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#1 Old 12-12-2008, 02:21 AM
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I just really felt the need to vent. I know I really don't post a lot on here, and did wanna make my posts as positive as possible, but I can't help but vent just a little bit.



I really didn't think this was going to be a big deal. I wanted to reduce animal suffering as recently I've come to believe that no living creature should suffer needlessly, and also do something good for my body. Sometimes I wonder if I got over my head in what I wanted to accomplish with this major life choice of mine.



I stopped eating eggs and meat overnight and haven't touched them since and that was 7 months ago. No goodbye meat dinner with a giant steak, nothing. I just woke up and said "I'm not doing this anymore" and stopped eating animal flesh/embryo and at this point am very turned off by the idea of it. I felt that was as giant of a hurdle as you could jump. It took several months for me to do so, but eventually I did eliminate dairy products. Milk was easy, it tastes like ****, but cheese was damn near impossible although I did beat it. Eventually I did learn to live without it, and treasure the special trips I make to whole foods for follow your heart and rice slices for my sandwhiches. I feel guilty that looking at pizza with gooey melted cheese makes me salivate, but I don't give in.



Personal care items...a dreadful area I hate even discussing. I thought veganism was fairly simple, dont eat anything that comes from an animal. How naive could have I been? I've always loved wearing good-smelling colognes, and have recently found that they often contain fats from animals and are also TESTED on animals. My shampoos all have glycerin or other animal no-goodies in there, and my deodorants also contain that, as well as aluminum which I'm really scared of as my grandpa had alzheimers. I switched to a natural deodorant which is ok but to be quite honest it doesn't work all the time.

It sucks that I'm SO aware of all this now, and it hits me in the face every day I get ready. I see the completely cruelty free personal care items and the prices make my heart sink. When you're used to paying a dollar or two for a bottle of shampoo, 10 dollars is kind of a blow.



Worst of all is the rogaine I've been using to keep the hair on my head as I am young and want to keep it as long as I can. I quit using it and within 3 months my hair started falling out rapidly and unlike most it actually was working for me ok, and I'm scared that hair is gone. I went back on it terrified I would lose more hair, but its a struggle for me now that I know what's in it. I feel guilty that I could be shallow enough to put keeping hair on my head over an innocent animals life. Plus the Pfizer company (also recently found this out) have terrible ratings as far as environmental safety are concerned PLUS they animal test. Horrible. I've tried finding vegan minoxodil and that's about as laughable as trying to create a soy filet mignon. Sometimes I debate quitting it and shaving my head.



Little did I know that diet was only a part of the whole vegan picture and just how much you really have to know. Sometimes I wonder if your first year or two of veganism is really just a gigantic learning curve, after which you're still always learning new things and unacceptable products to eat/use. Hell, I thought not eating meat, eggs, or dairy was a huge hurdle to jump, the amount of foods that contain by-products or preservatives derived from animals is staggering, especially ones that are dairy derived.



After 7 months, Ive only found out recently that I cannot drink vitamin water. For a month when I first attempted this as vegan, then vegetarian, I thought veggie shreds were vegan until my little brother came over for breakfast and he wouldnt eat the gigantic tofu scramble I made. Silly me to not read the label and I felt like a total chump that I'd been duped by cheese called veggie shreds that was basically regular cheese, and also contained no vegetables. Meh. I assumed that at friends houses that by peeling all the cheese and meat off the pizza that the crust and sauce would be fine, until I finally tried it one night and got totally sick to my stomach not thinking about all the milk and egg products that could be in the crust, let alone the fact that it could have been cooked on a pan with shortening. Last time I did that.



Worst of all...and get ready to unleash all the pretentious veganism on the world for this grave error as I deserve it, I had assumed that fast food fries were acceptable when I was trapped with no food with nowhere else to eat. I (and yes, ignorant on my part) assumed that fried potatos were fried potatos, and hey, they cooked them separately from the meat products so who cares if I eat fast food fries once in a while. You can buy meat at Giant Eagle and Whole foods and nobody boycotts those establishments, so why boycott McDonalds because they sell burgers when I just want some fried potatos anyways? The part of my brain that thinks started to get the best of me the other day, and I decided to do some research into the fast food chains and made the disgusting discovery that these "fried potatos" weren't even VEGETARIAN. Flavored with beef flavoring? Why, if most of these people are eating meat anyways, would they need fries flavored with it? I'm never eating out again unless its an exclusively vege establishment. And the whole preserving things with milk products baffles me endlessly.

