The Freelee & Gary Yourofsky Controversy: Death to Non Vegans & Human Hating? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 06-03-2015, 09:58 AM
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The Freelee & Gary Yourofsky Controversy: Death to Non Vegans & Human Hating?


Recent videos from Freelee the Banana Girl and Gary Yourofsky have sparked a great deal of controversy amongst vegans and non-vegans alike. In my first [and maybe only] ever "commentary" video, I talk about what we can learn from these videos and the uproar surrounding them.

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Last edited by Capstan; 06-03-2015 at 10:14 AM.
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#2 Old 06-03-2015, 10:09 AM
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Hi Emily,


Your "educational buzz-kill" is exactly what YouTube needs more of. Thank you for bringing fact-finding and reasoning to the community.

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Specific recommendations for a healthy diet include: eating more fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts and grains; cutting down on salt, sugar and fats. It is also advisable to choose unsaturated fats, instead of saturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids."
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#3 Old 06-03-2015, 11:53 AM
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I hope I don't get hated on for saying this, but Freelee saying death to non-vegans really bothered me. As a vegan I believe in non-violence as a whole including non-violence to humans. I mean I have people that I really love and care about that are non-vegan. I tell my mom all the time about the cruelty to animals on factory farms and she is not a vegan, and I would be devastated if someone wanted to kill my mom because she isn't a vegan. I mean I am sure many vegans have someone they care about very much that isn't a vegan, wishing death on them is a bit extreme we should not wish death on anything or anyone.
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#4 Old 06-03-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasminedesi16 View Post
I hope I don't get hated on for saying this, but Freelee saying death to non-vegans really bothered me. As a vegan I believe in non-violence as a whole including non-violence to humans. I mean I have people that I really love and care about that are non-vegan. I tell my mom all the time about the cruelty to animals on factory farms and she is not a vegan, and I would be devastated if someone wanted to kill my mom because she isn't a vegan. I mean I am sure many vegans have someone they care about very much that isn't a vegan, wishing death on them is a bit extreme we should not wish death on anything or anyone.
I agree. It was immature, irresponsible, and completely out of line.
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#5 Old 06-03-2015, 01:06 PM
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I agree. It was immature, irresponsible, and completely out of line.
Agreed.
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#6 Old 06-03-2015, 02:42 PM
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I tried to post a comment on your website (not on the video itself) but I don't think it went through.
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#7 Old 06-03-2015, 08:23 PM
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BSV, you make me want to live each day vegan.
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#8 Old 06-04-2015, 09:15 AM
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Hi Emily,


Your "educational buzz-kill" is exactly what YouTube needs more of. Thank you for bringing fact-finding and reasoning to the community.
You're so welcome- glad it was helpful

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Originally Posted by Jasminedesi16 View Post
I hope I don't get hated on for saying this, but Freelee saying death to non-vegans really bothered me. As a vegan I believe in non-violence as a whole including non-violence to humans. I mean I have people that I really love and care about that are non-vegan. I tell my mom all the time about the cruelty to animals on factory farms and she is not a vegan, and I would be devastated if someone wanted to kill my mom because she isn't a vegan. I mean I am sure many vegans have someone they care about very much that isn't a vegan, wishing death on them is a bit extreme we should not wish death on anything or anyone.
I think a lot of people felt this way

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I tried to post a comment on your website (not on the video itself) but I don't think it went through.
Oh i usually have to go through and approve first time comments. i'll check again!

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BSV, you make me want to live each day vegan.
aww thank you that's all I can hope for!

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#9 Old 06-11-2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasminedesi16 View Post
I hope I don't get hated on for saying this, but Freelee saying death to non-vegans really bothered me. As a vegan I believe in non-violence as a whole including non-violence to humans. I mean I have people that I really love and care about that are non-vegan. I tell my mom all the time about the cruelty to animals on factory farms and she is not a vegan, and I would be devastated if someone wanted to kill my mom because she isn't a vegan. I mean I am sure many vegans have someone they care about very much that isn't a vegan, wishing death on them is a bit extreme we should not wish death on anything or anyone.
Exactly. Not many people were born vegans; people should not forget where they came from.

