We Are Dealing With Oblivious Addicts - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 04-27-2017, 02:37 AM
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We Are Dealing With Oblivious Addicts

For all of my knowledge I could not at first analyze why I have such limited patience with people but then I realized that talking to unrepentant, non-reflective, completely non-questioning meat eaters is just like dealing with delusional high people who don't realize they can kill others or themselves, who think life is a party and don't get why other people are being Debbie Downers.

I realized then I have long despised the selfishness of unreachable addicts because of personal relationships with addicts so that explains my individual impatience.

It also reinforced my belief that shock and disruption is an excellent teaching technique, just as intervention though unpleasant is usually the best thing for drug addicts.
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#2 Old 04-27-2017, 03:08 AM
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I'm not sure that I would consider all omnivores "addicts". People are highly influenced by family and community culture and habit, and social norms. Vegetarians and vegans veer from the social norm of most but not all human cultures. Its very difficult for some people to understand that one can thrive without meat, dairy, and eggs when that is what they grew up with and were taught was healthy in school, and it is still strongly pushed in popular media and many nutrition and school textbooks (also in college, as I discovered when I took Anatomy and Physiology). The four food groups, and dairy for calcium, was ingrained in my head for many many years, and heavily pushed when I was in school as a child. And though I have been strict vegan for a number of years now, I still go through periods of mild worry and doubt as someone who has osteoporosis (acquired as an omni and first diagnosed in 2006). I make an extra effort to ensure I get plant based bone building minerals in my diet and also supplement and do other things to help myself. But I do worry sometimes if it's enough. It's hard to overcome influence, and question family, social and religious norms, and powerful organizations who promote these. I don't think it's always a matter of selfishness and lack of truly caring.

Many people are also brought up believing non human animals are put here for humans to use, and are "inferior" to us, or do not have souls, or are lower on the food chain bla bla. So even making a moral and ethical point about animals falls on deaf ears. Try to tell someone that a fish deserves as much right to live his/her life without human interference as you and I, and see what reaction you get.

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#3 Old 04-27-2017, 12:38 PM
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Thalassa, I think you make some very interesting points. I am not sure I quite agree with it mind you, but I think there is some truth in it and definately food for thought.
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#4 Old 04-27-2017, 09:55 PM
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For all of my knowledge I could not at first analyze why I have such limited patience with people but then I realized that talking to unrepentant, non-reflective, completely non-questioning meat eaters is just like dealing with delusional high people who don't realize they can kill others or themselves, who think life is a party and don't get why other people are being Debbie Downers.

I realized then I have long despised the selfishness of unreachable addicts because of personal relationships with addicts so that explains my individual impatience.

It also reinforced my belief that shock and disruption is an excellent teaching technique, just as intervention though unpleasant is usually the best thing for drug addicts.
I agree with you completely.
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#5 Old 04-28-2017, 01:00 PM
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I'm not sure that I would consider all omnivores "addicts". People are highly influenced by family and community culture and habit, and social norms. Vegetarians and vegans veer from the social norm of most but not all human cultures. Its very difficult for some people to understand that one can thrive without meat, dairy, and eggs when that is what they grew up with and were taught was healthy in school, and it is still strongly pushed in popular media and many nutrition and school textbooks (also in college, as I discovered when I took Anatomy and Physiology).... I don't think it's always a matter of selfishness and lack of truly caring....

Many people are also brought up believing non human animals are put here for humans to use, and are "inferior" to us, or do not have souls, or are lower on the food chain bla bla. So even making a moral and ethical point about animals falls on deaf ears....
Well said as always Naturebound. I'm not going to denigrate "unrepentant" omnis because I was in that group a few years ago. (I think a lot of us who're now veg*ns were.) Many omnis will be doing great work in the community, third world etc so maybe there's more to occupying the moral high ground than being veg*n?

Lv
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#6 Old 05-12-2017, 08:47 PM
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Well said as always Naturebound. I'm not going to denigrate "unrepentant" omnis because I was in that group a few years ago. (I think a lot of us who're now veg*ns were.) Many omnis will be doing great work in the community, third world etc so maybe there's more to occupying the moral high ground than being veg*n?

Lv
But those people are indirectly harming the third world because the majority of countries with starving children have grain and soy being exported to feed Western food animals.

