotionally they should get to walk away, since they didn't make the choice to give birth. 

 

But then it sounds like you're upset that your husband agreed with that position.

 

I'm not sure what your position is.

please cite the areas in the United States where women don't have access to getting an abortion if they choose to get one.

06-04-2012 05:01 PM
vegkid

Woah.

 

This is quickly becoming the new abortion thread.


Insults abound!

06-04-2012 12:17 PM
danakscully64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post

 

There actually is a homosexual analogy that can be drawn from this thread with regard to HIV and unprotected sex, and there even exists a small subset of the gay population who intentionally have unprotected sex to try and get the disease (it's called getting 'pregnant' by some).  I have refrained from bringing this up because I would never want to equate child-bearing to disease.  But since this thread has gone totally to sh-t anyway I thought it might be important to mention that this isn't a gender issue with me.  There are tons of folks out there, male and female alike, who are ready and willing to have unprotected sex, knowing that the consequences of their actions will be paid for by the taxpayer... and that's what chafes my ass more than anything.

 

You mean, you won't pay for me to pop out a bunch of kids? Why not?

06-04-2012 11:36 AM
Digger
Quote:
Originally Posted by penny79 View Post

LOL, even for people who only have homosexual sex?
 

 

There actually is a homosexual analogy that can be drawn from this thread with regard to HIV and unprotected sex, and there even exists a small subset of the gay population who intentionally have unprotected sex to try and get the disease (it's called getting 'pregnant' by some).  I have refrained from bringing this up because I would never want to equate child-bearing to disease.  But since this thread has gone totally to sh-t anyway I thought it might be important to mention that this isn't a gender issue with me.  There are tons of folks out there, male and female alike, who are ready and willing to have unprotected sex, knowing that the consequences of their actions will be paid for by the taxpayer... and that's what chafes my ass more than anything.

06-04-2012 05:33 AM
leedsveg
Quote:
Originally Posted by danakscully64 View Post

 

I agree.


Me too.

06-03-2012 09:27 PM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post

 

I think that plain and simple logic is being applied here. If we accept the premise that..

 

  possession of a uterus gives a woman the sole responsibility for the choice of whether to continue a pregnancy or not

 

then we must also accept that..

 

a woman is solely responsible for the product of the choice that was made solely by her.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post


His first words I recall were along the lines of 'oh **** what are you going to do?'...

 

We attempted to talk and he again asked what was I going to do and he felt it was really nothing to do with him much as I had made it clear I wanted to end the marriage. He told me he had no money to support a child if I chose to carry on the pregnancy alone but he would think about 'forgiving me all the stupidity about divorcing him ' and might take me back as long as I toed the line and became a proper wife again. If I would not come home and 'behave' then he would find out how much an abortion would cost and we could get one done as soon as possible without anyone knowing as he had no intention of paying a penny more than an abortion cost if I did not come home.


So then.. I made my choice...'

 

I am really confused about what you're saying.  It sounds as though you're agreeing with CG that since women can choose to get abortions (if they have access, which is a big if) that they are solely responsible for children - and if men don't want to be fathers financially or emotionally they should get to walk away, since they didn't make the choice to give birth. 

 

But then it sounds like you're upset that your husband agreed with that position.

 

I'm not sure what your position is.

06-03-2012 08:40 PM
danakscully64
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

That had to have been a painful post to write.


Sorry about what happened to you.

Your husband should be sitting in a prison cell, IMO.

 

I agree.

06-03-2012 08:30 PM
das_nut

That had to have been a painful post to write.


Sorry about what happened to you.

Your husband should be sitting in a prison cell, IMO.

06-03-2012 07:22 PM
happyhippy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

 

It should tell you that a pregnant rape victim was dealing with her rapist.

 

That should be enough to make it clear that Hippy's previous account of her experience of being bullied and coerced (as opposed to the one of rationaly and maturely discussing options with a reasonable human being) was the account with greater truth.

 

The human mind will try to rewrite that which makes no sense into that which does make sense from time to time.

 

Being raped and then having to 'negotiate' with your rapist, who is also the father of previous children conceived in love, is a bit of a 'mind bender' at best. Would you not think?

 

Git is right and I feel a bit of a prat now !! blush.gif

 

I can only apologise for presenting two different versions of the same event. I can only deduce that I did this because I was lying to myself about something so ugly I needed to sanitise it. Sounds lame I know but I am trying to be honest here.  I am sorry.

 

I think in my head I wanted this second version to be the truth because it is how I would have expected the man who was the father of my children and my husband of fifteen years to have behaved. I thought I knew him and I thought we did share the same values.  But then I would also have expected him not to have raped me with my son sleeping in the bed next to me. I expected our shared values to have made such an action unthinkable. So I truthfully said we sat down and talked and that was the way I wished it had gone.

 

At the time I was raped I was having to pacify a male friend who was intent on going to the police, I was shocked and numb and concerned only with preventing my childrenand my parents from finding out what my husband had done.

