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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-14-2012 07:11 PM
Pirate Huntress
Quote:
Originally Posted by paperhanger View Post



Just FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capon

er, is it bad to neuter them?..

09-14-2012 10:32 AM
hollywoodveg We have two hens, and love them so very much. They eat organic grass clippings from our yard and organic crumble. I also feed them greens from my garden, and healthy leftovers. They have a plush life and are super happy.
05-31-2012 03:24 PM
draconian

I don't want to start down that slippery slope of thinking of animals as food dispensing machines.

05-31-2012 02:53 PM
Irizary
Quote:
Originally Posted by affidavit View Post

And it isn't hard to have just one rooster without killing the rest- I gave two of mine away earlier in the year, because I didn't need them fighting with my older rooster and only had a small flock of hen besides. They went to someone who raised that breed of chicken and was worried about his gene pool.

They went to someone who raised them for what?  Pets?  And if not, then aren't you contributing to killing of these animals down the line?

 

It reminds me of people who say they will drink milk because the cow isn't killed for it.  But there is plenty of death and suffering down the line that that the procurement of that milk is responsible for.

05-31-2012 02:24 PM
Almeria

Besides all the ethics of using chickens for eggs... Eggs really smell when you cook them.  We never noticed it when we ate eggs but after keeping a vegan kitchen for about a year and a half and rarely going to someone else's house when they'd be cooking dinner, we were pretty shocked by how bad eggs smell when you cook them.  We've got rescue chickens also and we boil their eggs and feed them back to the chickens.  The whole house stinks for about an hour afterwards to us. 

 

I've had people ask me for our chicken eggs since we don't eat them and I don't give them away because I refuse to encourage people to see them as something to use instead of someone with their own lives to live that deserve to just be left alone for once. I pretty much tell them that, not in those worse exactly but I do explain to them why we don't give away the eggs.  We've taken in chickens to provide them safe and comfortable places to live where they'll get good food, lots of space to roam, healthcare, etc just like we do with our dogs that are also all rescues.  We don't ask anything from the dogs so why would we expect the chickens to do anything either besides be themselves and do their own thing.

05-31-2012 04:44 AM
Diana
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlironbrave View Post

Since I'm a vegan, I don't eat eggs. Also not eggs from hens from someones backyard, because if everyone buys hens and NO roosters, the roosters are still going to be killed.

My question: what would be against eating eggs that you got from someone who has 50% hens and 50% roosters in his backyard?

Thanks.

No-one has 50% hens and 50% roosters in his backyard. This kind of question is of the same kind as "what would you do if you were on a desert island and there was only a cow to eat".

 

The questions should be "are animals resources and our property"? "Do we want animal liberation or not?". "Do we want an end to animal exploitation?".

 

We have a responsiblity to the animals which have unfortunately for them been domesticated over the centuries. But responsibility doesn't mean that we have a right to exploit them.

 

Okay after all that, let's watch Steven the Vegan again to lighten things up a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMpHF2a-IJY

05-20-2012 11:30 AM
soilman
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

The farming industry is older than factory farming, though. Selective breeding isn't any new concept, for sure.

That's the same thing I just said. Animal husbandry has produced chickens that lay unnatural numbers of eggs, even before the advent of factory farming.

We generally refer to farming that occurred before factory farming, as just simply farming, or agriculture, rather than as "the farming industry," and until recently farming and industry had long been considered 2 distinct entities. Small family farms in many parts of the world are still not considered an "industry" either, except in the general sense of the word, where any activity we engage in for the purpose of surviving, is "industry."

What did you mean by "common hens" anyway? While some chickens are bred for egg laying, and some for meat production, they are related cultivars, and I suspect that even chickens bred for maximum meat, or their female counterparts (some chicken meat comes from castrated males) produce unnatural numbers of eggs.
05-20-2012 11:02 AM
vegkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilman View Post

Chickens have been bred for 1000's of years to produce many times more eggs than their wild relatives, and recent innovations have upped the number even higher. Modern chickens are so divorced from their wild relatives, for so long, that we don't even have a good concept of what wild birds were their wild ancestors. The trail has gone so cold, that the identity of their wild ancestors is a matter that requires focus by scientific investigation, rather than a matter that historians can tell us. For some organisms, we can make a good guess as to what wild relatives we must have bred them from. But not chickens. There is lots of agreement among geneticists, on many husbanded organisms. But not chickens. Geneticists just make hypotheses; there isn't any consensus.

so yes, even before modern factory farming, chickens were passing unnatural numbers of eggs through their cloacas (see the chicken poetry thread).