Although my post may have reflected my anger and frustration in that moment, I still maintain that veganism actually has a rational, factual basis that some moral belief systems do not, and that shock and disruption must be used as teaching tools...in fact what @Naturebound pointed out about social conformity and cultural brain washing is also true, and is equally as well dealt with by shock and disruption because polite debate doesn't overcome such deep cognitive biases.
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#7 Old 05-12-2017, 09:06 PM
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I'm not sure that I would consider all omnivores "addicts". People are highly influenced by family and community culture and habit, and social norms. Vegetarians and vegans veer from the social norm of most but not all human cultures. Its very difficult for some people to understand that one can thrive without meat, dairy, and eggs when that is what they grew up with and were taught was healthy in school, and it is still strongly pushed in popular media and many nutrition and school textbooks (also in college, as I discovered when I took Anatomy and Physiology). The four food groups, and dairy for calcium, was ingrained in my head for many many years, and heavily pushed when I was in school as a child. And though I have been strict vegan for a number of years now, I still go through periods of mild worry and doubt as someone who has osteoporosis (acquired as an omni and first diagnosed in 2006). I make an extra effort to ensure I get plant based bone building minerals in my diet and also supplement and do other things to help myself. But I do worry sometimes if it's enough. It's hard to overcome influence, and question family, social and religious norms, and powerful organizations who promote these. I don't think it's always a matter of selfishness and lack of truly caring.

Many people are also brought up believing non human animals are put here for humans to use, and are "inferior" to us, or do not have souls, or are lower on the food chain bla bla. So even making a moral and ethical point about animals falls on deaf ears. Try to tell someone that a fish deserves as much right to live his/her life without human interference as you and I, and see what reaction you get.
I know about the factors you mention, it's so much more disturbing than it initially even seems, with government collusion with the agricultural industry in the U.S.and television ads meant to push meat as "good" and "what's for dinner"...there's actually a long history of milk being associated with institutional racism in the United States, as many East Asian cultures avoid milk and do not carry the adult lactase adaptation, and milk does absolutely nothing to improve bone health in persons with African ancestry. Recently Trump supporting neo-Nazis caught wind of this and used this faulty rationale to start a milk troll campaign, saying anyone who wasn't lactose tolerant should "go home" (this being especially comical since some Native American groups do not adapt to lactase, my mother is lactose intolerant, and many Middle Eastern Muslim groups on the other hand consume dairy regularly, except usually from goats).

So while I agree with what you're saying - though the four food groups were replaced with the food pyramid several decades ago - I know there are more reasons to eliminate meat consumption than just animal cruelty, and in a time of mass extinction, global warming and third world resources literally being used to provide fat Westerners with meat, I don't have a lot of patience.

So I both concede to your point, but maintain my own, especially in regards to shock and disruption being useful in activism.

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#8 Old 05-12-2017, 09:30 PM
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We are being deluged with pork adds and being told how good it is for us and egg ads saying they are no longer considered bad for you and you should eat three a day. Just blatant lies.

If I see another add showing an animated happy cow I think I might get violent. The dairy industry is not doing well here (horray) and the name changing game has started
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#9 Old 05-12-2017, 09:31 PM
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- though the four food groups were replaced with the food pyramid several decades ago - .

I find it so encouraging that, in 2011, the USDA and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) replaced the "food pyramid" with the "ChooseMyPlate" nutrition guide.



Notice that the federal government's new "ChooseMyPlate" food guide has no "Meat Group" (look at the plate diagram)! Instead, the USDA and HHS replaced the "Meat Group" with the "Protein Group", which includes beans, peas, soy foods, seeds and nuts (as well as meat options): https://www.choosemyplate.gov/protein-foods

Also, the "Dairy Group" now officially includes calcium-fortified soymilk! https://www.choosemyplate.gov/dairy

And, the ChooseMyPlate.gov website includes a page specifically about vegetarian nutrition: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/tips-vegetarians

The ChooseMyPlate website also has a page dedicated to the benefits of beans and peas! They recommend that everyone, including omnivores, include beans and peas in their diets: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/vegetables-beans-and-peas


Just look at the cover of the federal government's 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans! Beans, grain bread, fruits, and vegetables!






Although I praise the USDA and HSS for making these changes, I don't know how many people actually follow the ChooseMyPlate guidelines. People seem more likely to believe the dubious claims made by television doctors.

