is it still veg if you raise the chicken yourself? - VeggieBoards
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#1 Old 02-26-2009, 08:22 PM
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on another thread somebody posted a link to this guy, Onisions', youtube. he had some great things to say about being veg and is pretty passionate about it. i asked him why he is not vegan because im sure he knows how bad the dairy and egg industries are. his response was that he raises his own chicken (so im guessing he uses their eggs)...tho that still doesnt cut out the egg that would be in his bread or w/e unless he cooks everything he eats from scratch.



sorry i got a bit off topic there....



anyways what im asking is what is everybodys opinions on eating the eggs that your pet chickens produce, is that in anyway veganish??



im asking because eggs aren't alive until they have been fertilized and i stopped eating eggs because of the conditions the chickens are treated. and im kinda getting myself confused here, so im going to stop typing. lol
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#2 Old 02-26-2009, 08:23 PM
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no but its very vegetarian....
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#3 Old 02-26-2009, 08:40 PM
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It's still an animal product, no matter how kindly it was raised. It's not how the animals are treated, it's the fact that we have no right to use them or take things away from them.
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#4 Old 02-26-2009, 08:50 PM
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yeah, basically, it's vegetarian, not vegan. whether you think it's acceptable or not is an entirely different matter, but if you do and you eat the eggs, you're not a vegan.
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#5 Old 02-26-2009, 09:27 PM
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thats what i thought. i think its kinda gross, i wouldn't eat something that came from my pet...that kinda weirds me out >.<
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#6 Old 02-26-2009, 09:38 PM
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It weirds me out too...

In fact, it weirds me out that people even want to eat something that came from the inside of an animal...when you think about it like that, it's really gross.

but yeah anyway, raising the chicken yourself & eating the eggs I would say is more humane, but not vegan.
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#7 Old 02-26-2009, 09:50 PM
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I am not vegan, only striving to be such, however we buy eggs from a family member. Their eggs are from their cute little fat chickens which are cared very well for. I do not eat eggs right out however they do go into a few things homemade.
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#8 Old 02-27-2009, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Candysmom View Post

I am not vegan, only striving to be such, however we buy eggs from a family member. Their eggs are from their cute little fat chickens which are cared very well for. I do not eat eggs right out however they do go into a few things homemade.



I almos spit water all over my laptop when I read you bought eggs from a family member, good thing I kept reading!
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#9 Old 02-27-2009, 04:22 AM
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I have seen this topic come up here several times. Its not vegan, but it is vegetarian and much better than buying eggs as long as your pet chickens are given space to roam and are not replaced when they are two (its surprising how many people do this)
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#10 Old 02-27-2009, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DgyJff View Post

It's still an animal product, no matter how kindly it was raised. It's not how the animals are treated, it's the fact that we have no right to use them or take things away from them.

*claps*

EXACTLY! I tried explaining this to someone on another board last week and they just couldn't grasp this.
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#11 Old 02-27-2009, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DgyJff View Post

It's still an animal product, no matter how kindly it was raised. It's not how the animals are treated, it's the fact that we have no right to use them or take things away from them.



Why does it matter? A chicken does not care what happens to it's eggs in the slightest. I think most people take their chickens dung out of their coup, do they not have the right to do that either?
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#12 Old 02-27-2009, 07:50 AM
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Why does it matter? A chicken does not care what happens to it's eggs in the slightest. I think most people take their chickens dung out of their coup, do they not have the right to do that either?

I'm fairly sure the vegan reasoning with this is that animals are not ours to use, which means many/most vegans (myself included) don't think that people should own chickens period. Though if someone does have chickens removing the fecal matter is for the health of the chicken, removing the eggs is for the want of the person. Completely different/
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#13 Old 02-27-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Glitterpixie View Post

Why does it matter? A chicken does not care what happens to it's eggs in the slightest. I think most people take their chickens dung out of their coup, do they not have the right to do that either?