Needless to say, I'll be keeping some potatos at home and making my own fries when the craving strikes from now on.



As far as other things, I've always known gelatin was a no-no. When I think gelatin I think gooey, gelatinous, overly sweet and jiggly ****. Wasn't aware that the chalky altoids I was gleefully munching on last week had those in them. I brush my teeth with **** that has pig fat in it. Its in the gum I chew time to time. I then wash my mouth out with the **** too. Also wasn't aware that pills I take time to time are pressed with gelatin either. I feel like I've been trying so hard at this, my friends think I'm crazy and overly obsessed reading labels and being as obsessive about ingrediants in food as I have been (even so I've still missed ****), and I endured the most annoying thanksgiving of my life this year. So I prepared separate food to eat. Can you not let me enjoy the company of my grandma and aunts when I never see them by refraining from every word coming out of your mouth being a vegetarian joke or some snide comment about whether the gravy is organic or not? I left early.



Sometimes I wonder, does the world hate animals? Animal by-products are in everything!!! I felt like I did an amazing and tremendous thing by cutting meat, dairy, and eggs from my diet (working on honey and some things I eat that contain white sugar too, which I still dont know is really vegan or not it seems like there's conflicting opinions and some vegans still eat honey even though it really does clash with the lifestyle). I really felt that with the effort I put into this that I was being really successful in it and I can feel the difference. My head is clearer, I feel better, dont need as much sleep, my poops are epic and amazing, and overall I just feel healthier than I ever have and can honestly say i'll never eat meat, eggs, or dairy again. I still feel a lot of guilt about all these other things I still use that have animal-derived things in them.



Really to be honest, I felt like I was doing so well and I tried so hard but at this point I just feel like a failure at it and totally lost. Dietary things, that hasn't been so bad but I still have a couple sticking points, and the fact that those sticking points could be an advil here and there or using mousse really just sickens me. There's so many other things I need to change that I dont even know where to start. Things with natural flavors? Stuff labeled flavoring? God its in so much stuff. I dont even feel like I can trust v8 vegetable juice anymore. I find myself being hesitant making homemade tomato soup with the tomato sauce with "natural flavor" and get paranoid that it has some kind of weird animal ingrediant. Its amazing the difference between "prepared black bean" and "organic black bean" means one is cooked with meat and the other isnt. I call food companies obsessively and look things up online all the time. I actually have the peta website with the animal ingrediants list saved in my phone so I can run it by things as I shop and realize I pretty much can't have anything. I must look crazy on the web on my phone walking around looking at the labels of everything. They probably think I'm a secret shopper.



It's already hard enough with as inconvenient as it can be for me to eat sometimes if I dont prepare carefully, which most times I really do, but sometimes I really feel like I dont know where to go and that a package of unflavored nuts from the gas station will have to suffice as a meal. I really desire to live a cruelty-free lifestyle, but at this point feel like Ive failed so hard and don't even know what steps to take first to cut more out or where to even start. I refuse to part with the leather wallet my beloved and passed boyfriend bought me as a gift. I feel thats the only exception I should make yet I have all these other things in my life. Stopped some things though. Yeah, wont be eating out especially fast food ever again even if its something that would seem innocent, like a fried potato thats cooked seperately from the meat. Only trust organic bread and even then check the label. I dont know, sometimes I just wanna tear my hair out over it. Sorry if I've been meandering or unfocused but some of these things really have me down.



Thanks for reading if you took the time



Eric
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#2 Old 12-12-2008, 02:47 AM
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Dude...



Don't seat the small stuff. You're trying you're best and I don't believe that it comes easy to anyone. The good thing is though everytime you find an alternative brand or product you're one step closer to eliminating animal products completely. I'm still in the process as an ovo-vegetarian but as soon as I find egg-free gluten-free bread I'll be one step closer to being completely free.