.
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http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

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#10 Old 05-12-2017, 09:45 PM
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My family didn't have a problem with me being a vegetarian...but one family member said to me "You won't be able to last on a vegan diet...you won't be able to afford it." That angered me. I showed this person a lot of the films showing the abuse...could care less even about the affect on the environment. The Person just said to me "You can't change it." or the person didn't care because they felt like they were old and nearing the end of their life.

The price of meat and dairy products can be as little as 30 dollars a week to much more depending on how many people you are feeding (as well as the amount.) I also see people eating a large amount of meat even though the body only uses a certain amount of protein. The rest becomes waste to the body. Anyway, that 30 dollars could get a lot of veggies, fruits, and roots...as well as different herbs for seasoning. It ends up being the same price anyway or cheaper depending on how smart you get with shopping.

Bacon can cost 6 dollars...where a bunch of zuchinni, cucumbers, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, whatever else could be less or the same price. But you get a huge variety and more valuable nutrition.

I don't bother arguing with people...I'll share my views. But it's there job to make the changes in their life. I can't force them....the government also has a responsibility.

Anyway I think the only problem this family member has which they sort of had when I was just a vegetarian is I won't be cooking large fancy dinners. I probably will start back to cooking large fancy dinners once I figure out how to cook with vegan alternatives.
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#11 Old 05-12-2017, 10:28 PM
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My family didn't have a problem with me being a vegetarian...but one family member said to me "You won't be able to last on a vegan diet...you won't be able to afford it." That angered me. I showed this person a lot of the films showing the abuse...could care less even about the affect on the environment. The Person just said to me "You can't change it." or the person didn't care because they felt like they were old and nearing the end of their life.

The price of meat and dairy products can be as little as 30 dollars a week to much more depending on how many people you are feeding (as well as the amount.) I also see people eating a large amount of meat even though the body only uses a certain amount of protein. The rest becomes waste to the body. Anyway, that 30 dollars could get a lot of veggies, fruits, and roots...as well as different herbs for seasoning. It ends up being the same price anyway or cheaper depending on how smart you get with shopping.

Bacon can cost 6 dollars...where a bunch of zuchinni, cucumbers, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, whatever else could be less or the same price. But you get a huge variety and more valuable nutrition.

I don't bother arguing with people...I'll share my views. But it's there job to make the changes in their life. I can't force them....the government also has a responsibility.

Anyway I think the only problem this family member has which they sort of had when I was just a vegetarian is I won't be cooking large fancy dinners. I probably will start back to cooking large fancy dinners once I figure out how to cook with vegan alternatives.

I understand what you're saying but our current government is not at all trustworthy, down to lies in the EPA about fossil fuels thanks to Scott Pruitt, and the only way to end this is to directly target consumers and change the culture from the ground up. Of course there are ways to do it other than arguing, like creating vegan products, organizing vegan art projects or festivals or music, opening a vegan restaurant or vegetarian market, but it's actually unacceptable that older people don't care because they think they'll die soon, or to act as though the choice to eat meat is on par with any other inconsequential preference, like favorite color or style of clothing, and that's what makes me angry. I think that post modern relative nihilistic morality may be the extinction of mankind.

In both Zen Buddhism and Jainism, one finds vegans, and also among 7th Day Adventist, but in Judeo-Christianity, people often blatantly disregard that before the so called fall of man, everyone was vegan. There's no record of animal product consumption until the Flood. The commandment Thou shalt not kill has been reduced to human murder, but I think it's the same principle as ahimsa, and kill no living thing in all Eastern thought, and there is universal morality in either being vegan or being a vegetarian in an ancient time before mass animal cruelty.

People wouldn't say "oh well its their choice to own slaves" and that's how I see it. Grievous harm is being done to the earth and to mankind and people are acting as though we're talking about someone's decision to paint their bathroom green or beige.
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#12 Old 05-12-2017, 10:34 PM
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We are being deluged with pork adds and being told how good it is for us and egg ads saying they are no longer considered bad for you and you should eat three a day. Just blatant lies.