Hate gets us nowhere, and actually makes many people be more stubborn and stay being cruel to animals. Hating is about giving up on people and pouting because one didn't get their way, but hate doesn't solve anything.

Google animal/human/environmental activist Dr. Steve Best; he's the best public AR person out there in my opinion. Here is the best speech I've ever heard:

Dr. Steven Best has a new book out which goes into more detail. It's titled: The Politics of Total Liberation. Subtitled: Revolution for the 21st Century.

He speaks using common sense and his talks are very educational and thought-provoking.
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VEGAN = LOVE FOR PEOPLE, ANIMALS, PLANET.
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#10 Old 06-12-2015, 09:00 AM
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Exactly. Not many people were born vegans; people should not forget where they came from.

Hate gets us nowhere, and actually makes many people be more stubborn and stay being cruel to animals. Hating is about giving up on people and pouting because one didn't get their way, but hate doesn't solve anything.

Google animal/human/environmental activist Dr. Steve Best; he's the best public AR person out there in my opinion. Here is the best speech I've ever heard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksfre0zNrgw

Dr. Steven Best has a new book out which goes into more detail. It's titled: The Politics of Total Liberation. Subtitled: Revolution for the 21st Century.

He speaks using common sense and his talks are very educational and thought-provoking.
He certainly has said many amazing things but there are some extreme manipulative actions he has taken against those in the movement. Not to sound cloak-and-dagger but I literally cannot expound due to legal reasons.

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#11 Old 06-12-2015, 09:09 PM
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II would be devastated if someone wanted to kill my mom because she isn't a vegan. I mean I am sure many vegans have someone they care about very much that isn't a vegan, wishing death on them is a bit extreme we should not wish death on anything or anyone.

I have people who are non vegan that I care about as well. I actually feel you. But let me ask a simple question. people wish death on criminals(rapists, child molesters, embezzlers etc.) right? Don't you think that's also bad? Or is that justified?
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#12 Old 06-13-2015, 01:18 AM
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I have people who are non vegan that I care about as well. I actually feel you. But let me ask a simple question. people wish death on criminals(rapists, child molesters, embezzlers etc.) right? Don't you think that's also bad? Or is that justified?
It's never right to wish death on anyone, and less so to encourage others to commit violence against even a criminal. Sometimes it's understandable, but that doesn't make it justified.
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#13 Old 06-14-2015, 06:54 AM
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Emily, I always love every single word that comes out of your mouth. I'll admit I didn't watch the videos from Gary and Freelee that you discussed, but from what you've said I think I can understand where there comments came from. Sometimes when I hear of a captive circus elephant has killed its trainer or similar story of an animal fighting back at someone who abuses it, a voice in my head says 'take that, animal abuser. karma's a *****'. But deep down, am I actually happy that a human has been harmed or killed? Of course not. I feel guilty for that thought even occurring. I guess the difference is that I don't let these thoughts escape my mouth because they would not be a correct representation of how I truly feel. I don't expect that is how Gary and Freelee truly feel either, they are just super passionate and let these words escape their mouths. Or maybe I just like to only see the good in people