 

When I found out I was pregnant it moved into a whole new area and my world was turned upside down. My children had been prepared for our separation and my son in particular was having problems dealing that bombshell.  To announce to them that their father was a rapist or to pretend that the pregnancy was wanted and was an indication that we were making up only to later crush him with the news we were not, were  options I did not want to contemplate. 

 

So..(the correct part of the story) I did approach my husband to discuss it with him.

 

His first words I recall were along the lines of 'oh **** what are you going to do?' Hard to be delivered these lines from a cold glaring face. Especially bearing in my mind that this was the man who I had three times before rushed to tell I was pregnant beaming all over my face. And this was the man who I had cried to when one of pregnancy had ended in miscarriage

 

Git is right it was a mind f****.

 

Your rapist doesnt normally hang around long enough to see the results of his abuse but here I was sitting facing my rapist in a room where photos of him cuddling my babies were all over the walls.

 

My husband is Asian (relevant only to the extent that it explains cultural attitude to rape and divorce)

 

We attempted to talk and he again asked what was I going to do and he felt it was really nothing to do with him much as I had made it clear I wanted to end the marriage. He told me he had no money to support a child if I chose to carry on the pregnancy alone but he would think about 'forgiving me all the stupidity about divorcing him ' and might take me back as long as I toed the line and became a proper wife again. If I would not come home and 'behave' then he would find out how much an abortion would cost and we could get one done as soon as possible without anyone knowing as he had no intention of paying a penny more than an abortion cost if I did not come home.

 

I cannot put into words hows it feels to sit opposite someone who you have shared all the intimacies of parenthood with and witness them coldly discussing the abortion of your next child.

 

To return to the marriage was not a viable option, my husband had driven us out with repeated and prolonged bouts of depression and paranoia. His behaviour was erratic and my daughter had begged me in the final days to 'get us out of this madness. I would not put them back through that again. I knew that he would not support the child because to do so after our divorce would announce to the world what he had done if we clearly were not together.

 

So then (to get back on topic) .. he made his choice. Either I accept his ultimatium or I was on my own.

 

I was then in a position where I had two children who had already been victims of years of emotional abuse and completely f**** up and whom I could not condemn to more years , an unborn child who I already cared enough about not to put through the same experience and bugger all in the bank. I had not got to grips with being raped by my own husband let alone being pregnant as a result . The lunacy of contemplating an abortion following the experience of a late miscarriage a few years before added to the madness.

 

So..there we were quick quick quick!!!!! me approaching eight weeks, nine weeks  GP pushing to get me booked in, husband cold and uncompromising, me raped, broke and scared with no one to unravel the crap or talk me through other options. I panicked I could not see other options in that state.

 

So then.. I made my choice. My husband kindly drove me there. Bless him. Driven to the abortion clinic by your rapist pretty bizzare eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

'

06-03-2012 12:39 PM
das_nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

Most likely not.

 

What we are definitely dealing with here is the refusal, by women, of a birth control option available only to women.

 

But in this case, everyone involved appeared to have taken the same amount of inaction towards preventing the birth of a child.

06-03-2012 11:19 AM
leedsveg

The man is an idiot and the women are idiots. Why should other people have to pay for the actions of idiots?

 

Trying to apportion exact culpability plays into the hands (and same old tiresome agenda) of any marauding trolls.

06-03-2012 03:17 AM
Clueless Git
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

But as I said before, in this case, odds are we aren't dealing with contraception that failed, due to the sheer amount of kids this man has.

Most likely not.

 

What we are definitely dealing with here is the refusal, by women, of a birth control option available only to women.

06-03-2012 03:04 AM
Clueless Git
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

 

What should this tell me?  The guy found a woman who was willing to sit down with him and make a joint decision about an abortion (with the option of raising the child himself if that wasn't acceptable).  This tells me that if men choose a partner with similar values, they can have plenty of choice after conception.

 

It should tell you that a pregnant rape victim was dealing with her rapist.

 

That should be enough to make it clear that Hippy's previous account of her experience of being bullied and coerced (as opposed to the one of rationaly and maturely discussing options with a reasonable human being) was the account with greater truth.

 

The human mind will try to rewrite that which makes no sense into that which does make sense from time to time.

 

Being raped and then having to 'negotiate' with your rapist, who is also the father of previous children conceived in love, is a bit of a 'mind bender' at best. Would you not think?

06-03-2012 02:45 AM
Clueless Git
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forster View Post


It's not a double standard though. Biology dictates that the female has the final say in carrying a pregnancy to term, our (men's) role/choice/say in the matter is over once the egg is fertilized and implanted. It's just the way it is.

You are confusing biology with technology there Forster.

 

Biology dictates that only women are up poo creek without a paddle after conception.

 

It is technology that allows for abortion, a post conception option, to exist.

 

 

Quote:

The argument that because women have the final say in carrying a fetus to term somehow relieves men from financial obligation for the child is IMO tenuous at best.