If I see another add showing an animated happy cow I think I might get violent. The dairy industry is not doing well here (horray) and the name changing game has started
Yes I am happy to see the decline of the dairy industry. I was amazed that the US dairy board essentially admitted that without illegal immigrant labor, the price of a gallon of milk would jump to eight dollars a gallon. Sadly what many people are seeing is "oh no this racist ridding of the US of illegal immigrants will make milk expensive" instead of saying "oh good lord these people are under paying tormented illegal workers whom they abuse so we can have cheap milk, something is rotten in the state of Denmark, let's stop buying milk from these corrupt people and drink soy/almond/rice milk instead." But some people will get it and they do.

I try to avoid television commercials as much as possible now because ultimately I have a really bad reaction to it too. One recent thing I've been interested in is self care as an activist. So that we are creating new things instead of wasting energy reacting to existing negativity. I'll share some things if you are interested.
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#13 Old 05-12-2017, 10:53 PM
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I find it so encouraging that, in 2011, the USDA and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) replaced the "food pyramid" with the "ChooseMyPlate" nutrition guide.



Notice that the federal government's new "ChooseMyPlate" food guide has no "Meat Group" (look at the plate diagram)! Instead, the USDA and HHS replaced the "Meat Group" with the "Protein Group", which includes beans, peas, soy foods, seeds and nuts (as well as meat options): https://www.choosemyplate.gov/protein-foods

Also, the "Dairy Group" now officially includes calcium-fortified soymilk! https://www.choosemyplate.gov/dairy

And, the ChooseMyPlate.gov website includes a page specifically about vegetarian nutrition: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/tips-vegetarians

The ChooseMyPlate website also has a page dedicated to the benefits of beans and peas! They recommend that everyone, including omnivores, include beans and peas in their diets: https://www.choosemyplate.gov/vegetables-beans-and-peas


Just look at the cover of the federal government's 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans! Beans, grain bread, fruits, and vegetables!






Although I praise the USDA and HSS for making these changes, I don't know how many people actually follow the ChooseMyPlate guidelines. People seem more likely to believe the dubious claims made by television doctors.

.

Yes that's cool, thanks for pointing this out, it's definitely a step in the right direction to label protein instead of "meat group" and a few years ago the first ever US vegan food pyramid was approved at Cornell University under the guidance of Dr. T. Colin Campbell. I also always like to point to the World Health Organization.

"TV doctors" and "TV scientists" have been a problem in the US for at least fifty years, they're the ones who hid the health consequences of smoking from the general public and who now are influencing American climate science denial. Have you seen Merchants of Doubt? It's now being suggested that similar "TV science" is being used to promote propaganda for Monsanto about GMOs, since realistically, just because people don't get poisoned and drop dead immediately from genetically modified organisms doesn't mean that the overall ecological consequences and long term effects of pesticides used by those companies are "safe."
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#14 Old 05-12-2017, 11:04 PM
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Yes I am happy to see the decline of the dairy industry. I was amazed that the US dairy board essentially admitted that without illegal immigrant labor, the price of a gallon of milk would jump to eight dollars a gallon. Sadly what many people are seeing is "oh no this racist ridding of the US of illegal immigrants will make milk expensive" instead of saying "oh good lord these people are under paying tormented illegal workers whom they abuse so we can have cheap milk, something is rotten in the state of Denmark, let's stop buying milk from these corrupt people and drink soy/almond/rice milk instead." But some people will get it and they do.

I try to avoid television commercials as much as possible now because ultimately I have a really bad reaction to it too. One recent thing I've been interested in is self care as an activist. So that we are creating new things instead of wasting energy reacting to existing negativity. I'll share some things if you are interested.
I watch very little tv too but I just seem to pick the time these ads are on I have been known to change channels or turn off because of them
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#15 Old 05-13-2017, 05:09 PM
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I understand what you're saying but our current government is not at all trustworthy, down to lies in the EPA about fossil fuels thanks to Scott Pruitt, and the only way to end this is to directly target consumers and change the culture from the ground up. Of course there are ways to do it other than arguing, like creating vegan products, organizing vegan art projects or festivals or music, opening a vegan restaurant or vegetarian market, but it's actually unacceptable that older people don't care because they think they'll die soon, or to act as though the choice to eat meat is on par with any other inconsequential preference, like favorite color or style of clothing, and that's what makes me angry. I think that post modern relative nihilistic morality may be the extinction of mankind.