I find it funny how you mentioned the whole hero worship thing, because I reckon that's exactly what I do with Gary. He is my favourite person ever. I think he is just the coolest person and I'm pretty much obsessed with him and all his sass. The only thing he's said that I've disagreed with (that I know of) is what he thinks should happen to racists. Pretty sure you know what I'm talking about! Only because I'm not one of those people that's like 'I hope that rapist gets locked up and raped in the prison showers to know what it feels like'. Violence, even in the form of punishment, makes me a little sick. BUT I don't let that tarnish Gary's reputation in my eyes. I don't see my obsession with him ending any time soon
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#14 Old 06-14-2015, 11:33 AM
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I have people who are non vegan that I care about as well. I actually feel you. But let me ask a simple question. people wish death on criminals(rapists, child molesters, embezzlers etc.) right? Don't you think that's also bad? Or is that justified?
I don't support the death penalty at all, even for criminals. In my opinion the death penalty should be completely abolished. In my opinion eating meat is not right, but wishing death on people who is not right. There are meat eaters that are very good people and just have not made the connection yet or have been conditioned since childhood to eat it, most believe they will die, get anemia, be protein deficient no matter how much you tell them they won't. It has been instilled in them to eat meat and that they need it to survive. And if you are comparing people I care about to murders, rapists and criminals for eating meant than I'm sorry but that is really offensive, my loved ones are not criminals. Criminals that rape and murder other humans should be in jail.
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#15 Old 06-14-2015, 11:53 AM
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I don't support the death penalty at all, even for criminals. In my opinion the death penalty should be completely abolished. In my opinion eating meat is not right, but wishing death on people who is not right. There are meat eaters that are very good people and just have not made the connection yet or have been conditioned since childhood to eat it, most believe they will die, get anemia, be protein deficient no matter how much you tell them they won't. It has been instilled in them to eat meat and that they need it to survive. And if you are comparing people I care about to murders, rapists and criminals for eating meant than I'm sorry but that is really offensive, my loved ones are not criminals. Criminals that rape and murder other humans should be in jail.
This is my opinion exactly.
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#16 Old 06-14-2015, 12:53 PM
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The new title of this thread should be, Is Killing People Vegan?

The answer is no.

That's just my opinion, but....
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#17 Old 06-14-2015, 07:34 PM
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[QUOTE=Jasminedesi16;3683561There are meat eaters that are very good people and just have not made the connection yet or have been conditioned since childhood to eat it, most believe they will die, get anemia, be protein deficient no matter how much you tell them they won't. It has been instilled in them to eat meat and that they need it to survive. And if you are comparing people I care about to murders, rapists and criminals for eating meant than I'm sorry but that is really offensive, my loved ones are not criminals. Criminals that rape and murder other humans should be in jail.[/QUOTE]


My point exactly, you wish worse things on criminals rather than meat eaters (criminals must go to jail atleast - which I agree) because you believe(rightly?) that eating meat(contributing to animal suffering) is almost a non offense compared to crimes against humans. (Atleast in today's world where it is ingrained into society. )

I agree.

But I also understand that these activists (Gary or freelee) feel really strongly about animal rights issues. That's why they may say such things. They aren't really going to kill anyone. They are venting their frustrations. they should probably keep their emotions in check on such things for the betterment of both them and the movement of veganism, but I understand why they say what they say.
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#18 Old 06-24-2015, 04:20 AM
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It is justified. Death is not intrinsically bad, though it is commonly feared. The fear of death or the attachment to life is not a good argument against killing. That is a sentimental approach. Sentimentality has it's place, but pure sentimentality does not.Like anything killing can be done for a good reason or a bad reason.


For example we often euthanize a person or down an animal. Often there is consent/consensus, often there isn't. Consent is not required for euthanasia to be moral in an animal, nor is it necessarily require for a human. We can see the validity in this basic argument; killing is worthy/justified when it reduces suffering. When suffering becomes so much that it makes life no longer worth living. At what point that is reached, it is a subjective thing.

The same argument can be used for capital punishment against a criminal. If the criminal exceeds "X amount of suffering" then the criminal has reached a point were we say "you have crossed the point where you have inflicted too much suffering/ill to be a worthwhile member or society". This is a social contract we agree too through consensus through merely living in a state of society.

There are noble things to live for and noble things to die for. Killing can only be 100% bad if there are no undeserved deaths. This is simply not the case. Virtue and good behavior (obedience) brings reward and blessings. Poor behaviour (sin) and rebellion (deviance) brings curses. Doings things that are not right create a bad fortune. Ultimately being foolish leads to death.