The farming industry is older than factory farming, though. Selective breeding isn't any new concept, for sure.
05-20-2012 10:30 AM
soilman
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegkid View Post

Farm Sanctuary crushes up the eggs and feeds them back to the hens. Then again, the hens they take in need the extra nutrients because they have basically been programmed by the farming industry to flush tons of vital nutrients from their bodies through excessive egg-laying. It might not be the same for common hens.

Chickens have been bred for 1000's of years to produce many times more eggs than their wild relatives, and recent innovations have upped the number even higher. Modern chickens are so divorced from their wild relatives, for so long, that we don't even have a good concept of what wild birds were their wild ancestors. The trail has gone so cold, that the identity of their wild ancestors is a matter that requires focus by scientific investigation, rather than a matter that historians can tell us. For some organisms, we can make a good guess as to what wild relatives we must have bred them from. But not chickens. There is lots of agreement among geneticists, on many husbanded organisms. But not chickens. Geneticists just make hypotheses; there isn't any consensus.

so yes, even before modern factory farming, chickens were passing unnatural numbers of eggs through their cloacas (see the chicken poetry thread).
05-20-2012 09:01 AM
vegkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asteracea View Post

I think it's great idea for ovo-vegs or meat-eaters to raise their own hens for eggs. My parents seriously thought about getting hens last weekend, but that was only because my mom wants me to eat eggs. I supported them getting the hens (they didn't) because I want THEM to eat their eggs over battery hen eggs or those fishy "free-range" eggs, but I told my mom I wouldn't eat them. I think it's gross to eat eggs.

If I ever, down the line, rescue some bettery hens who are still fertile, I don't know what I'd do with their eggs. Give them to the neighbors, I guess.

Farm Sanctuary crushes up the eggs and feeds them back to the hens. Then again, the hens they take in need the extra nutrients because they have basically been programmed by the farming industry to flush tons of vital nutrients from their bodies through excessive egg-laying. It might not be the same for common hens.
05-20-2012 04:45 AM
Asteracea I think it's great idea for ovo-vegs or meat-eaters to raise their own hens for eggs. My parents seriously thought about getting hens last weekend, but that was only because my mom wants me to eat eggs. I supported them getting the hens (they didn't) because I want THEM to eat their eggs over battery hen eggs or those fishy "free-range" eggs, but I told my mom I wouldn't eat them. I think it's gross to eat eggs.

If I ever, down the line, rescue some bettery hens who are still fertile, I don't know what I'd do with their eggs. Give them to the neighbors, I guess.
05-18-2012 03:16 PM
soilman ElaineV

Quote:
Those hens and roosters are going to need a lot of stuff - nesting supplies, feed, perching ladders and whatnot. And they need TLC whenever the weather changes or there's an illness or injury. Are you really so in love with eggs that you want to spend that much time, effort, and money to produce "humane" eggs? Might there be something else you enjoy more (like a trip to Paris or a convertible)?

But really, if someone is eating any eggs from their own backyard hens I'm just not going to waste my time on them. There are higher priorities. The millions of factory farmed hens need my advocacy more.

You could say the same thing about owning a dog or a cat. And you know what - that's pretty much how I feel about owning a dog or a cat. Owining a dog or a cat is time consuming. Do I really need companionship so much, that I wan tto spend that much time, effort, and money, to produce a loyal companion? The millions of factory farmed animals need my advocacy more. And there are millions of people who could be my companion, many of whom are able to take care of themselves and don't need to be cared for like children, past childhood and into adulthood and their whole lives.

I was told I mustn't ressurect old thread to talk about chicken anatomy. So I'll start another thread for my poem about chicken anatomy. And physiology.
09-06-2011 09:45 PM
penny79 Nah, but I would encourage anyone getting storebought "cage-free" or "regular factory" eggs to do so, not supporting a hatchery, though - a rescue of some sort.

Personally have no desire to eat eggs.
09-06-2011 09:35 PM
paperhanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by disney.jessica View Post

I wonder if you could spay a chicken or neuter a rooster? Then you could rescue a few ladies and be able to keep them with a rescued male if you could somehow get rescued chickens without them reproducing so fast with the fertilized eggs. I assume a spayed chicken would not lay eggs anymore.