In both Zen Buddhism and Jainism, one finds vegans, and also among 7th Day Adventist, but in Judeo-Christianity, people often blatantly disregard that before the so called fall of man, everyone was vegan. There's no record of animal product consumption until the Flood. The commandment Thou shalt not kill has been reduced to human murder, but I think it's the same principle as ahimsa, and kill no living thing in all Eastern thought, and there is universal morality in either being vegan or being a vegetarian in an ancient time before mass animal cruelty.

People wouldn't say "oh well its their choice to own slaves" and that's how I see it. Grievous harm is being done to the earth and to mankind and people are acting as though we're talking about someone's decision to paint their bathroom green or beige.
Funny you brought up religion...I had the same argument with this family member and I said.. I really think in the bible it doesn't fully condone eating meat..and this family member said "You are twisting the words." While I am not the most hardcore religious person..I still will say there has to be something like a deity. Anyway...the reason I say this isn't there a part of the bible that we were given the task to look over the animals and name them. Why would *god* give us the task to protect the animals and name them? Sounds pretty crude that we are meant to protect them and name them just to gobble them down with a side of barbecue sauce. Also a lot of diseases are carried from meat products not properly cooked. In addition Milk would be deadly to us if we didn't pasteurize it.

Plus back to adam and eve....The story doesn't make them look like meat eaters.

Well I won't argue philosophy, but that is partially why I feel that the bible may not support meat eating behaviors.

Even consuming meat is very different now. People had to hunt for the meat...allowing the animals to live in their natural environment (or went to a local farm & butcher.) So people saying eating meat has always been a behavior of humans...hm maybe true. But how it is occurring is very very different. How meat is eaten and produced started to change in the industrial revolution. This is why we are having the environmental issues now. How it is produced is not natural to how the earth functions.
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#16 Old 05-13-2017, 05:16 PM
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30 day burger challenge

This youtuber so calling left a burger out for 30 days vs leaving out whole foods (like figs.)
She marked what the fruits/veggies looked vs the burger.

Well I hope she is honest in this experiment. But, I have watched her quite a bit and I personally think she is more honest than a lot of people out here.


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#17 Old 05-13-2017, 06:17 PM
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If you left a patty of ground beef out it would also rot and decompose. This video is only comparing a burger and bun that has been processed. I've had gmo potatoes that have never grown sprouts, or rotted, but have simply gotten hard. Her comparision is only of fresh fruits and processed meats and bread. Meat can be a whole food as well.
Where did you get the idea that milk would kill you if not pasterized? Many people drink raw milk, right from the cow. You can buy it from farmers.
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#18 Old 05-13-2017, 06:19 PM
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This youtuber so calling left a burger out for 30 days vs leaving out whole foods (like figs.)
She marked what the fruits/veggies looked vs the burger.

Well I hope she is honest in this experiment. But, I have watched her quite a bit and I personally think she is more honest than a lot of people out here.
30 day challenge fast food burger Vs whole food


Hi TheStars&TheWorld,

I'm a fan of this YouTuber also. She goes by the name of "Fully Raw Kristina".

Kristina is extremely committed to health and the vegan diet, but it's probably important to note that her health teachings are not generally supported by mainstream vegan organizations.

Kristina believes that people should not eat beans or grains (even whole grains). She also claims that cooked foods are unhealthy: http://www.fullyraw.com/be-fullyraw/...o-be-fullyraw/ . No mainstream vegan organization supports such claims.

Mainstream vegan organizations recommend that people eat cooked legumes, whole grains, vegetables, fruits, and nuts/seeds. Here is more information from the Vegan Society (founded in 1944): https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ients/overview

.
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http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

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#19 Old 05-13-2017, 07:27 PM
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I did state this is a fast food burger I never said this was a burger where the meat came from the meat produce or local butcher.

Also no doctor I worked for would recommend drinking raw milk. We've had patients get very ill from drinking raw milk.

Not everyone gets sick from raw milk I will agree to that, but it's still not recommended.
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Last edited by TheStars&TheWorld; 05-13-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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#20 Old 05-13-2017, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David3 View Post
Hi TheStars&TheWorld,

I'm a fan of this YouTuber also. She goes by the name of "Fully Raw Kristina".

Kristina is extremely committed to health and the vegan diet, but it's probably important to note that her health teachings are not generally supported by mainstream vegan organizations.

Kristina believes that people should not eat beans or grains (even whole grains). She also claims that cooked foods are unhealthy: http://www.fullyraw.com/be-fullyraw/...o-be-fullyraw/ . No mainstream vegan organization supports such claims.