It's easy to sit in yer comfortable chair in yer comfortable peace time life and say "I'm against violence", "I'm against capital punishment", "Killing is bad" when you have probably never experienced some real ****. I wouldn't let hitler live. I wouldn't let stalin live. I wouldn't let george bloody bush live. Life is not as precious as some make it out to be. If it is really that precious though, what better argument for capital punishment than that? That we should kill those murderers who don't share the same reverence for life that we do! Eliminate them we we create an environment that values life.


And yes. If there was enough consensus, and society became vegan, it is very likely that people would be "put down" (killed) for what many vegans would consider crimes (against animals). In NZ for example, a meat based culture, you can now face up to five years in jail for cosmetic testing on animals. Imagine the kind of penalties that would be around if a place like Saudi Arabia went full on Gary "**** Humans" Yourofsky Vegan!
We get along just fine here in the UK without the death penalty. Our society isn't overrun with rapists and murderers. We have prisons, mental health facilities, rehabilitation centres, strict gun laws-- and our crime rate is lower now than it's ever been. The truly sentimental reaction is to kill the one who wronged you. I couldn't fault a person for feeling that desire-- if someone hurt my family, my initial reaction would undoubtedly be to take revenge-- but that's not how civilised, intelligent, fair-minded people respond.
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#19 Old 06-24-2015, 08:10 AM
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...
There are noble things to live for and noble things to die for. Killing can only be 100% bad if there are no undeserved deaths. This is simply not the case. Virtue and good behavior (obedience) brings reward and blessings. Poor behaviour (sin) and rebellion (deviance) brings curses. Doings things that are not right create a bad fortune. Ultimately being foolish leads to death.

It's easy to sit in yer comfortable chair in yer comfortable peace time life and say "I'm against violence", "I'm against capital punishment", "Killing is bad" when you have probably never experienced some real ****. I wouldn't let hitler live. I wouldn't let stalin live. I wouldn't let george bloody bush live. Life is not as precious as some make it out to be.
Being foolish can, indeed, lead to death. That noted, nothing is 100% anything. Neither "virtue" nor "sin" have anything to do with our life's fortune. Acting in certain ways can definately influence one's lot in life. This has to do with society and how it functions, not sin.

Example: if doing action 1 is frowned upon, then performing action 1 will have negative consequences. If action 2 is smiled upon, then doing said action will have positive results.

I'm tired of folks implying that anyone against the death penalty "finds it easy to do when you sit back in your armchairs." You don't know what people have been through.

The point of the death penalty is to remove those who are dangerous to society. This can easily be accomplished without the taking of life. What about revenge? Revenge is not justice. Giving in to anger and revenge accomplishes nothing, except perhaps a fleeting, perverse sense of satisfaction.

Generally, people who commit atrocities are misguided, delusional, mentally ill.. perhaps they lack empathy. Perhaps society failed them. Perhaps they made a conscious choice to behave in such a way. Whatever it is, whatever reasoning is (or isn't) behind the action, the end result is that they cannot function peaceably in society.

Empathy, and morals created from it, are social constructs. No one is intrinsically "evil." I don't feel that taking the life of another for revenge is justified. People dangerous to society should simply be removed from it.
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#20 Old 06-24-2015, 08:14 AM
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I That we should kill those murderers who don't share the same reverence for life that we do!
Ah, the irony!
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#21 Old 06-24-2015, 08:16 AM
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It's easy to sit in yer comfortable chair in yer comfortable peace time life and say "I'm against violence", "I'm against capital punishment", "Killing is bad" when you have probably never experienced some real ****.
You really have NO idea what others on VB have experienced.
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#22 Old 06-24-2015, 11:03 AM
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We get along just fine here in the UK without the death penalty. Our society isn't overrun with rapists and murderers. We have prisons, mental health facilities, rehabilitation centres, strict gun laws-- and our crime rate is lower now than it's ever been. The truly sentimental reaction is to kill the one who wronged you. I couldn't fault a person for feeling that desire-- if someone hurt my family, my initial reaction would undoubtedly be to take revenge-- but that's not how civilised, intelligent, fair-minded people respond.
Yeah, almost all of Europe and most of the western world has done away with the death penalty. Amnesty International is against the death penalty in all circumstances. I don't believe the death penalty stops crimes either. In the United States we have the death penalty and still have a really high murder rate and crime rate. Plus it is so easy to accidentally be convicted of something you didn't do.
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#23 Old 06-24-2015, 11:25 AM
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My point exactly, you wish worse things on criminals rather than meat eaters (criminals must go to jail atleast - which I agree) because you believe(rightly?) that eating meat(contributing to animal suffering) is almost a non offense compared to crimes against humans. (Atleast in today's world where it is ingrained into society. )

