Contradicting Meat-Eater(s) - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-13-2015, 10:20 AM
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Contradicting Meat-Eater(s)

So, I wonder why people justify the killing of animals... but when it's done in a religious way, such as halal/kosher... It's cruel?
(Note: I was really trying to be non-aggressive in my comments as this person is a friend. Though, if I outright mispread information, feel free to call me out and correct me. I am new to this.. Heh. Oh and, the political thing isn't the subject.. We can talk about it, but... Yeah. Not what I'm trying to discuss.)

Quote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/I-koshe...ling-says-D…
Don't be a twat Dave . With all respect for people to have the right to believe in what they want religiously , halal /kosher slaughter is absolutely barbaric and I'm sorry but what 'God' would want any living thing to spend it last minutes stressed and in pain , left to slowly bleed to death ? Good on Denmark for not allowing religion to be used as an excuse for cruelty and banning it .

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Kyron Alex Taylor
To be honest, any killing of animals is barbaric. But yep. Halal/Kosher is a lot crueler. >,< The PM seems to care more about relations with other people than ethics... And it seems he was aware of the HSBC tax evasion scandal prior to it coming to light too. So it shows how gross and sly he/his-party is. (Also, let me just throw it in there that, this kind-of tax-evasion is what matters, not people's silly ideas of immigrants claiming benefits..)

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Kyron are we really starting this debate ? In my opinion , as someone who eats meat , has worked on several farms and supports ethical agriculture , no , not all killing of animals is barbaric . As long as the animal is raised with care and high welfare standards and then eventually slaughtered with respect and minimal stress , then I have no problem . Farmers get a fair bit of bad press but I can honestly say I have never met a farmer who doesn't love his animals or worked on a farm where the animals are treated with any cruelty or neglect. The agri industry provides income for millions of hard working people and supports the economy massively , if the whole world were to turn veggie it would not be for the better ! :S Well of course he was aware , wouldn't want his private school banking buddies to go without a 4th mercedes now would he ?

Kyron Alex Taylor
I'm not starting a debate. xD I just think, there is no way to kill an animal "kindly".., Even in the, what seems to be "nicest" way. (stunning them so they (probably) can't feel pain. Letting them have a 'good' life up until that point... Even if you stroke it's head and cuddle it when you finally shoot it in the back of the head.. Like, if it was done to a human, people would still think it's disgusting.) Ending it's life at all is already pretty barbaric in my opinion. Just because there's no need. - I don't think farmers are bad people for that. I think it's just the direction society has gone. Supply = Demand. Farmers are just trying to support themselves and make a living. I read a pretty good quote from a slaughterhouse employee, something along the lines of "I'm just doing societies dirty work."
If the whole world turned veg*n overnight, yeah, the economy would suffer. But over years and years there wouldn't be very little-no negative economic effects. In fact, I've read that all the food we feed to the mass-bred animals could "end world hunger" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.../wo...nger_b_1463429...)
But I don't think there needs to be a debate/argument about it. I'm not trying to offend anyone. xD
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#2 Old 02-13-2015, 10:46 AM
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I'm going to start off by saying I've been vegan for 18 years (unless you count a blip where I drunkenly ate a couple of cheese sandwiches, then it's 15 years), so I do not in any way approve of eating meat, but I have seen a few different sources that suggest slaughter methods for halal and kosher meat are actually meant to minimise the animal's suffering, and I did see a convincing link to a study where they wired up animal's brains during regular and religious slaughters and the slowly bleeding to death was actually a lot less traumatic than the conventional slaughter method.

Just to be clear, I don't think either method is right! But I do feel a lot of people use religious slaughter as a way of justifying a certain amount of xenophobia or racism, even if they don't realise that's what they are doing.

I wish I'd kept a link to the study I saw, I will try and find it...
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#3 Old 02-13-2015, 10:56 AM
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I think you handled it well.
I know someone who has the same opinion of your friend when it comes halal meat. Said he'll never go vegetarian, but then talked about how cruel halal meat is. I always thought it was hypocritical.
Your friend sounds very ignorant about factory farming - pretty much all meat sold to grocery stores come from factory farms, not from those "ethical" animal farms. And like you said, killing is killing.

"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form." - William Ralphe Inge

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#4 Old 02-13-2015, 11:02 AM
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Hmm, I've tried to find that study and can't find it, what I did find seemed to indicate that religious slaughter does cause between 10-30 seconds of pain, unless stunning is used first - http://www.newscientist.com/article/...slaughter.html

I don't want to do any more research into this right now as it's upsetting, but I seem to remember that religiously slaughtered animals (possibly just kosher?) are isolated so they don't have to see their fellows being butchered, in order to minimise their distress and actual regard to the feelings of the animals seems to be taken into account more in religious slaughter (that's if it's done under ideal conditions). It's all pretty effed up though so I'll bow out of the conversation for now.
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#5 Old 02-13-2015, 12:18 PM
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I would ask facwbook friend how he is certain of the methods used to kill the animals he ate this week, and last week, and next week....

Plus the animals are slaughtered, no matter how "kindly" for Facebook friend's appetite. He ok with that?
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Last edited by LedBoots; 02-13-2015 at 12:33 PM.
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#6 Old 02-13-2015, 01:23 PM
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Yes I agree there is no humane way to kill. But killing without stunning is rather sadistic isn't it? I don't think it should be allowed. But in an ideal world no killing at all would take place
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it takes guts to be gentle and kind
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#7 Old 02-13-2015, 05:59 PM
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All meat is murder...

Halal/ Kosher make an already terrible situation even worse...

Why is the suffering and killing of animals wrong? Because the value of a sentient organism's life is priceless. They are their own beings and have their own lives and loves. They have higher emotions and thought processes. Their minds are different from ours in degree, not kind - meaning that fundamentally there are critical similarities.
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#8 Old 02-13-2015, 07:20 PM
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In other news a new debate is raging worldwide - which form of homicide should attract least penalty. The offenders argue that drug-assisted manslaughter should be considered lesser crime than gunshot/knife murders as the victim would not have felt pain.

The conservative view is that homicides in all the ages have been done without the use of trickery or deceit, i.e no drugging as they were not available in the first place, hence this is the way God intended it to be & it'll be anti-commandment if done differently.

Psst, read as light humor. This topic itself has no right answer.. every solution can be only a lesser evil, but how less would a lesser evil be? Is it not evil nonetheless?

The earth has enough resources for everyones need but not their greed.

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