BTW Glycerin/Glycerol can be from plants and can also be synthetic.
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#3 Old 12-12-2008, 02:58 AM
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You do make some good points and thanks for being easy on me. :-)



It's hard for me to consider that other stuff "small stuff" though. Though I understand fully now that this is a ridonkulously ginormous life change, I do in a way realize that overnighting anything just isn't possible. In some ways, I really just don't feel ready to cut some things out. Though it has nothing to do with diet, I still smoke. I've attempted quitting 3 or 4 times just this autumn alone, doing well for 1-3 weeks, then back off, then back on the wagon a couple, then off. Being that I DJ and if I'm not, am at some type of electronic music event at least a few times a month makes it all the harder. I just wish I didn't feel like I was constantly struggling with things.



Its almost like I'm in college working on my doctorate to just live my life.



And I am aware that sometimes that stuff can be synthetic, its hard to know unless you actually call the company though and I feel like I do too much of that beyond what's normal already. hahaha Really I get burned up because I don't feel I should have to. My opinion is that if its vegan, everybody can eat it, if its not, its making it nearly impossible for a whole group of people to eat conveniently. It sucks.



Oh and by the way Ezekiels (sp?) Sprouted Whole grain bread is amazing. No gluten, no egg, no milk, hell, no flour. Its amazing. Gotta toast it though, or else its sorta crumbly. :-)
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#4 Old 12-12-2008, 07:28 AM
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It's the vegan's plight! And there's only so much one can do without moving into the forest and living off the land.



As for personal care items, many run-of-the-mill/local things don't test on animals. It's usually printed right by the address on the back for a quick look. But even so, those products probably use ingredients that have been tested on animals previously and marked as 'safe.' I don't want to make it sound hopeless, it's just the way it is really
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#5 Old 12-12-2008, 07:58 AM
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I know it's hard in the animal-based world we live in but like the others said, its one step at a time. I'm very new at this too and it can be a little frustrating at times but then you come across an amazing product making all that research worthwhile. Then you move on to the next thing , and so on. Try not to be so hard on yourself, you are doing great!!
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#6 Old 12-12-2008, 09:14 AM
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its frustrating that there are animals products in so many things, but at the same time if they are killing animals at least they seem to be using every part of the poor things, since they show up almost everywhere. But these by products are cheap and easily available because of the meat and dairy industry, so you need to focus on boycotting that, because that what drives the machine. If there wasn't that industry, then all the things that byproducts show up in would find alternatives because those things would now be cheaper.



its not a purity contest. Its a boycott, a living philosophical statement, and a desire to live as cruelty free as possible. There is no such thing as a 100% vegan life, as humans we do leave an impact on animals by our very existence. Do as much as you can without tormenting yourself.





and the veggie cheese thing ticks me off too. I think most of us have gotten caught by that one at least once.
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#7 Old 12-12-2008, 10:41 AM
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Vegans plight indeed! Oh and what a plight this is. I think part of my problem is that I'm a perfectionist (which is why I either give up or just do things half-assed because I can't do them how I want to) so it bothers me endlessly about this stuff.



And I see what you mean about the "ingredients within the ingredients cstadt." Like the giant eagle brand whole wheat buns seemed safe to me, apart from the sugar and honey I knew were already in there which I haven't eliminated quite yet. Then there's molasses in it, which I come to find is usually made with animal lard to keep it from bubbling. So I quit buying that, and feel a little cornered with the 5 dollar a loaf Ezikiels (I just cannot spell this hahaha) bread I buy now since it seems to be the only completely safe brand, though it is good stuff.



And what can I say Coastalveg I beat myself up over the worst ****. You're right I need to quit focusing on what I'm not doing right yet and focus on what I am doing good. I guess I'm really not doing that awful, but there's just so much to learn and it really can be quite overwhelming and frustrating. Reading the threads about what to do with non-vegan items from Christmas really made me think "Wow! Im such a baby at this still!"



It only makes me think of when I'm in the bathroom my mom has this honey and milk handsoap (Don't hate, I had a pretty rough year and had to move home for a short spell) and I occasionally catch myself using it. Some days I'm like no not doin' it, and what do I grab? A bar of soap. hahaha And reading over the one girls thread about sleeping over her boyfriends and him not having vegan soap....wow...I'm just not that hardcore yet.



