Is the upcoming general election really a done deal? - Page 2 - VeggieBoards
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#31 Old 02-24-2010, 06:44 AM
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I don't see how someone can be for massive unemployment, skyrocketing inflation, a huge cut in public services and a worthless currency but I guess it takes all kinds....

I didn't say I was ! But I haven't quite made the link between those issues and a hung parliament. We already have sky rocketing inflation - they removed a lot of stuff from how the inflation rate is calculated so as to keep the actual figure down but petrol, food, etc is increasing an order of magnitude higher than the inflation rate. And there IS a huge cut in public services. particularly here in Birmingham as has been in the news the past few days. So, given our taxes pay for public services, yet taxes have increased significantly, I can only deduce that there are less people paying tax; given the population is increasing, this must logically follow that there is significantly increasing unemployment (though it won't be fully visible in the official figures as they'll be based on a different definition of "unemployed" to what the layman thinks of as "unemployed"). Yet we currently don't have a hung parliament.



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#32 Old 02-24-2010, 06:58 AM
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I didn't say I was ! But I haven't quite made the link between those issues and a hung parliament. We already have sky rocketing inflation - they removed a lot of stuff from how the inflation rate is calculated so as to keep the actual figure down but petrol, food, etc is increasing an order of magnitude higher than the inflation rate. And there IS a huge cut in public services. particularly here in Birmingham as has been in the news the past few days. So, given our taxes pay for public services, yet taxes have increased significantly, I can only deduce that there are less people paying tax; given the population is increasing, this must logically follow that there is significantly increasing unemployment (though it won't be fully visible in the official figures as they'll be based on a different definition of "unemployed" to what the layman thinks of as "unemployed"). Yet we currently don't have a hung parliament.



TTFN,

Jon



I've posted links to what the financial market guys are worried about. Its pretty simple: a hung parliament could lead to a massive devaluation of the ££. You know how bad things are now but think about if your (and everyone elses) ££ could literally only buy half of what it can buy now. Imagine that impact in your area. That's what I'm talking about. Tories or Labour or other parties in Westminster will be the last thing you are worried about if that happens.
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#33 Old 02-24-2010, 08:39 AM
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I've posted links to what the financial market guys are worried about. Its pretty simple: a hung parliament could lead to a massive devaluation of the ££. You know how bad things are now but think about if your (and everyone elses) ££ could literally only buy half of what it can buy now. Imagine that impact in your area. That's what I'm talking about. Tories or Labour or other parties in Westminster will be the last thing you are worried about if that happens.



I'm convinced whoever wrote that will be a conservative. Other countries with coalitions seem to have no problem in working policy. The mixed German system, at least in the Reichstag, seems to work pretty well. PR also means that the Lib Dem's seats will just about double, the Green Party will also get a decent allocation. This is all very good for animal welfare.
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#34 Old 02-24-2010, 08:53 AM
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I'm convinced whoever wrote that will be a conservative. Other countries with coalitions seem to have no problem in working policy. The mixed German system, at least in the Reichstag, seems to work pretty well. PR also means that the Lib Dem's seats will just about double, the Green Party will also get a decent allocation. This is all very good for animal welfare.



There are many, many financial experts all saying the same thing, voicing the same concern. Financial market people may have private political thoughts but when it comes to money, it doesn't matter: they go with whatever will make them more profit. The financial experts don't care if its Tories or Labour in charge as long as its one party with a clear majority. A clear majority = stability, stability = good for business/credit ratings.



The UK system is totally different from most European systems. Don't make the mistake of comparing UK to other European governments. Here's an explanation:



Other countries seem to have loads of hung parliaments. Why don't we?



It is all to do with the electoral system.



Israel has one of the purest forms of proportional representation. All voters choose from a list of parties, and parties get seats in the Knesset based on the number of votes they receive in the whole country.



That encourages single-issue parties and parties appealing to only one section of the population and makes it almost impossible for a single party to win a majority of seats.



After an election, the biggest party has to try to form a coalition with as many smaller parties as it takes to achieve a majority.



The UK is at the other extreme. A party will only win a seat if it gets the largest number of votes in a single constituency.



That means that parties have to try to appeal to as much of the population as they can. Smaller parties can win thousands of votes around the country but still not win a seat.



The system makes it much more likely that a single party will win a majority.
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#35 Old 02-26-2010, 04:38 AM
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Wow the Tory lead is shrinking almost daily! Only 5 points ahead of Labour now. If the election was held right now (and the poll is correct), Labour would be the majority party!