 

Whoever has the 'final say' on any given matter has exclusive authority on any given matter.

 

The argument that exclusive authority should be divorced from exclusive responsibilty is simple a complete reversal of any principle of justice.

 

 

Quote:

The alternatives are worse.

 

There are no worse alternatives worse than reversing principles of fairness, equality and justice matey. There really aren't.

06-02-2012 04:12 PM
Pixie
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post
I called it marital rape on this and the other thread Pixie because rape is exactly what it was.

 

Rape is rape and I'm not making any comment about that. I meant that you had two completely different stories about your abortion as you firstly said that you were forced to abort by an abusive partner and then you had a different story about sitting down with your abusive partner and having a discussion about what to do and that you both came to a decision for you to have a termination. I'm just repeating the stories you have told on here. I have no idea what is truthful and what is not but clearly one of your stories must be a lie as they contradict one another.

06-02-2012 04:00 PM
happyhippy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixie View Post

I wouldn't make a serious allegation of rape about someone while I was on a public forum and then present two wildly different versions of the events unless I wanted to make people think I was lying.

 

 

    I called it marital rape on this and the other thread Pixie because rape is exactly what it was.

06-02-2012 03:51 PM
danakscully64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forster View Post


It's not a double standard though. Biology dictates that the female has the final say in carrying a pregnancy to term, our (men's) role/choice/say in the matter is over once the egg is fertilized and implanted. It's just the way it is. The argument that because women have the final say in carrying a fetus to term somehow relieves men from financial obligation for the child is IMO tenuous at best.
The alternatives are worse. Alternative one is that the man can force a woman to abort "his" child or alternative two that a man should be able to shirk the financial responsibility to support a human child that he did in fact help create.


notworthy.gif Thank you for that post.

06-02-2012 02:45 PM
Forster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

Still a double standard unless applied equaly to men and to women Forster?

I am fast becoming aware that the vast majority of people here have absolutely no problem with that, mind you.

It's not a double standard though. Biology dictates that the female has the final say in carrying a pregnancy to term, our (men's) role/choice/say in the matter is over once the egg is fertilized and implanted. It's just the way it is. The argument that because women have the final say in carrying a fetus to term somehow relieves men from financial obligation for the child is IMO tenuous at best.

The alternatives are worse. Alternative one is that the man can force a woman to abort "his" child or alternative two that a man should be able to shirk the financial responsibility to support a human child that he did in fact help create.
06-02-2012 02:36 PM
leedsveg
Quote:
Originally Posted by das_nut View Post

Well, it seems to be harder than I thought for a man to get contraceptives.

 

But as I said before, in this case, odds are we aren't dealing with contraception that failed, due to the sheer amount of kids this man has.

 

Give me a case where a condom broke or a vasectomy reversed itself, and I'll be far more sympathetic towards the parents having to support a child they accidentally had.


thumbsup.gif

06-02-2012 02:23 PM
das_nut

Well, it seems to be harder than I thought for a man to get contraceptives.

 

But as I said before, in this case, odds are we aren't dealing with contraception that failed, due to the sheer amount of kids this man has.

 

Give me a case where a condom broke or a vasectomy reversed itself, and I'll be far more sympathetic towards the parents having to support a child they accidentally had.

06-02-2012 12:22 PM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

 

Does it not tell you anything that the man, the father, in question was a marital rapist?

 

What should this tell me?  The guy found a woman who was willing to sit down with him and make a joint decision about an abortion (with the option of raising the child himself if that wasn't acceptable).  This tells me that if men choose a partner with similar values, they can have plenty of choice after conception.

06-02-2012 11:34 AM
Clueless Git
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

That clearly depends on if the man chooses a woman with similar values to himself.  It sounds as though the father above had some say in the matter.

 

Does it not tell you anything that the man, the father, in question was a marital rapist?

06-02-2012 11:21 AM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyhippy View Post
WE both chose whether to abort.. It was a grave and difficult situation deserving of responsible decisions by responsible adults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless Git View Post

We all know full well that the father is not allowed an opinion on abortion as he does not have a uterus.

That clearly depends on if the man chooses a woman with similar values to himself.  It sounds as though the father above had some say in the matter.

06-02-2012 11:09 AM
Clueless Git
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbleforlola View Post

Like I said, I am no longer engaging with you.

We were never engaged in the first place Kibble.

06-02-2012 10:58 AM
Kibbleforlola Like I said, I am no longer engaging with you. You want to *******ize my user name even after I expressly asked you not to (a blatant sign of disrespect)? Fine. You want to insist we are "friends", even through the sight of your posting makes want to vomit? Fine. Live in your fantasy world where you are king and women put up with your noxious sh!t.

When I was in Afghanistan, I met a lot of men with your attitude. Men who wanted to be "friends" with me, even though they could barely disguise their contempt for women. So I started to carry a knife.
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