I've even read stuff on whether its acceptable or not to swallow a mans semen who isn't vegan if you're doing oral...that's just totally outrageous. You really shouldn't be doing that anyways if you don't know them that well! hahaha. I mean ****, how far can you take this?



I'm really happy you guys have been nice to me. I've watched interviews with the Skinny ***** authors and man can they be pompous. They almost seem to go way beyond vegan at times and make my efforts feel futile, I finally broke down and read their book and was like gadzooks! these chicks are crazy! Sorry, when I wake up I like a cup of coffee with soymilk I cant see myself ever cutting that out. My little brother was really surprised that I was able to drop meat and eggs at the drop of a hat and (despite the veggie shreds) most dairy too. He said he was really shocked that I was able to stick with it with no ****ups dropping so much so quick. So maybe it was meant to be. :-)



And wow thats a great way to look at it. Just go straight to the source by boycotting the food, and let the trickle down effect happen (hopefully someday it really does!). My brother said the same thing, that at least they aren't wasting anything. Doesn't really make it that much better though. That's not to say that I'm going to stop there, as eliminating as much as possible is the goal. I really sometime when I have time want to look into using essential oils instead of cologne or deodorant (typically Im not a stinky person anyways), and the other things like hair care and moisturizer and stuff. I'm a dude, so I really dont need a boatload of personal care items. Maybe when I'm finally ready it won't really be all that bad.



Again thanks for your input guys. I'm gonna try to start posting here more. Im just really busy I dont have a lot of time to do a lot of messageboarding but you guys were a real help with this stuff.
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#8 Old 12-12-2008, 11:07 AM
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sounds like your heart is totally in the right place, its just that this kind of lifestyle can quickly evolve into an obsession, and not only is that no healthy, it doesnt help any animals. You are better off convincing ten people to eat less animals products as you are spending extreme effort trying to find vegan soap. In a non vegan world you have to look at the big picture and focus your efforts on what is really going to make an impact.



you can spend all day finding a non animal tested product, spend a boatload on it, but the reason they probably didn't have to test that product was because of an animal test 50 years ago showing that product to be safe. And how in the world would you ever know that. So its totally cool to seek out products that arent' currently testing, but once you acknowledge that nearly everything has the taint of cruelty, its much easier to refocus on making a lifestyle that is easy and that you can live with.



I have come to the conclusion over the years that if more people focused on activism and education rather than if they can wash their hands somewhere, or how vegan their sugar is, that at the very least we can improve the living conditions of animals quicker, and hopefully create the first cracks on a world built on the suffering of animals.
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#9 Old 12-12-2008, 11:08 AM
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It looks like you've been trying to do too much too soon, and beating yourself up for not knowing things you seem to think you should have known all along! Every long term vegan for whom lots of this is now second nature, was once where you are now.



Just a little advice, if you don't mind: don't pay as much attention to what the Skinny *****es, or anyone else, think or say about what you should be doing. You know as much about why its good to be vegan as anyone else, so just listen to yourself about things like using other people's soaps for example. Work on the basics, and give yourself time to answer your own questions about the finer details.

www.thesaucyvegan.com
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#10 Old 12-12-2008, 12:50 PM
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I didn't get through the whole epic, but there's something about your post that strikes me as a little too obsessive about things. Slow down, or you're going to burn out. There's no such thing as a perfect vegan - even the tires (bike or car) we drive on have animal products in them (I think). For many people saying, "just do the best you can," seems to give them "permission" to start eating chicken if they are really hungry; for you, I think "just do the best you can" would probably put you back to a mentally healthier learning curve. It would be better to stay a well-meaning but mildly imperfect vegan (you can still be vegan and not be 100% perfect - while it's good to be aware of what you're doing, if you drank some vitamin water and it had the wrong kind of vitamin D in it or whatever, it's not really a vegan disaster) than it would be to give up because it's too overwhelming to be perfect!