Many people have dogs and clean the dogs area of fecal matter, but dont eat them or their puppies! I know before you go, "eggs are not even an animal,or alive", that isn't the point. The point is, if someone chooses to "have a pet" you have the responsibility to see to their health and general well being, not the right to use them as a means of sustenance.
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#14 Old 02-27-2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrilynhawk View Post

I'm fairly sure the vegan reasoning with this is that animals are not ours to use, which means many/most vegans (myself included) don't think that people should own chickens period. Though if someone does have chickens removing the fecal matter is for the health of the chicken, removing the eggs is for the want of the person. Completely different/



So if you spread that removed fecal matter on your garden as fertiliser (as opposed to chucking it away and using an oil based one instead) then that would suddenly make it wrong, while the chicken itself stands totally oblivious to such wrongness? If I took an egg out of the coup and placed it on the ground to rot that would be exceptable whereas eating it would not? I don't eat eggs for various reasons but I struggle to get my head round this sort of mentallity.
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#15 Old 02-27-2009, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PlaybackGuru View Post

Many people have dogs and clean the dogs area of fecal matter, but dont eat them or their puppies!



An egg is an unfeeling box of nutrients a puppy is a live animal with interests, the two are not comparable in this situation. If dogs laid eggs then I would apply the same reasoning to them as I do to chickens.





Quote:
The point is, if someone chooses to "have a pet" you have the responsibility to see to their health and general well being, not the right to use them as a means of sustenance.



Why can they not do both?
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#16 Old 02-27-2009, 08:38 AM
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Utilizing an infertile egg that would be of no use to the chicken does not strike me as an inherently malicious thing to do. However, since the egg is an animal product, using or consuming it is not vegan. The same can be said of using pet feces as fertilizer -- while it may not be malicious, it is not vegan. With that said, while I would neither eat an egg nor utilize pet feces (I don't have a pet), I don't think that doing either would instantly qualify someone as "not vegan," especially if he or she is otherwise completely vegan.
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#17 Old 02-27-2009, 09:49 AM
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It is wrong to use an animal product that causes no harm to the animal but it is not wrong to own an animal? You say it is wrong to own a chicken, does that mean people who have cats, dogs, rabbits, etc are mean? If you have a pet you can not be vegan?



I think using animal poop would be good. Would you mind if someone used human poop? Ignore the "yuck" factor and think about it, why would you really care if someone took your poop? It goes out into the earth to rot, why not put it to use?
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#18 Old 02-27-2009, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Candysmom View Post

It is wrong to use an animal product that causes no harm to the animal but it is not wrong to own an animal? You say it is wrong to own a chicken, does that mean people who have cats, dogs, rabbits, etc are mean? If you have a pet you can not be vegan?



I think using animal poop would be good. Would you mind if someone used human poop? Ignore the "yuck" factor and think about it, why would you really care if someone took your poop? It goes out into the earth to rot, why not put it to use?

With the first few questions - that is not what I meant. Owning rescues or adopted animals in my book is A-ok. However I, along with many vegans, think that in general it's not our place to own another living creature. Owning a rescue (whether it be a chicken, fish, cat, dog, lizard, etc) is one thing because you are giving an animal a home that may otherwise be put to death, it's a loving creature who needs a chance at life. However, owning pets just because "I want one" and resorting to things such as breeders is entirely different. The topic of companion animals is generally a heated one. Some vegans think that animals are not here for our use. Being that if ALL animals that needed homes (sheltered animals, strays etc) were homed that they will still disagree with even responsible breeding. This would phase out using animals as pets entirely.

But on the other side of the fence there are those that feel if by some grace of God there were no more homeless domesticated animals, they would agree with responsible breeding.



But I do believe that is a completely different thread altogether

Also, I think the poop issue is also neither here nor there. There are those who would still consider this using an animal product, and there are those who would say - it's poop, who cares. There are different opinions on this just like everything else.
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#19 Old 02-27-2009, 10:49 AM
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Whether or not it's right or wrong to eat eggs doesn't change the fact that vegans, by definition, do not eat eggs.



It's a simple enough concept.



Which makes it all a bit odd that this topic comes up as often as it does.
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#20 Old 02-27-2009, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

Whether or not it's right or wrong to eat eggs doesn't change the fact that vegans, by definition, do not eat eggs.



It's a simple enough concept.



Which makes it all a bit odd that this topic comes up as often as it does.