Just FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capon
09-05-2011 02:36 PM
Apocalyptica
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlironbrave View Post

About the 50 - 50 %-thing: For me, the main problem with eating eggs is that most of the roosters get killed in the process of producing eggs. If I'm only keeping hens in my backyard, I'm still part of my main problem, because if everyone does this, there still have to be people getting rid of all the roosters. So by having 50 % roosters 50 % hens, *at least* I would not be guilty of that.

I would think the best solution is to adopt battery hens, as Misty does. My understanding is that most rescues start laying again once they are in good health and not feeling such stress due to their living conditions. That way you aren't directly supporting the people who 'produce' the baby chicks and kill the males. And if you still want roosters, you may be able to adopt some of the babies that would have been culled. I know this doesn't answer any of your questions about roosters and hens living together, but I think it is the most ethical way of owning chickens (so that you aren't supporting the breeders).

I can't wait to own my own house so I can adopt battery hens, and I think I will give the eggs to other people who already eat eggs, so that it reduces their need to buy eggs from the store that aren't produced ethically. Some sanctuaries also feed them back to the hens to help with the strain on their bodies that is due to being bred to lay way more eggs than they naturally would.
09-05-2011 08:54 AM
CindyLennyCleo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty View Post

Disney Jessica, they are so sad when they first come to me. Scared, ohh so bald ( they nearly look like they have been plucked for eating, but still have heads and move, just.) They need food and water right in front of them because they just don't understand freedom and choice. It takes them a few weeks to get on their feet properly and a few months to regrow their feathers, at first they look like porcupine quills. They are such a joy though, to watch them recover and finally have freedom.

Soz for going off topic too.

That sounds amazing! I'd love to do that some day!
09-05-2011 08:32 AM
nogardsram
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlironbrave View Post

One can of course think of other objections and that's what I asked for in my original post.

What's the need to view any animal as a resource to be used by humans? We, as humans, do not require eggs for anything other than taste, for pleasure.
09-05-2011 02:57 AM
marlironbrave
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

I read the entire thread and I do no think the OP answered any of the questions ElaineV asked. So no, I don't think they have been addressed.

--

As for:



What would it matter if someone has 50% hens and 50% roosters in their backyard with respect to the relevancy of eating their eggs?

I consider ElaineV's questions to be rhetorical by the way. Just issues one may want to think about. And that's basically what I ask for.

About the 50 - 50 %-thing: For me, the main problem with eating eggs is that most of the roosters get killed in the process of producing eggs. If I'm only keeping hens in my backyard, I'm still part of my main problem, because if everyone does this, there still have to be people getting rid of all the roosters. So by having 50 % roosters 50 % hens, *at least* I would not be guilty of that.
One can of course think of other objections and that's what I asked for in my original post.

Marl
09-05-2011 02:48 AM
LedBoots To see if an egg is fertile, you can 'candle' it by shining a flashlight at the egg. If you see a dark spot, it is fertile. I don't know how early you can see it though. I don't eat eggs but remember learning this.
09-05-2011 02:33 AM
marlironbrave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty View Post

Which pretty much means, they only have to mate once and the hen will lay fertile eggs for a good week. You can't tell if an egg is fertilized just by looking at it. Hatch rate would depend on the broodiness of the chickens, the hatch rate can be pretty high, usually only defective eggs or eggs that get too cold at a vital time don't hatch.
You can't keep a bunch of roosters together, either with or without hens without a fair bit of fighting.

Ok, thanks. I also understand that 1) hens only brood a part of the year, 2) that this is usually during spring and 3) that not all hens brood.
My question: is there a way of being reasonably sure that a hen is not going to brood on a certain egg, so that we can 'safely' remove the egg?

Marl
09-05-2011 01:36 AM
Misty Yea ok, I see your point now. I never really pay attention to which forum I am in.
09-05-2011 01:06 AM
nogardsram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty View Post

The OP was asking for answers.

Sure, but in order to answer some questions, you really have to ask some more questions to get clarification.