Find health food store, non-animal tested hair products - they're not hard to come by. In my opinion, go ahead and use a generic brand of minoxidil if you must. I think guys look fine without hair and I don't like potential side effects or supporting pharmaceuticals, but I think with drugs if there isn't a substitute, you can probably be more lax (something like premarin would be an exception - never o.k.) Something like advil is no longer tested on animals for its initial use - it's been on the market for a long time. I'd tend to find a generic if you need it though - I think you may not be directly supporting a company that animal-tested (or you may be, it's an individual case). With beauty products you can always find a reasonable substitute, with pharmaceuticals, not so much. I think vegans should generally avoid supporting pharmaceuticals, but it's not always feasible. Just because something was tested on animals does not mean that it had to be.



Most importantly: I think since your goal is to reduce animal suffering you will do far more by becoming an activist than by stressing so much over the minutia of a personal boycott.

"If you want to know where you would have stood on slavery before the civil war, don't look at where you stand on slavery today, look at where you stand on animal rights." - Paul Watson.

 

Every animal you eat
was running for her life

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#11 Old 12-12-2008, 01:16 PM
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As everyone else has said, there's no such thing as a perfect vegan. It's an ongoing process and you just have to keep learning and trying to be more vegan than you were yesterday. You also have to decide what to just let slide. I still eat the veggie shreds occasionally even though I know they're not vegan. At least it's a better choice than real cheese and it's a step in the right direction and I don't have to drive 10 miles to get it. It's a concession that I've made and one of the reasons that I don't wear the vegan label yet. You might not want to let that one slide but maybe there's something else that you're not ready to worry about yet. As far as french fries go, I love them, and you can pry them out of my cold, dead, (greasy, salty) hands. McDonalds fries aren't vegetarian but there's plenty of vegan fries to be found in the fast food universe (my favorite is In-n-Out but there aren't many of those outside of Southern California so that probably doesn't help you much). Most fast food places list their ingredients online nowadays so just do a little homework and I bet you can find some vegan fries near you.
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#12 Old 12-17-2008, 04:17 AM
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Again thanks guys. Your replies have been pretty comforting but its really hard to not be overly concerned about it. Maybe doing some type of activism would be good for me. I've passed tons of fliers out for shows I've played at, I'm sure its not much different right? :-)



And you know what, screw fast food. Screw restaraunts. I dont need them, I'll just make everything myself. I'll drink water, juice, and soymilk. Hell sometimes I dont even trust that. However home made fries made with real potatoes are pretty damn good I never tried it before but it feels good to actually peel and cut them yourself and have a delicious fried treat when you're all done.
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#13 Old 12-18-2008, 04:11 AM
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EricBliss...I just wanted to say that I think that you are doing wonderfully well, though you need not stress over it so much...

I mean...just try to live your life within your principles, and everything should work out. You've boycotted the dairy/meat/fish industry, and that is what, as someone else on this thread said "fuels the crank"...or something to that affect.



But yeah, I just wanted to say that good luck, and the veggie shreds thing got me too. I thought about calling and complaining to them, but I guess I don't have the heart to be all butt-hurt about it, and I haven't even tried those shreds yet.



Peace out!
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#14 Old 12-18-2008, 04:45 AM
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Wow. I was totally in your place a couple years ago. I completely understand. Somedays it really does seem like there are animal products in everything. And, well, there are. Even the concrete we walk on and the cars we drive in contain animal products. There's no avoiding. But that's not the point anyway, is it. We aren't vegan because we love reading labels and restricting ourselves. We are trying to reduce animal suffering, and that's something that can be done in many different ways.



For sure, eating a vegan diet is the number one thing you can do to reduce animal suffering. Way to go for being vegan and for caring so much that you're stressed and feeling overwhelmed. I wish there were more people in the world like you.



Now stop.



Do what you can, but stop stressing and worrying about the little things you can't avoid. You can even continue to use Rogaine and mainstream deoderants if you want. Wait - don't yell at me yet... think about it for a minute. If you go out and do 2 hours of vegan outreach, or talk to your friends, and get one person to go vegan for one month, you will have prevented more animal suffering than you would have by not buying a deoderant stick.



Think of it like carbon offsetting. If keeping your hair is what will keep you going right now and have the energy to do vegan outreach, then go ahead and use the taboo products, and do an extra hour of activism to make up for it. In a couple months or years when everything is more normal to you and requires less effort you can reevalutate the products you use.