Agree.
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#21 Old 02-27-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

Whether or not it's right or wrong to eat eggs doesn't change the fact that vegans, by definition, do not eat eggs.



It's a simple enough concept.



Which makes it all a bit odd that this topic comes up as often as it does.



Agreed.
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#22 Old 02-27-2009, 12:33 PM
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I agree with the other that agree!
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#23 Old 02-27-2009, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Glitterpixie View Post

while the chicken itself stands totally oblivious to such wrongness?

If a catatonic woman were oblivious to a man raping her, would that make it okay? Babies can't remember much of what happens to them before the age of two. Does that make it ok to use them in child porn?



We have the responsibility to refuse to exploit other beings and treat them like commodities regardless of whether they are aware of the harm inherent in what we are doing to them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeezycreezy View Post

Whether or not it's right or wrong to eat eggs doesn't change the fact that vegans, by definition, do not eat eggs.



It's a simple enough concept.



Which makes it all a bit odd that this topic comes up as often as it does.

People question this though, as a dogmatic adherence to the definition, without thinking about why its considered exploitative.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
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#24 Old 02-27-2009, 02:27 PM
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Which makes it all a bit odd that this topic comes up as often as it does.

i think its because a lot of vegans are vegan because of the cruelty that goes on in the world, and eating your own chickens eggs doesnt seem cruel.



Quote:
Utilizing an infertile egg that would be of no use to the chicken does not strike me as an inherently malicious thing to do. However, since the egg is an animal product, using or consuming it is not vegan. The same can be said of using pet feces as fertilizer -- while it may not be malicious, it is not vegan. With that said, while I would neither eat an egg nor utilize pet feces (I don't have a pet), I don't think that doing either would instantly qualify someone as "not vegan," especially if he or she is otherwise completely vegan.



i really like your explanation, eistxist.



Quote:
However, owning pets just because "I want one" and resorting to things such as breeders is entirely different.

i agree with you here. its just in my curious nature to ask, if i were to go to petsmart and buy a rat to keep as a pet, would that not be vegan?

the animals are being used to produce offspring so they can be sold. is this relative to using your own chickens eggs? since both the egg and the offspring, are being created for somebodies personal wants.
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#25 Old 02-27-2009, 03:12 PM
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I talk this over with my fiancee a lot. We are full blown vegan, so we don't eat eggs anyway. But, that isn't the point. I think that if the chickens are raised in an ethical manner then I don't see why you should feel concerned.



It takes a chicken about 3 days to lay an egg. If a person gulps down 3 or 4 of these cholesterol bombs in 5 minutes, then they consumed about two weeks worth of a hens time to produce it. But, if you raise your own chicken, then that just makes it that much more special.
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#26 Old 02-27-2009, 05:41 PM
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i agree with you here. its just in my curious nature to ask, if i were to go to petsmart and buy a rat to keep as a pet, would that not be vegan?

the animals are being used to produce offspring so they can be sold. is this relative to using your own chickens eggs? since both the egg and the offspring, are being created for somebodies personal wants.

Honestly this is one of those questions I can't answer only because I don't know enough about rats in pet stores.
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#27 Old 02-28-2009, 01:20 PM
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There are more chickens in the world than humans. Think this is because of their procreation speed? It's because man raises them up solely for their consumption purposes. It's already been answered here a million times, but EGGS ARE NOT VEGAN. However, IF you find yourself in a situation that means life or death and you have to consume eggs, better that you harvested them yourself.
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#28 Old 02-28-2009, 01:24 PM
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So if you are stranded on a desert island with a chick....wait wrong thread
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#29 Old 02-28-2009, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PlaybackGuru View Post

So if you are stranded on a desert island with a chick....



lol yes that's exactly the circumstance i was talking about! haha
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#30 Old 02-28-2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PlaybackGuru View Post

So if you are stranded on a desert island with a chick....



I suppose some guys would say "depends if the chick is blonde and beautiful".



And what if you are stuck on a desert island with Tom Cruise? I suppose we would all agree that it's okay to cook him on a spit and eat him??? I mean, he's not really animal is he? He's just a.... thingy, right???
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