I agree.

But I also understand that these activists (Gary or freelee) feel really strongly about animal rights issues. That's why they may say such things. They aren't really going to kill anyone. They are venting their frustrations. they should probably keep their emotions in check on such things for the betterment of both them and the movement of veganism, but I understand why they say what they say.
So you are saying all meat eaters are criminals? I'm sorry but they aren't. There are many good hearted meat eaters out there and some vegans who can have no morals at all. You know some meat eaters although maybe hypocritical do help Animal rights issue. Ricky Gervais isn't a vegan and look how much attention he brought to the trophy hunting? Should he be in jail because he eats meat?! Most of these people never realize where their food is coming from.They are also swayed by doctors telling them meat is a necessity and even the government recommending it to them.Most of these people are getting false information, some are afraid for their health by going vegan. They are bombarded by ads for Mcdonalds, Burger King, Arbys and other fast food places. Almost all food commercials contain meat/dairy. Some restaurants here you can't even get a vegan meal. Are all people who buy clothes from China/India bad people because of the way they treat the sweatshop workers? Most don't even realize were it was made. In the 50s/60s were all smokers bad people because they were unknowingly polluting the air and making people sick because of second hand smoke? Rapists, Murderer's and other criminals know exactly what their doing and know they are inflicting harm. I don't believe all meat eaters want to hurt animals, actually I believe if majority of them were put in a room with a banana and a pig and told to eat one they would pick the banana. I bet if they had to slaughter all their animals by themselves more than half of them would go vegan overnight. I believe eating meat is morally wrong but I rather attack the industries than attacking people who eat meat by calling them criminals and that they deserve to die. The everyday people eating meat are not criminals and they don't belong in jail or death.
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#24 Old 06-24-2015, 01:11 PM
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So you are saying all meat eaters are criminals? I'm sorry but they aren't. There are many good hearted meat eaters out there and some vegans who can have no morals at all. You know some meat eaters although maybe hypocritical do help Animal rights issue. Ricky Gervais isn't a vegan and look how much attention he brought to the trophy hunting? Should he be in jail because he eats meat?! Most of these people never realize where their food is coming from.They are also swayed by doctors telling them meat is a necessity and even the government recommending it to them.Most of these people are getting false information, some are afraid for their health by going vegan. They are bombarded by ads for Mcdonalds, Burger King, Arbys and other fast food places. Almost all food commercials contain meat/dairy. Some restaurants here you can't even get a vegan meal. Are all people who buy clothes from China/India bad people because of the way they treat the sweatshop workers? Most don't even realize were it was made. In the 50s/60s were all smokers bad people because they were unknowingly polluting the air and making people sick because of second hand smoke? Rapists, Murderer's and other criminals know exactly what their doing and know they are inflicting harm. I don't believe all meat eaters want to hurt animals, actually I believe if majority of them were put in a room with a banana and a pig and told to eat one they would pick the banana. I bet if they had to slaughter all their animals by themselves more than half of them would go vegan overnight. I believe eating meat is morally wrong but I rather attack the industries than attacking people who eat meat by calling them criminals and that they deserve to die. The everyday people eating meat are not criminals and they don't belong in jail or death.

My point is not that meat eaters are criminals. Although if I was an animal I would certainly think so. It's also pretty much bull**** that most people are ignorant because they don't have information. Most are willfully ignorant and mainly don't care.