I'm starting to ramble a bit here, but I'll make this my last point. Keep in mind what others think of us. If your friends see that you will never eat in non vegan restaurants, won't wash your hands with their soap, and are smelly all the time, it will make veganism seem hard to them. We want to show the world how easy it can be to reduce animal suffering, so they'll start to make changes. If we come off as extremists and ascetics then it's unlikely anyone will want to listen to us. But if we make our way of living seem easily attainable, some of our friends may give it a try.
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#15 Old 12-18-2008, 04:43 PM
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http://www.makeupyourownmind.co.uk/v...ian-fries.html



^ this site says mcd's fries are veggie, I am confused now
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#16 Old 12-18-2008, 04:55 PM
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I feel you're pain.
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#17 Old 12-18-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosybutterfly View Post

http://www.makeupyourownmind.co.uk/v...ian-fries.html



^ this site says mcd's fries are veggie, I am confused now



I am assuming the OP is from the US where they are not.
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#18 Old 12-19-2008, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline G. View Post

Wow. I was totally in your place a couple years ago. I completely understand. Somedays it really does seem like there are animal products in everything. And, well, there are. Even the concrete we walk on and the cars we drive in contain animal products. There's no avoiding. But that's not the point anyway, is it. We aren't vegan because we love reading labels and restricting ourselves. We are trying to reduce animal suffering, and that's something that can be done in many different ways.



For sure, eating a vegan diet is the number one thing you can do to reduce animal suffering. Way to go for being vegan and for caring so much that you're stressed and feeling overwhelmed. I wish there were more people in the world like you.



Now stop.



Do what you can, but stop stressing and worrying about the little things you can't avoid. You can even continue to use Rogaine and mainstream deoderants if you want. Wait - don't yell at me yet... think about it for a minute. If you go out and do 2 hours of vegan outreach, or talk to your friends, and get one person to go vegan for one month, you will have prevented more animal suffering than you would have by not buying a deoderant stick.



Think of it like carbon offsetting. If keeping your hair is what will keep you going right now and have the energy to do vegan outreach, then go ahead and use the taboo products, and do an extra hour of activism to make up for it. In a couple months or years when everything is more normal to you and requires less effort you can reevalutate the products you use.



I'm starting to ramble a bit here, but I'll make this my last point. Keep in mind what others think of us. If your friends see that you will never eat in non vegan restaurants, won't wash your hands with their soap, and are smelly all the time, it will make veganism seem hard to them. We want to show the world how easy it can be to reduce animal suffering, so they'll start to make changes. If we come off as extremists and ascetics then it's unlikely anyone will want to listen to us. But if we make our way of living seem easily attainable, some of our friends may give it a try.



This is a another really really good one. Thank you. :-)



So I shouldn't feel bad about giving up the Tom's beer stick (its this hops and barley deodorant)? Good! I went on a date with somebody one night on a day I wasn't exactly eating the cleanest and I did end up getting BO and that was before I even got to the party!



I really need to hear more stuff like this. Badly. Like, really badly. Anything I jump into I get really obsessive about...I don't know why I do it. Working out, it got to the point where I got what they call "overtraining syndrome" and started out doing it thin, but overdid it so badly that I just got skinnier and didnt really gain any muscle. Even my DJing, when I shop for tracks to use I pour over all of them and anazlye them intently only to buy 30 of them and maybe end up using 5 of them. Most relationships I get into start sucking after 6 months, I'll take one bad mood or snippy attitude as a sign that they wanna leave me forever. Maybe I just have issues. hahaha



I'd LOVE to do vegan outreach though! That sounds so much better than the little rut I'm in now, one of my best friends says I'm turning into a weird vegan nightmare who's just a goofy cranky hippy all the time that "hates food". More information on what exactly I could do would be greatly appreciated. I really think chaneling this in a more healthy and productive direction will really make the small stuff more easy for me to swallow. You guys are totally right, obsessing over this stuff is silly. However I'll probably continue to do it this way if I don't focus on something else.



Sometimes I think having a food party or something would be cool. Doing some work for animal activism would be great, but I'm a huge fan of food and maybe should focus on that aspect of it too. Just serve the food and ask what they think of it. My friend Jamie will never ever give up meat and constantly says how great it is and always busts my balls for it.