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ad-five-points



Tories went from a 19% lead to a 5% lead! That's amazing.
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#36 Old 02-26-2010, 07:09 AM
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Wow that is encouraging! Hopefully he'll be made to look an absolute bum during the televised debate, that's going to be scarily crucial. To be honest, I like what having that is trying to do, make politics more accessible etc but I'm really not comfortable with the fact that it'll just degenerate into a battle of sound-bites.



I still think PR is the way to go. It can, and does, provide stable governments that are accountable. The Reichstag should be seen as the model for this. The fact that Thatcher never gained over 50% of the national vote and was in the position to enact her neo-liberal agenda should scare you.
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#37 Old 02-28-2010, 08:19 AM
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Ha ha the latest poll has Labour essentially winning with Brown staying in Number 10!



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7044185.ece
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#38 Old 03-01-2010, 09:19 AM
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Whoops here we go with the devaluation of the pound. Its started just on rumours of a hung parliament. Not good.



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100301/...e-45dbed5.html
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#39 Old 03-01-2010, 11:31 AM
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I'm surprised Labour are still getting so many votes. I didn't think they had so much support.
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#40 Old 03-02-2010, 05:44 AM
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I saw that BBC news article, if it does happen the parties will work to correct that, I don't see any reason that they won't work together over something as basic as that.



Speculators are not political scientists, they're playing safe with their money.
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#41 Old 03-02-2010, 07:07 AM
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I saw that BBC news article, if it does happen the parties will work to correct that, I don't see any reason that they won't work together over something as basic as that.

Yeah, I have to agree. I admittedly don't know the British system very well, but it's not like there are huge ideological differences between the major parties (if they have any ideologies at all except clinging to power, which seems dubious). And I think lots of other European countries have had successful coalition governments at some point, so I think the Brits will do just fine.

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#42 Old 03-02-2010, 07:17 AM
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You guys are such optimists



Precisely the reason why the financial sector is concerned is that they have special analysts that spend their entire waking lives analysing how the UK government works and the impact of various different government policies, politicians and political actions will have on the financial market. Not just one bank, or one analyst. Not just handful of banks are worried, not just a few dozen financial institutions are concerned, ALL of the financial experts are worried.



Quite simply, these armies of analysts, in all of their experience and wisdom, are convinced that the UK political system will not work efficiently without one party or another in majority. They know the ins and outs of Westminster and the political parties probably better then they know themselves. They are convinced a hung parliament will dither aimlessly instead of dealing with the very real debt crisis that needs immediate attention. Without this immediate attention, the international financial markets will brutally punish the UK and each and every person who relies on the UK economy.



If someone could point me to a financial analyst who has a 'hey a hung parliament is no big deal' then I'd love to read about it and be an optimist, too.
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#43 Old 03-02-2010, 09:43 AM
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Every party believes that the debt needs to be cut, and rightly so. But what will be worse for the economy? Hard-hitting cuts under the Tories that will damage a fragile recovery? or a more measured approach which would be taken by the Liberals or Labour.



That will send markets back into decline.



From what I've read plenty economists are actually saying that sterling is falling because of the 'unknown' of a hung parliament and how they would deal with it, rather any than supposed ineffectiveness. That will reverse once fears are proved unfounded.
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#44 Old 03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
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Every party believes that the debt needs to be cut, and rightly so. But what will be worse for the economy? Hard-hitting cuts under the Tories that will damage a fragile recovery? or a more measured approach which would be taken by the Liberals or Labour.



That will send markets back into decline.



From what I've read plenty economists are actually saying that sterling is falling because of the 'unknown' of a hung parliament and how they would deal with it, rather any than supposed ineffectiveness. That will reverse once fears are proved unfounded.



July 2010, after the election, a hung parliament:

Labour: 'We need to cut our debt by cutting funding to the military'

Conservatives: 'No! We need to cut our debt by raising taxes'

Raise taxes! Cut military! No! No!



It will be chaos of debate with nothing getting done. Look at what's happening (or not happening) in the Ukraine government as an example of stagnation due to polarisation.



I'm not sure what you are reading, but the financial sector is upset not from 'worry of unknown' but because a hung parliament seems more and more likely. You'll notice that Sterling fell sharply immediately after a new poll came out saying the Tories had only a 2 point lead. This news made the fact of a hung parliament much more likely so the markets reacted by selling off the ££.
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#45 Old 03-02-2010, 01:08 PM
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Labour or Tory, I've never voted for either and I'm not about to start now. They've both ****ed this country.
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#46 Old 03-02-2010, 01:49 PM
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Labour or Tory, I've never voted for either and I'm not about to start now. They've both ****ed this country.