My point was that I understand why certain vegans feel very negatively about meat eaters. Do I myself wish death on every meat eater?

No. Do I get angry at meat eaters? Yes, specially when I read stupid Facebook/YouTube comments. At those times I wish they had a little taste of what those animals go through, So they could also understand why we don't want animals to suffer the way they do.
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#25 Old 06-26-2015, 04:50 AM
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I'm not saying that capital punishment is a superior system. Honestly with the amount of CCTV camera network in the UK ( a very modern thing) is a vastly superior deterrent to crime than capital punishment could ever be.
I agree.

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My essential point is that killing can be justified, killing can be righteous. This whole idea that killing can 100% never ever ever ever ever be good because "it's violence" is ridiculous. I'm a vegan but there are cases when I would kill an animal.
There are cases where I would kill an animal, too. Heck, there are cases where I would kill another human. If anyone were attacking my family, particularly my baby, I would do whatever I had to do to keep my loved ones safe. In this case, I believe the killing would be justified-- but not righteous. It would be immoral to take pleasure in the killing or to attack the person or animal once the initial danger had passed. I could not, for instance, stab a sleeping bear who had injured or even killed a loved one. I might be driven by grief to do so, but it would not be a moral act.

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You don't care how inefficient it is to keep someone in prison for life?
It's actually more expensive to execute a criminal than to house one, up to ten times more expensive according to this article in Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphi...llars-at-work/ In my opinion, the best solution is to do away with capital punishment and to jail fewer people for minor offences like possession of narcotics. Prisons should be reserved for violent criminals who are unable to safely exist within larger society.
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#26 Old 06-26-2015, 06:32 AM
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I do not agree that prisons should only be reserved for violent criminals - yet others could walk freely among us. There are non violent people out there who have the power, be it through consent or through fear, to influence or make another person commit a crime, or destroy someones life.
I'm talking about people like human traffickers, and people who put families out of their homes like conmen. People who organise that kind of behaviour. These people would never be arrested or charged for a violent offence - yet they are a huge risk to the public. Should they avoid incarceration?.


There are people far more dangerous than violent criminals if we decide to truly define a violent criminal.
Did none of us have fights and scrapes growing up in and around school? An act where you strike another person is an act of violence and thus deemed a criminal offence - are most of us therefore violent criminals?

Or perhaps its only if you get convicted of an offence you become a criminal. If well if that's the case the zodiac killer is not a criminal...
Nor is the unreported man (or woman) who domestically abuses their partner. I guess they are not violent criminals as they have not yet been convicted.

The point I am making is being a "violent criminal" is far too loose a term to be the yay or nay determining factor for those who should and shouldn't be in prison.

Prisons are there to house the most dangerous people in society - no matter the crime. They should house people who have the highest chance of either directly or indirectly causing serious harm to another individual.
A conman who destroys hundreds of families by stealing all of their money may have more of an impact on the well being of families than a guy who gets in a drunken scuffle with some other guy for knocking over his beer.

The reason we have a system of court throughout the world is to try to filter the severe risks out, and help those who can still be helped. It is not a perfect solution admittedly as there is room for poor judgement and corruption to take effect. But common sense and judgement on circumstances must be a factor in determining who should be in prison. I am all for reducing the amount of people behind bars, but hey I'm all up for imprisoning more serious criminals too.


I think that those who cause suffering to animals through food and clothing production should be stood in front of a court and questioned. They should be potentially incarcerated dependant on the severity of crime - this is where common sense comes in as a shop may sell leather goods and contribute to suffering, but be ignorant to it. Whereas people who own and operate factory farms should certainly be incarcerated in my opinion.