One day when making breakfast, I decide to make him a ginormous cruelty free breakfast burrito too. Wheat wrap, scrambled tofu with tumeric, healthy handful of TVP, sea salt, garlic, pepper, healthy dash of parsley, and broccoli, red peppers, gimme lean sausage, tomatoes, onions and mushrooms all sauteed in earth balance butter and olive oil with follow your heart cheddar and pepper jack made into a thick cheezy sauce with just a touch of soy milk in the pan to liquefy it a bit. He was blown away by how amazing it tasted! I think pulling more fun little "tricks" like that would be fun. Maybe I could bake some vegan brownies to bring to friends houses.



Hell its already worked on my mom. She baked vegan pumpkin pie that was amazing for thanksgiving this year and made some incredible vegan spinach balls (my favorite!) for me to munch on during black thursday week. Reaching out through food could be the ticket! :-D
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#19 Old 12-19-2008, 05:28 AM
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Reaching out through food could be the ticket! :-D

That's the spirit! Vegan Cupcake Activism!
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#20 Old 12-19-2008, 06:21 AM
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That's the spirit! Vegan Cupcake Activism!



lol, exactly.
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#21 Old 12-19-2008, 04:29 PM
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I've just started going vegan after several years as a vegetarian, and it is just as hard as you all say it is. It's especially hard to be in a family and have to prepare meals for everyone. (And the holidays are really hard.) I am happy to have hummous with tomatoes and soft burritos for dinner, for example, or a cup of lentil soup and some fruit. But the kids want more, and often chicken (I am sorry to admit that I have cooked it for them for years. On my behalf, I will say that they've grown up in Europe until last year where I've always heard that they farming methods are much more humane. A poor excuse, I know). In any case, who has found easy vegan meals that are easy and popular with kids? I talk to them about my lifestyle choice, (they are pre-teen and young teens), but don't feel it is fair to force my veganism on them. I also know what you mean about the animal products found in cosmetics and toiletries, and the animal-friendly ones are much more expensive, which isn't fair. Is there a comprehensive list somewhere with all of the products that are safe to use?
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#22 Old 12-21-2008, 02:05 AM
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I think part of my problem is that I'm a perfectionist



There is one word too much in the quoted sentence. It's the word "part". Remove it and you've summed up perfectly your dilemma.



Perfectionists forget one thing. And that is that aiming for perfection is already a flaw, because the human condition does not allow for perfection. (Were you brought up in a Christian environment? Christians are often brainwashed into thinking they must be perfect or else they will go to hell or worse.)



You are doing just fine. Sometimes the reality of the world comes up as a wall in front of us, and there's nothing we can do about it. Like if one day, you have a terrible disease and you take medicine that has been tested on animals because it's not your fault that the law forces pharmaceutical companies to test.



You don't need rubbish like vitamin water and the likes. You've been manipulated by clever marketing lies into thinking that you cannot get enough vitamins from your food. Eat loads of veggies and fruits and you will get all the vitamins you require without having to buy junk in a bottle. And you will also be reducing your ecological footprint which is an added bonus.



But there is one thing that struck me in your first posts (I did not read all the posts in the thread yet), and that is that you still seem to have a reliance on already-processed foods. These are unnecessary, unecological and usually unhealthy. Take lots of time to learn how to cook fantastic, easy and tasty food and you will go a long way to avoiding hidden stuff like getaline and all sorts of weird preservatives.
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#23 Old 12-21-2008, 10:36 AM
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Again thanks guys. Your replies have been pretty comforting but its really hard to not be overly concerned about it. Maybe doing some type of activism would be good for me. I've passed tons of fliers out for shows I've played at, I'm sure its not much different right? :-)



And you know what, screw fast food. Screw restaraunts. I dont need them, I'll just make everything myself. I'll drink water, juice, and soymilk. Hell sometimes I dont even trust that. However home made fries made with real potatoes are pretty damn good I never tried it before but it feels good to actually peel and cut them yourself and have a delicious fried treat when you're all done.



Baked fries are really good too, FYI. Spray them with a little oil, sprinkle with garlic, and mmm. Potatoes are amazing.
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