You've tapped into the mood of the electorate which is exactly what is alarming economists and why the ££ is crashing.
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#47 Old 03-02-2010, 04:23 PM
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I'm surprised Labour are still getting so many votes. I didn't think they had so much support.



I think it's more that there are a lot of people who just don't support the Tories.



It looks like the Greens could get an MP elected, fingers crossed!
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#48 Old 03-03-2010, 05:47 AM
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This is the first election I can vote in and I just don't know who to vote for. The more I research around the three major parties the more confused I get. I'll probably end up voting for the Greens...
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#49 Old 03-08-2010, 03:19 PM
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This is the first election I can vote in and I just don't know who to vote for. The more I research around the three major parties the more confused I get. I'll probably end up voting for the Greens...



I'm taking probably a very silly way of looking at it, but as far as I'm concerned, we've had Labour and Tory, and neither were that good, so I'm going to try out Lib Dem. Had a funny thing through my letter-box a few days ago from Labour. Their campaign in Manchester basically says 'vote for us so the Tories don't get in.' Sound's a bit desperate to me.
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#50 Old 03-13-2010, 02:08 AM
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The Lib Dems are the definitive case for proportional rep. In that system they would often gain double the seats they do now. I'd vote for them but voting Labour, in my area, is the best way of keeping the Conservatives out.



PLEASE make that your priority in the election!!
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#51 Old 03-14-2010, 04:57 AM
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Hello I hope you dont mind me sticking my nose in here but the issue of voting is something I feel quite strongly about. I could almost stand and bang my head against a wall when I hear the phrase "I dont vote because all the party's are the same" or "If I vote green my vote will be wasted." It is because we have been told this that we believe it.



If I were in power and could change the law I would say that if you registered to vote and dont then your vote will automatically go to the party that is already in power as it is obvious that you are ok with how things are. If you want change then you can vote for it. If everyone who thinks that their vote for the liberal party or the Green party is pointless actually goes out and puts there vote in then perhaps thing will change, maybe it will take time, but it can change. Sitting at home and shouting at the telly wont change things, and maybe your vote could be the one to make the difference. The BNP discovered this and rallied all there voters together and won seats and most of the people who complained about this didnt use their vote at all.



"Change will not happen if we wait for some other person or some other time, we are the ones we have been waiting for, we are the change we seek."



OK I will get off my soap box now, sorry for the rant.



Sarah
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#52 Old 03-14-2010, 05:03 AM
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Excellent post! Welcome to the boards!



I would also add that perhaps this year, as we are almost certainly heading for a hung parliament, is now indeed the time to go ahead and vote for those minor party candidates you've maybe thought about voting for in the past. There may be some interesting opportunities in a coalition government for these smaller parties to make a real difference.
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#53 Old 04-06-2010, 06:08 AM
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OKEY DOKEY! May 6th it is. I have already rung my party of choice and offered my support and excellent admin skills as a volunteer. I've had a call back and am going into the constituency office tomorrow. I know who I want to win and have chosen to be active.



I've already had a screaming match with my daughter this morning, who "didn't ask for the right to vote". No, but she claims her right to education for her daughter and without votes that would never have happened. Nor council housing, benefits, and the health service she makes use of. People who don't exercise their right to vote in the UK make me so angry. All around the world people are still dying (and it's 2010 for Goodness sake!) to win their countrymen and women the right to live in a democracy. We have it, we should use it. Those who don't, shut the Hell up about this country and everything that's wrong with it. The only way to accomplish change is to get to the ballot box and vote.



Kisstheapple, thanks fot the loan of the soapbox. You can have it back now! x
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#54 Old 04-06-2010, 06:23 AM
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I'll probably vote green or lib-dem, not sure which yet but I will vote

Are you sure this is art, not vandalism?
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#55 Old 04-07-2010, 02:54 AM
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OKEY DOKEY! May 6th it is. I have already rung my party of choice and offered my support and excellent admin skills as a volunteer. I've had a call back and am going into the constituency office tomorrow. I know who I want to win and have chosen to be active.



I've already had a screaming match with my daughter this morning, who "didn't ask for the right to vote". No, but she claims her right to education for her daughter and without votes that would never have happened. Nor council housing, benefits, and the health service she makes use of. People who don't exercise their right to vote in the UK make me so angry. All around the world people are still dying (and it's 2010 for Goodness sake!) to win their countrymen and women the right to live in a democracy. We have it, we should use it. Those who don't, shut the Hell up about this country and everything that's wrong with it. The only way to accomplish change is to get to the ballot box and vote.