There is no saving a child abuser however. If someone sexually abuses children - or impaired adults (down syndrome) etc, you deserve the worst sentencing possible. It is evil beyond measure.
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#27 Old 06-26-2015, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanSmith View Post
I do not agree that prisons should only be reserved for violent criminals - yet others could walk freely among us. There are non violent people out there who have the power, be it through consent or through fear, to influence or make another person commit a crime, or destroy someones life.
I'm talking about people like human traffickers, and people who put families out of their homes like conmen. People who organise that kind of behaviour. These people would never be arrested or charged for a violent offence - yet they are a huge risk to the public. Should they avoid incarceration?.


There are people far more dangerous than violent criminals if we decide to truly define a violent criminal.
Did none of us have fights and scrapes growing up in and around school? An act where you strike another person is an act of violence and thus deemed a criminal offence - are most of us therefore violent criminals?

Or perhaps its only if you get convicted of an offence you become a criminal. If well if that's the case the zodiac killer is not a criminal...
Nor is the unreported man (or woman) who domestically abuses their partner. I guess they are not violent criminals as they have not yet been convicted.

The point I am making is being a "violent criminal" is far too loose a term to be the yay or nay determining factor for those who should and shouldn't be in prison.

Prisons are there to house the most dangerous people in society - no matter the crime. They should house people who have the highest chance of either directly or indirectly causing serious harm to another individual.
A conman who destroys hundreds of families by stealing all of their money may have more of an impact on the well being of families than a guy who gets in a drunken scuffle with some other guy for knocking over his beer.

The reason we have a system of court throughout the world is to try to filter the severe risks out, and help those who can still be helped. It is not a perfect solution admittedly as there is room for poor judgement and corruption to take effect. But common sense and judgement on circumstances must be a factor in determining who should be in prison. I am all for reducing the amount of people behind bars, but hey I'm all up for imprisoning more serious criminals too.


I think that those who cause suffering to animals through food and clothing production should be stood in front of a court and questioned. They should be potentially incarcerated dependant on the severity of crime - this is where common sense comes in as a shop may sell leather goods and contribute to suffering, but be ignorant to it. Whereas people who own and operate factory farms should certainly be incarcerated in my opinion.



There is no saving a child abuser however. If someone sexually abuses children - or impaired adults (down syndrome) etc, you deserve the worst sentencing possible. It is evil beyond measure.
I specifically referenced the thousands of people who are currently imprisoned for minor offenses such as possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia, inability to pay court fees, etc. I think it goes without saying that I was not advocating for the lifetime imprisonment of anyone who gets into a drunken brawl.
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#28 Old 06-26-2015, 09:15 AM
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I am not in favour of the death penalty. Killing somebody in a calculated, planned and calm manner (as in during an execution or premeditated murder) is extremely sinister.

I could understand a relative flying into a rage and trying to kill someone who murdered their family member. But they are acting in an irrational way and are not in control of what they are doing due to being overcome with emotion. This is still wrong and is rightly illegal but it is not a cold/ planned act and so, IMO, not comparable to executing someone (or committing premeditated murder).

With regards to the videos - I think that Freelee and Gary were just saying exactly what was on their mind at that time, which is something that you shouldn't necessarily do if you have a webcam (!). I am sure that they wouldn't actually kill anyone in reality. I also don't believe that Gary has no interest whatsoever in human rights issues, nor that he hates all humans. I think that he said those things in reaction to some unpleasant comments that others had made about him and he was upset. Regardless of what Gary said in this video, his overall vegan message is an excellent one and one that I 110% agree with. He does great work for (non-human) animals and I greatly respect and admire him for that. He has, and always will have, my full support in this regard
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#29 Old 06-26-2015, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Botanical Concepts View Post
Yes that was a speculation. It was based on the fact that western people have a fairly comfortable life overall, but I took it too far. I take it back.
Thank you. I do agree that we western people have a fairly comfortable life, but that doesn't make us immune from the kind of events that have a direct bearing on views regarding the death penalty or other penalties for criminal behavior.
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#30 Old 06-26-2015, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botanical Concepts View Post
Some methods can be expensive. Hanging and decapitation have never and will never been expensive.
It is the years of taxpayer paid legal wrangling before the execution that is expensive.
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