Mainstream vegan organizations recommend that people eat cooked legumes, whole grains, vegetables, fruits, and nuts/seeds. Here is more information from the Vegan Society (founded in 1944): https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ients/overview

.

I never said I agree with her diet 100%....I still eat beans and grains for many reasons. I was just showing that video to make a point that fast food is not the same a whole foods.

A hamburger from wendy's or any of these fast food joints are extremely more cheaper than if you tried making a fresh one.


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#21 Old 05-13-2017, 07:37 PM
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Also the CDC recommends not drinking raw milk...

"Pasteurization is the process of heating milk to a high enough temperature for a long enough time to kill illness-causing bacteria contained in the milk."

Cooking meat kills off bacteria...which when meat isn't handled properly it can make you ill.

Just because not everyone gets sick from something does not mean it's good.

https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmi...d-answers.html
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#22 Old 05-13-2017, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStars&TheWorld View Post
I never said I agree with her diet 100%....I still eat beans and grains for many reasons. I was just showing that video to make a point that fast food is not the same a whole foods.

A hamburger from wendy's or any of these fast food joints are extremely more cheaper than if you tried making a fresh one.


Hi TheStars&TheWorld,

I'm afraid that I may have come across rudely, or generally badly. I really didn't mean to do that!

I mentioned the criticisms of Fully Raw Kristina only out of concern. Kristina is so committed, focused, and enthusiastic that many people believe her wholeheartedly, despite some of her non-evidence-based claims about cooked foods and vitamin supplements. Part of our volunteer work in VeggieBoards is to caution new vegetarians about these things.

I consider myself a fan of Kristina (as well as a critic).

.
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_________

Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
- United Nations' World Health Organization
http://www.who.int/topics/diet/en/

Last edited by David3; 05-13-2017 at 08:09 PM.
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#23 Old 05-14-2017, 07:41 PM
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#24 Old 05-15-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
Yes that's cool, thanks for pointing this out, it's definitely a step in the right direction to label protein instead of "meat group" and a few years ago the first ever US vegan food pyramid was approved at Cornell University under the guidance of Dr. T. Colin Campbell. I also always like to point to the World Health Organization.
[...]
This video is something else that could inspire hope, as the animal product industries wouldn't be doing this if the vegan industries weren't threatening competitors.


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Originally Posted by BlueMts View Post
I watch very little tv too but I just seem to pick the time these ads are on I have been known to change channels or turn off because of them
We disconnected our TV a few months ago. It saves money and the Internet is the future of television.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStars&TheWorld View Post
[..]
Even consuming meat is very different now. People had to hunt for the meat...allowing the animals to live in their natural environment (or went to a local farm & butcher.) So people saying eating meat has always been a behavior of humans...hm maybe true. But how it is occurring is very very different. How meat is eaten and produced started to change in the industrial revolution. This is why we are having the environmental issues now. How it is produced is not natural to how the earth functions.
"The Paleolithic period represents just the last two million years of human evolution. What did our bodies evolve to eat during the first 90% of our time on Earth?"
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the...diet-argument/
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#25 Old 11-22-2017, 11:41 AM
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I personally don't think that people who are not vegan are "oblivious addicts" but just have been brought up much more different and have not been exposed to how animal are treated for food and when being used as test subjects. Of course, there are some people that simply just do not care but the majority of the friends around me have cut down their meat and dairy consumption a lot due to added health benefits they have felt and seen. I think over time, especially with such a huge selection and variety of vegan products on the market now, there is lots of change happening.
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#26 Old 02-28-2018, 06:03 AM
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One thing you can do. Give people vegan food. I like to make baked goods (bread) and bring them into work. My thought is its a win-win situation. One, everybody loves me for it (who doesn't love free food, or fresh home made bread?) so it wins me some points. But what they don't know is the REAL reason I do it is so that they fill up on vegan bread and then they won't go out and eat meat for lunch. Maybe for a day, I might have stopped a few people from eating meat for one meal. It isn't much, but its something. I hate that our society sees it as normal to slaughter and kill when in fact biologically it is anything but normal. Its disgusting. Humans are NOT meat eaters. But people would rather bury their head in the sand rather than see the error of their ways and make changes that would be better for all.
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