What's the point in asking vegans about consuming eggs, chicken habits, fertilization of eggs, etc? Is this about veganism or about consuming eggs?
09-05-2011 01:02 AM
Misty The OP was asking for answers.
09-05-2011 12:56 AM
nogardsram
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty View Post

I just think you didn't bother reading the whole thread as most of it has already been addressed.

I read the entire thread and I do no think the OP answered any of the questions ElaineV asked. So no, I don't think they have been addressed.

--

As for:

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlironbrave View Post

Since I'm a vegan, I don't eat eggs. Also not eggs from hens from someones backyard, because if everyone buys hens and NO roosters, the roosters are still going to be killed.

My question: what would be against eating eggs that you got from someone who has 50% hens and 50% roosters in his backyard?

Thanks.

What would it matter if someone has 50% hens and 50% roosters in their backyard with respect to the relevancy of eating their eggs?
09-04-2011 11:17 PM
Misty Disney Jessica, they are so sad when they first come to me. Scared, ohh so bald ( they nearly look like they have been plucked for eating, but still have heads and move, just.) They need food and water right in front of them because they just don't understand freedom and choice. It takes them a few weeks to get on their feet properly and a few months to regrow their feathers, at first they look like porcupine quills. They are such a joy though, to watch them recover and finally have freedom.

Soz for going off topic too.
09-04-2011 11:06 PM
disney.jessica
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty View Post

Do you know anything about chickens.. or people for that matter Elaine? Many people couldn't care less about a trip to paris or a convertible. I know they don't excite me.
Not everyone that has chickens does them in when they stop laying. I have rescue hens, they came from the battery farm instead of going to slaughter. I take in other peoples ex layers rather than see them go in a pot. Yes I feel good about this.
Roosters will fight if they are bored or just want to be head **** if there are too many.

I just think you didn't bother reading the whole thread as most of it has already been addressed.

I'm sorry for going off topic a bit but I just wanted to say that that's so wonderful that you rescue those chickens!

I love chickens, I'd love to have the chance to rescue some, too, someday.
09-04-2011 10:43 PM
Misty Do you know anything about chickens.. or people for that matter Elaine? Many people couldn't care less about a trip to paris or a convertible. I know they don't excite me.
Not everyone that has chickens does them in when they stop laying. I have rescue hens, they came from the battery farm instead of going to slaughter. I take in other peoples ex layers rather than see them go in a pot. Yes I feel good about this.
Roosters will fight if they are bored or just want to be head **** if there are too many.

I just think you didn't bother reading the whole thread as most of it has already been addressed.
09-04-2011 10:12 PM
ElaineV
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlironbrave View Post

My question: what would be against eating eggs that you got from someone who has 50% hens and 50% roosters in his backyard?

Why do you want to eat eggs? Are you going to be satisfied with just a few eggs every now and then? If so, might you also be satisfied eating no eggs at all?

What's your argument for why you don't eat eggs from wild robins or crows? Why not eat owl eggs or lizard eggs? Snake eggs or alligator eggs?

Where do these hens and roosters come from? Are you purchasing them and incentivising cruel breeders? Or are they rescued?

And how are they keeping the roosters separated from the hens so the eggs don't get fertilized? Do the roosters mind? Do they get lonely or anything like that?

Do the neighbors care about all these roosters? They get loud you know. You must have a lot of land! Wouldn't you rather use that land for something else (guest house for people, vegetable garden, kennels for rescued dogs, etc) or sell the land and use the money for something fun (sailing around the world, perhaps)?

What other animals might like to share some of that land but can't live there because you'd given it to the roosters?

What's going to happen to the hens when they stop producing eggs? Where will they live and who will pay for their care?

Those hens and roosters are going to need a lot of stuff - nesting supplies, feed, perching ladders and whatnot. And they need TLC whenever the weather changes or there's an illness or injury. Are you really so in love with eggs that you want to spend that much time, effort, and money to produce "humane" eggs? Might there be something else you enjoy more (like a trip to Paris or a convertible)?

But really, if someone is eating any eggs from their own backyard hens I'm just not going to waste my time on them. There are higher priorities. The millions of factory farmed hens need my advocacy more.
09-04-2011 08:11 PM
disney.jessica Oh, I forgot that thy aren't mammals. That makes a lot more sense then.
09-04-2011 08:09 PM
Misty You need to remember that birds have a reproductive system quite different than mammals. They only have a vent (cloaca) that serves all purposes down there.
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