Kisstheapple, thanks fot the loan of the soapbox. You can have it back now! x



Nice rant



I do think we should have a system of compulsory voting. Even if one of the choices is 'none of the above'.



I'm not so sure the political parties would like that though.
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#56 Old 04-07-2010, 03:20 AM
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This website is really interesting: http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ You get a list of actual policy statements on certain subjects. You then pick which statements you agree with. The kicker is you have no idea which party the statements come from so you are actually considering stated policies and not the personalities or the politicians themselves. At the end of the survey the website tells you which parties you agree with more based on policy. Very eye opening!
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#57 Old 04-07-2010, 03:30 AM
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Nice rant



I do think we should have a system of compulsory voting. Even if one of the choices is 'none of the above'.



I'm not so sure the political parties would like that though.



That would result in a lot of people ticking a random box, or ticking one they saw on the telly that one time and they seemed to be talking sense, or the one they saw on HIGNFY you made them laugh... not a good idea.
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#58 Old 04-07-2010, 03:38 AM
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Nice rant



I do think we should have a system of compulsory voting. Even if one of the choices is 'none of the above'.



I'm not so sure the political parties would like that though.



I'm the opposite. I think it should be more difficult for people to be able to vote. I also think that only people who really understand basic civic issues, economics and other factors should be allowed to vote. I would like to see some sort of 'voter test' whereby you have to demonstrate a basic ability to understand what you are voting for to earn the right to vote.



Right now politicians can just spew meaningless soundbytes that they know people want to hear as most voters really don't understand the mechanics of government or the impact of economic policies. If all voters were super sharp and issue orientated, politicians would have to work much harder to win an election. And we'd be more likely to have a government full of people who know what they are doing as opposed to those who know how to look good on camera or who can recite soundbytes learned at focus groups.
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#59 Old 04-07-2010, 06:03 AM
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I'm the opposite. I think it should be more difficult for people to be able to vote. I also think that only people who really understand basic civic issues, economics and other factors should be allowed to vote. I would like to see some sort of 'voter test' whereby you have to demonstrate a basic ability to understand what you are voting for to earn the right to vote.



Right now politicians can just spew meaningless soundbytes that they know people want to hear as most voters really don't understand the mechanics of government or the impact of economic policies. If all voters were super sharp and issue orientated, politicians would have to work much harder to win an election. And we'd be more likely to have a government full of people who know what they are doing as opposed to those who know how to look good on camera or who can recite soundbytes learned at focus groups.



I agree that it would be good to have an electorate that is knowledegable about politics, economics and civil issues. But how do we as a society (in reality) achieve that?



One way to educate people is make politics a compulsory subject at school. The only problem is that the children will be instructed by a teacher who inevitably has their own political views and the children will learn those. My son is studying politics at A level: his lecturer is very biased towards Brown/Labour and very anti Cameron/Conservatives, so guess what he is taught? The bias of videos he is being shown? Even at 17, teenagers still 'generally' accept that what lecturers tell them is true. (Having said that, my 17 is particularly gullible. A winsome trait when he was young, but now you sometimes want to shake him!) So where will the 'knowledge' come from, and whose version of knowledge and truth will it be?



How would you set a political test? Who would administer it - the present government? Couldn't that lead to a bias towards the knowledge they want you to possess and what is in their best interests for you not to know? Where are we going to get the real truth about the parties from? All newspapers/journalists are prone to lying or at least exaggerating to back up their views and as mentioned above, teachers/parents will have their own biases. Even economics teachers are biased towards their particular economic views (my dear gullible son studied that as well). Would people have to have an IQ test as well? Should only people who are educated to a certain level be able to vote? I agree with your vision, but I think it is beset with difficulties.



I don't think there is a simple answer. But I'm fed up with people moaning about the government, but then not making the effort to vote.
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#60 Old 04-07-2010, 06:08 AM
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This website is really interesting: http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ You get a list of actual policy statements on certain subjects. You then pick which statements you agree with. The kicker is you have no idea which party the statements come from so you are actually considering stated policies and not the personalities or the politicians themselves. At the end of the survey the website tells you which parties you agree with more based on policy. Very eye opening!





Thanks! That is interesting. I came out mostly green with a couple of lib-dem and 1 ukip.

Are you sure this is art, not vandalism?
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